Banks warned to prepare for Euro Break-up

[slbenficacoach]

Not saying it is the right thing to do... But if they don't do it they will get screwed eventually. If it's supposed to be a family richer countries should pay more. And the countries in debt have always been europe's "poor relatives" just wait when it affects Italy and then Spain, if it gets to France it's the end. That mentality won't get them alot.

Furthermore, this is a crisis for some reason. It doesn't mean EVERY country in debt screwed their economies up and threw it out to the streets, weaker economies tend to have more difficulties, this seems evident for me.

 

[ajt09]

Italy is definately up **** creek. It's borrowing costs have reached 8%, has a debt of 1.9% trillion euros which is like 120% of economic output. The also seem to think they'll have the situation under control by 2013. Which is unlikely as they'll need to keep borrowing and borrowing.

And Frances AAA credit rating is to be downgraded within 10 days.

It's going to be chaos. Especially if countries exit the Euro disorgansied

 

[Joel`]

Not saying it is the right thing to do... But if they don't do it they will get screwed eventually. If it's supposed to be a family richer countries should pay more. And the countries in debt have always been europe's "poor relatives" just wait when it affects Italy and then Spain, if it gets to France it's the end. That mentality won't get them alot.

Furthermore, this is a crisis for some reason. It doesn't mean EVERY country in debt screwed their economies up and threw it out to the streets, weaker economies tend to have more difficulties, this seems evident for me.

You're getting bailouts, and probably going to get Eurobonds, be grateful. Purchasing your debt achieves nothing apart from sparing you austerity while imposing it on others. Just because we're richer doesn't mean we can afford it.

It already does affect every EU country severely, Italy has already been taken by debt and Spain is called to go next. France and Germany won't fail in the same way Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland have, but their economy is inherently reliant on the Eurozone, but good luck convincing the German, French and probably British taxpayer that they should buy out your failure when they're already bailing out countries left right and centre.

 

[slbenficacoach]

It doesn't mean you can afford it yes, but let us look on to germany's case too, they pay us to buy their products, that's the catch, as you know in this world, specially economics and politics, NOBODY gives anything to anybody, nothing is free, everything has a catch, the money the IMF loans out, they are not gifts, they are very, very good business to many people in the banking sector, the bad part is that the people that have to pay up for the politicians mistakes.
And as I said before this is a crisis for some reason, countries don't just screw up, it's not that simple, there are weaker economies and stronger economies, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, are in the basis of the EU and if the basis fall, all else starts to crumble too. The domino again.

 

[ajt09]

So......I'm with Barclays, and they have god knows how many millions worth of Eurobonds. How will customers be affected by banks bailing out the Euro? I'm guessing it'll be things like much tighter restrictions on things like borrowing etc?

 

[Joel`]

It doesn't mean you can afford it yes, but let us look on to germany's case too, they pay us to buy their products, that's the catch, as you know in this world, specially economics and politics, NOBODY gives anything to anybody, nothing is free, everything has a catch, the money the IMF loans out, they are not gifts, they are very, very good business to many people in the banking sector, the bad part is that the people that have to pay up for the politicians mistakes.
And as I said before this is a crisis for some reason, countries don't just screw up, it's not that simple, there are weaker economies and stronger economies, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, are in the basis of the EU and if the basis fall, all else starts to crumble too. The domino again.

There is a DEBT crisis for a reason, because countries allowed them to build up. Greece are in crisis, not because it's a 'weak' economy, but because they had stupidly low taxes, took out short term bonds and had huge, unsustainable government spending. Then when recession hit, they could no longer afford the spending, their bonds were expiring because of their short term nature, meaning they had to take out new, higher yield bonds to pay the old bond, which is obviously going to blow up in their face (As we've seen). Ireland is in so much trouble, not because it is a 'weak' economy but because when it joined the EU it experienced huge, unsustainable growth, where demand outstripped their supply causing them to suffer high inflation, and being in the EU they had no control over their monetary policy to calm the growth and inflation, along with trying to sustain a housing bubble to maintain the growth, when recession hit them it hit them hard, they have hundreds of thousands of empty houses and the government is out of money. Although I don't know the specifics of Portugal, I'm fairly certain that you're not just a poor casualty of a 'crisis', and deserve all the sympathy of the bigger nations, and there's almost certainly some sort of mismanagement of the economy through the false belief that the world was going to keep the good times going forever.

And we're bailing you out because we need the EU to stay together, be grateful you're getting bailouts etc. like I said, but we shouldn't and can't afford to buy your debt.

 

[GodCubed]

So......I'm with Barclays, and they have god knows how many millions worth of Eurobonds. How will customers be affected by banks bailing out the Euro? I'm guessing it'll be things like much tighter restrictions on things like borrowing etc?

Imma going to be taking all my money out of the bank just in c- wait, I'm a student, I have no money.

Can all you old people stop ******* up us young peoples' futures kthx.

 

[slbenficacoach]

I didn't say we were just the victims of a crisis, but don't think people here have been living above their possibilities, on the contrary, our problem came from politicians that wanted to make a highway in each square of land, that wanted to make damps here there, unused tunnels and several other stuff, spend spend spend. But we didn't hide information like Greece did (altough Madeira hid debt from continental Portugal's goverment) . I just can't bear the "you're in debt cause you're lazy" argument.

Grateful? Actually I don't care, we are not like Greece, we don't have strikes every week and break everything, since the IMF came here I think we had one or two strikes.

 

[Joel`]

I didn't say we were just the victims of a crisis, but don't think people here have been living above their possibilities, on the contrary, our problem came from politicians that wanted to make a highway in each square of land, that wanted to make damps here there, unused tunnels and several other stuff, spend spend spend. But we didn't hide information like Greece did (altough Madeira hid debt from continental Portugal's goverment) . I just can't bear the "you're in debt cause you're lazy" argument.

Grateful? Actually I don't care, we are not like Greece, we don't have strikes every week and break everything, since the IMF came here I think we had one or two strikes.

I never said it was the people's fault. No one has said "You're in debt because you're lazy".

You're not grateful for bailouts that saved your economy from despair? If that's the attitude, I totally see why we should find the hundreds of billions to buy your debt, the gratitude is amazing.

 

[slbenficacoach]

Oh no I am not, but I am one person, I do not represent Portugal as a whole, nor Greece, or any other country whatsoever, I do not care because . Nobody GIVES , it's not a gift, they are often good business plans.
Remember the Marshall plan? Why did americans help europe? Because of our lovely eyes? Of course not. Some american president said "Nobody pays lunches to anybody" (unsure on which was it, Roosevelt perhaps)

 

[Joel`]

Oh no I am not, but I am one person, I do not represent Portugal as a whole, nor Greece, or any other country whatsoever, I do not care because . Nobody GIVES , it's not a gift, they are often good business plans.
Remember the Marshall plan? Why did americans help europe? Because of our lovely eyes? Of course not. Some american president said "Nobody pays lunches to anybody" (unsure on which was it, Roosevelt perhaps)

Do you know why your loan repayments are so high? Because investors don't think you'll be able to pay your debts back. That hardly sounds like the soundest business plan, does it? We're BAILING YOU OUT, not loaning you money. If you want to play your chances with the market and businessmen, then you'll disagree with any sort of Euro intervention in your country, go to the markets, loan at ever higher interest rates (Because that is what a business wants), and then come back in 2 years when your country makes Greece look like a bed of roses.

You don't care that we gave you billions, that we're taking your risk in with us in Eurobonds, forcing our loan repayments up, that our banks are completely wiping large chunks of your debt? You're right, nothing is free, there's an opportunity cost, and trust me we'd much rather be taking care of our own domestic issues with that money than yours, and yet you don't even care? Awesome.

 

[slbenficacoach]

I know that. And the fact that the markets don't think we'll play it back is legitimate. But the fact that other countries are helping us and Greece, is because they NEED to do it, not because they care, you think that in politics, economics, people CARE? I would say that is quite innocent, that is why I don't care nor I am grateful, it's the pyramid, the basis falls, the upper part goes down..

As for the 2nd paragraph, ramble on.

 

[Irish Scouse]

Let the Germans have control!

Or the Irish, we're doing pretty good, right?

 

[ajt09]

Imma going to be taking all my money out of the bank just in c- wait, I'm a student, I have no money.

Can all you old people stop ******* up us young peoples' futures kthx.

If it wasn't for use oldies you'd be speaking German

 

[Joel`]

If it wasn't for use oldies you'd be speaking German

Oh come on now, we might rip on you, but you weren't the right age for war.

They didn't let pensioners fight in WW2 did they?

 

[ajt09]

Oh come on now, we might rip on you, but you weren't the right age for war.

They didn't let pensioners fight in WW2 did they?

Was still eligible for the home guard. Aye those were the days. Balloons over parliament, all me favourite pubs blown away. Terrible times they were. Back in those days.......

 

[Raphael.]

Honestly this might very well be Angela Merkels' fault, that nothern european mentality,"all in debt countries are lazy bums that do not work and deserve to suffer and pay immense taxes". This could probably be avoided if the European Central Bank bought the debt, it would be quite like the US, the richer states pay the poorer states and the system goes on. If this happens, and many countries cease to pay, Germany goes down too, it's a domino effect.

And Sarkozy is an embarassement to France, he looks Merkel's lap dog.

Gonna stick my 2p's in and probs be hounded down on this but here goes.

I don't agree with this ... The stronger Euro countries have been bailing out the Greece's, the Portugals the Italy's (Heck I'm Italian) for a while now, and I think its time to say enough is enough ... heck if Britain is in the *****, were not exactly in the right state to be bailing out money ... plus its the countries themselves that have royally ****** themselves over, Germany etc, should not be forced to pay for this mess.

*Cue Joel` or someone with far greater economical words in the brain to wipe me of the floor* Take it away

 

[W4FC B3N]

I've always said, throughout the whole saga; Print off enough money to pay off our debts, I've seen them machines spit notes out, break away from the EU and **** the economy. I wish it could just be that simple though

**** it.. I'm emigrating the Australia!

 

[Joel`]

Gonna stick my 2p's in and probs be hounded down on this but here goes.

I don't agree with this ... The stronger Euro countries have been bailing out the Greece's, the Portugals the Italy's (Heck I'm Italian) for a while now, and I think its time to say enough is enough ... heck if Britain is in the *****, were not exactly in the right state to be bailing out money ... plus its the countries themselves that have royally ****** themselves over, Germany etc, should not be forced to pay for this mess.

*Cue Joel` or someone with far greater economical words in the brain to wipe me of the floor* Take it away

The problem is if Greece goes down they're going to take the whole Eurozone with them. Hence why Greece is currently Merkel's *****. We need to take action to help them, but they need to do something to help themselves, which is why every bailout forces extreme austerity measures to go through to receive it.

 

[Chaz Sexington]

We're not exactly in the best state to be lending money out

I know.

Poor Germans. They've spent the past few years practically bailing out every European country that has got into a mite of trouble, and it seems in vain.

Aye, but they took that risk.

Italy is definately up **** creek. It's borrowing costs have reached 8%, has a debt of 1.9% trillion euros which is like 120% of economic output. The also seem to think they'll have the situation under control by 2013. Which is unlikely as they'll need to keep borrowing and borrowing.

And Frances AAA credit rating is to be downgraded within 10 days.

It's going to be chaos. Especially if countries exit the Euro disorgansied

Moody's, S&P and Fitch are all part of the problem though. They have been done in for lying about credit ratings and were intrinsic to the current economic climate. They dictate credit ratings so it benefits them, not what actually is true.

The problem is if Greece goes down they're going to take the whole Eurozone with them. Hence why Greece is currently Merkel's *****. We need to take action to help them, but they need to do something to help themselves, which is why every bailout forces extreme austerity measures to go through to receive it.

AFAIK, we know they will collapse anyway.