Can't sign a decent player?
Most people have probably forgotten that many media outlets (and a lot of numpty fans) were convinced that Fernando Torres would never adjust to the English league - and even if he did, he wasn't a 'natural goal scorer'. Alonso, Reina, Garcia, Benny, Mash, Agger, Skrtel, Crouch, Arbeloa - not decent players then?
Keane - fair point. We paid too much for him, we played him loads and he just wasn't right. We lost about 2.5 million when we sold him back to Spurs. Mind you, that's not too far off how much it would cost to loan him for that amount of time.
QUOTE]
Now you lost 9million on keane.
Garcia--> rafa sold him, why on earth i ask myself quite regulary.
Crouch--> another one, why does he sell crouch then complain about lack of strikers.
Bellamy--> i think deserves a mention. same as crouch
Arbelo--> sold for 4million, i rest my case on rafas recruitment.
Benny- i take you mean yossi. very good player. same as other 3 players you have mentioned.
so like every manager there has been plau and negatives. but why has he sold these players.
Benitez rules out panic signings
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I agree with pretty much everything you have said apart from.
- Vorinin is ****, he was **** when Liverpool bought him, Rafa only signed him to have an international striker on his bench. I mean what a failed idea!
- As for Babel, yes he was a promising young striker, but was not worth the £15M+ we paid for him, however with over 30 caps under his belt at only 22 for Holland, he cannot be called ****.
Oh and Dossena is beast, maybe playing a little above his level but him playing for us has made him an Italy first team player. As for Degen, yeah he's really bad but he was free so we can't complain.
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Right! 
I'll join in . Crouch wanted first team football which he wouldn't get. Bellamy- not sure why he was sold. Garcia- was aging,yes he was a great player,but he was a make weight to get Torres.
Like said above,anyone who jumps on the bandwagon and calls Lucas poo,should watch more liverpool matches,my only beef with him is that he is TOO defensive,and dosen't take charge,and control the game. Also,he is needlessly wreckless from time to time.Fletcher has been said to be much better this year, yet everyone seems to hate Lucas.
I'll join in . Crouch wanted first team football which he wouldn't get. Bellamy- not sure why he was sold. Garcia- was aging,yes he was a great player,but he was a make weight to get Torres. Like said above,anyone who jumps on the bandwagon and calls Lucas poo,should watch more liverpool matches,my only beef with him is that he is TOO defensive,and dosen't take charge,and control the game. Also,he is needlessly wreckless from time to time.Fletcher has been said to be much better this year, yet everyone seems to hate Lucas.
A lot of the money 'owed' for Keane was performance related. Overall loss works out to 2.5 million (plus wages and fees of course), unless one applies a different criteria for the fee Liverpool paid to the one Spurs paid when buying him back...
Fundamental thing to remember when considering Rafa's recruitment policy and transfer dealing is that therehas been 'only' c.12 - 16 million every summer as 'new' money (that includes wages and fees according to our new Chief Exec - I'm sure we must have slipped him a truth drug). If he wants to spend more, he has to sell. And we're not even sure whether or not he actually gets all of that money back again to reinvest in the side and we know for sure that the budget gets knocked down if we give new contracts to existing players (like we did for several last summer)...
Crazy, crazy stuff going on behind the scenes at our club - bit like Taggart telling you guys that he's got the Ronaldo money to spend, only for the Glazers to let slip that it's only available if you take out another overdraft at the bank.
Garcia was sold at 30 and the money essentially reinvested in a 'younger' model -Yossi. Love little Luis to bits, but if you compare him and Benny, Benny is a far more consistent player even if he fluffs the big moment a little more frequently than Garcia did.
Crouch hit the last year of his contract and said he wanted to move to play more regular first team football to keep his place in the England side. Sold for a profit - and paid a substantial chunk for Johnson in the end...
Bellamy was sold for a profit and I think the big thing behind his move was the way he took a golf club to a team-mate. Money also went towards paying for Torres.
Arbeloa was in the last year of his contract and made no secret about the fact that he'd be going to Real Madrid no mater what. 4 million isn't a bad price in those circumstances (although I think it will be higher with add-ons).
Rafa has made massive fundamental mistakes when operating in the transfer market and he has been very very poor tactically this season. This is the reasons why i wouldn't entrust him with another penny of Liverpool's money.
Lets start with transfers and players:
In 5 years he has signed over 120 players and spent near £250 MILLION in transfer fees on these players. Out of these 120 player i can count on 1 hand those that have been a success at Liverpool. - Torres, Benayoun, Alonso, Macherano, Reiner (Sorry for poor spelling).
Aqulani has been unused and injured. This suggests he is either a poor player or Rafa is again poorly managing someone.
Johnson thinks he is a right winger - i can imagine how many times he will be exploited in the world cup this year.
There is lots of dead wood in the current Liverpool squad.
-Lucas would not cut it in most Championship team - i honestly do not know what he brings to Liverpool - he lacks any sort of quality in any area of his game accept running around like an idiot the entire game.
- Skerel (spelling) hasn't been the same since he was tore apart by downing - frail at the back and makes mistakes.
- Insua makes mistake after mistake after mistake at the back. I only assume he is your left back because Aurellio is forced to play left wing due to Liverpool's injuries.
- Babel - Played out of position and not frequently played after his first season. I thought he looked quite a decent player but lack of recent opportunities and poor man management has lead to destruction of his morale and motivation to play for Liverpool.
-Ngog - To young to be handling the pressure of the Torres role. Could be a good player but at 20 years old should not be considered ready to do what Rafa is obviously expecting of him.
Along with this under his management not a single person from the academy has come through to become a first team regular over a per-longed period of time (2 seasons or more). This suggest his whole sale changes to Liverpool's previous successful academy has left it in a poor state. When we look at Arsenal, Westham, Manchester United - who are all bringing youth through who become the core of their team (thus uphold the values and traditions of the club and the area that club represents). Having a core that comes through the acedemy - for me is vital to a team long term sustained success. (We can argue that Chelsea's core has been purchased from other London academies thus they feel an affinity for the area and the fans)
He has also made mistakes in selling players that could of been big players for Liverpool this season.
-Peter Crouch had little opportunity to make a name for himself at Liverpool, mostly making appearances from the bench.
-Selling Keane - another mistake, after only 6months and mostly Cameo appearances.
-Forcing Alonso through the door by Rafa's treatment of him over the 07/08 summer window - the public courting of Gareth Barry making him feel unwanted by the club. In the 08/09 title challenge shown how good he was - in that season he was arguably Liverpool's best player.
Tactically:
Rotation - Liverpool's squad does not have the strength or depth to do this. He needs to stick to his strongest XI every week in order to win games.
Zonal marking - A massive flaw this year. A lots of bad, needless goals conceded through a flawed and poor system that his players obviously cannot execute. Why does he refused to switch to man to man marking?
Defensive line up - Against teams like Pompy? Only Gerrard and Torres i believe were the only offensive players in the entire XI that were selected. Why would somebody show that fear of the leagues bottom team? Also the way the team plays is defensive and edgy.
Refusal to change tactics when things are not working - When the 4-5-1 is not working why not switch to 4-4-2 or get another striker on? It can damage the chances of the team if you are behind and you go all out.
High dependence on Gerrard and Torres - Without these 2 it shows - the following teams have better teams than Liverpool without Gerrard and Torres: Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City. Villa and Everton (when fully fit) are on the same level as them.
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That is my reasons why not to give any more money to him. He doesn't have a clue what he is doing. If not for a flukey comeback against Milan and Westham he would of lost his job 2 seasons ago.
If Liverpool want to be considered title contenders they need to make wholesale changes to almost every aspect of the club.
Lets start with transfers and players:
In 5 years he has signed over 120 players and spent near £250 MILLION in transfer fees on these players. Out of these 120 player i can count on 1 hand those that have been a success at Liverpool. - Torres, Benayoun, Alonso, Macherano, Reiner (Sorry for poor spelling).
Aqulani has been unused and injured. This suggests he is either a poor player or Rafa is again poorly managing someone.
Johnson thinks he is a right winger - i can imagine how many times he will be exploited in the world cup this year.
There is lots of dead wood in the current Liverpool squad.
-Lucas would not cut it in most Championship team - i honestly do not know what he brings to Liverpool - he lacks any sort of quality in any area of his game accept running around like an idiot the entire game.
- Skerel (spelling) hasn't been the same since he was tore apart by downing - frail at the back and makes mistakes.
- Insua makes mistake after mistake after mistake at the back. I only assume he is your left back because Aurellio is forced to play left wing due to Liverpool's injuries.
- Babel - Played out of position and not frequently played after his first season. I thought he looked quite a decent player but lack of recent opportunities and poor man management has lead to destruction of his morale and motivation to play for Liverpool.
-Ngog - To young to be handling the pressure of the Torres role. Could be a good player but at 20 years old should not be considered ready to do what Rafa is obviously expecting of him.
Along with this under his management not a single person from the academy has come through to become a first team regular over a per-longed period of time (2 seasons or more). This suggest his whole sale changes to Liverpool's previous successful academy has left it in a poor state. When we look at Arsenal, Westham, Manchester United - who are all bringing youth through who become the core of their team (thus uphold the values and traditions of the club and the area that club represents). Having a core that comes through the acedemy - for me is vital to a team long term sustained success. (We can argue that Chelsea's core has been purchased from other London academies thus they feel an affinity for the area and the fans)
He has also made mistakes in selling players that could of been big players for Liverpool this season.
-Peter Crouch had little opportunity to make a name for himself at Liverpool, mostly making appearances from the bench.
-Selling Keane - another mistake, after only 6months and mostly Cameo appearances.
-Forcing Alonso through the door by Rafa's treatment of him over the 07/08 summer window - the public courting of Gareth Barry making him feel unwanted by the club. In the 08/09 title challenge shown how good he was - in that season he was arguably Liverpool's best player.
Tactically:
Rotation - Liverpool's squad does not have the strength or depth to do this. He needs to stick to his strongest XI every week in order to win games.
Zonal marking - A massive flaw this year. A lots of bad, needless goals conceded through a flawed and poor system that his players obviously cannot execute. Why does he refused to switch to man to man marking?
Defensive line up - Against teams like Pompy? Only Gerrard and Torres i believe were the only offensive players in the entire XI that were selected. Why would somebody show that fear of the leagues bottom team? Also the way the team plays is defensive and edgy.
Refusal to change tactics when things are not working - When the 4-5-1 is not working why not switch to 4-4-2 or get another striker on? It can damage the chances of the team if you are behind and you go all out.
High dependence on Gerrard and Torres - Without these 2 it shows - the following teams have better teams than Liverpool without Gerrard and Torres: Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City. Villa and Everton (when fully fit) are on the same level as them.
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That is my reasons why not to give any more money to him. He doesn't have a clue what he is doing. If not for a flukey comeback against Milan and Westham he would of lost his job 2 seasons ago.
If Liverpool want to be considered title contenders they need to make wholesale changes to almost every aspect of the club.
Long reply - sorry bout that. But you thought about your post, so I thought I'd reply in a bit of depth. Hope you take it in the spirit intended mate - no offence behind anything I say meant - just pure honesty on how I've seen things the past six seasons (matchgoing red since 1984). 
I think you'll be amazed Wednesday night when the Kop gives their verdict on the post-Reading media rush to call for his sacking
I wouldn't trust your counting mate - you've managed to find nearly 50 more players than have actually been signed. And the 76 actually includes every single youth player brought in too - this being down to Rafa having to allocate senior budget finances to bring in youth players due to our previously dysfunctional academy.
If you tot up every single performance bonus to be potentially to be paid for a player and then throw in some media inflation of the actual figures, you might get closer to 230 million spent. But then you have to subtract the money brought in by players he's sold (no Bellamy sold = no money for Torres). Which knocks the inflated - many of those performance related bonuses would not have been paid - figure down to something closer to £120 million. In six seasons. That's £20 million a season at most. To rebuild Houllier's squad and create a title winning team. Fifteen years ago, twenty years ago - I'd say that's more than enough. Now? Pull the other one - it's got bells on it
Or that someone who is coming back from two injury blighted seasons may both need to regain his basic fitness and regain his match fitness as he gets used to the Premier League?
I think that's a fair point. Bar a couple of clangers (they happen to every player), he's actually well shielded by Kuyt who tracks back far more than any English right winger will do. But what's your point about Johnson? He's an attacking fullback. He does what it says on the tin
I can point you to the detailed analysis of Lucas' match performances available for free online (Guardian chalkboards or Opta stats) which would hint that you're probably wrong. I've backed Lucas from the start - and he's been winning over hardcore opposition this season as they begin to realise just what he's doing for the team. I expect Barca to be in for him at some point as their central midfield ages. Just as they were when he chose us over them in the first place...
He's hardly frail. He's had some poor performances, but equally he's had some cracking ones. Part and parcel of blooding young defenders. I'd compare him with Vidic at that age and find the comparison favourable to Skrtel.
I think the biggest problem for Insua (and Johnson) is that we've rarely been able to play a settled back four due to the injuries. And while he does make mistakes, this hardly makes him 'dead wood'. He's learning his craft.
Babel is inconsistent and doesn't take the opportunities when he is given a starting place in his 'favoured' role. He's not going to be first choice over Torres - despite what he thinks. So he can either get his stuff together and play a role for the team or he can throw his toys out of the pram. He's done the latter. Professional players do the former.
In fairness, I don't think Rafa's expectation is that he'll play like Torres at the moment (if ever). And this is a list of players who you think are 'dead wood' - so N'Gog certainly doesn't fit in here.
Ah the academy... first off, Rafa had absolutely nothing to do with the academy until this summer. Sounds crazy doesn't it? Absolutely true though - it was one of the conditions he had put into his new contract. The academy was actually controlled by Rick Parry as part of the Chief Exec's role. Which is utterly insane, but there you go.
Secondly, Liverpool is a coastal city (like Bristol and Newcastle). Under the rules governing academies, you can only bring players in from around 60 miles away from the academy facilities. As Keegan remarked at Newcastle when this rule was brought in, it's a shame that cod don't play football because so much of the area actually within the 60 mile boundary is actually water. We may yet discover a merman or two in the Irish sea, but I'll not hold my breath So the pool of potential players available to some clubs is greatly reduced in comparison to others. It heavily favours London, Birmingham and Manchester which have little 'wasted' area to recruit from and are at the centre of major conurbations. Now some clubs hit on a wheeze to this - what they do is they relocate potential players to within the area, with their parents. Whether that's right or wrong is another matter, but that's the way it is (my brother was offered such a move if he'd sign youth forms with Bolton). Our academy was being run on traditional values of bringing through only Liverpool born and bred players
Thirdly, you're wrong about academy players not coming through under Rafa. Spearing has made several appearances for the first team. As have a few others.
Peter Crouch was in the last season of his contract. We could have held onto him for one more season and let him go on a free, or we could have sold him for a profit. If you're suggesting the former was the wisest decision, then you're wrong.
Fun fact. Keane played in nearly 70% of the matches he was able to play during his stay at Liverpool. He's actually played fewer matches in percentage terms since moving to Spurs then when he was the nation's most famous bench warmer at Liverpool. Selling Keane wasn't a mistake - he scored a couple of great goals, but his consistent missing of bread and butter chances meant he ultimately had no future in the team. And some of the chances he missed are up there with Ronnie Rosenthal's miss against Villa.
In 07/08, Alonso was actually exceptionally poor. And I mean substantially below the form he'd shown since arriving at the club. Rafa moves to get rid, Parry bungles the transfer budget (much respect to Levy though - he seems to scalp everyone on fees received) and Alonso responded with a terrific performance in the 08/09 season.
Now for a hint of heresy... Alonso was actually holding Liverpool back in terms of their style of play. The team had become overly reliant on him pinging the ball to the flanks. Shut down Alonso, shut down Liverpool. It's no coincidence that he kept picking up ankle injuries as teams attempted to do this. So in order to move to a more fluid midfield, and assuming that at least one genuine anchor man was still needed to cover for attacking fullbacks, then a more mobile player like Barry, or Lucas, or Aquilani, is an obvious answer to get to pass and move football.
And if we do that, we'll have a squad of shattered players by Christmas. The spine of the team rarely changes though - Reina, Carra, Mash, Gerrard, Torres will almost always play if fit and available.
Do you mean at set-pieces? Or do you mean in open play?
If the former, then you'll find that zonal set-ups are actually better than man-marking at defending from set-pieces - Aston Villa and Chelsea have joined Liverpool in being clubs which have conceded fewest goals from set-pieces over the course of a season by using it. Watch Aston Villa this season (I think they're currently top of that particular league table) and you'll see they're marking zonally at set-pieces... As for individual player mistakes, well they happen in man-marking surely, or else a set-piece would never be scored?
If you mean change to man-marking in open-play, I really don't know what you mean. I can't think of a professional team who have used man-marking in open play as a system since Greece did it in the Euros when they won it (advantage of surprise playing a role in its success).
Well let's take the match against Portsmouth. Dossena can be accused of many things, but defensive (in any sense of the word) is not one of them. I don't think Kuyt is particularly defensive either - that's the right winger. Johnson is hardly a defensive selection at right back. Insua isn't particularly defensive at left back either. I make that five attack minded players with Lucas being the sixth. How did Liverpool lose that match? On the counter, which is odd for a 'defensive' side.
Agree totally that at the moment the team is edgy in defence. Spot on about that. Think that's down to an unsettled lineup at the back, a new style of play and the confidence being sucked out of the players by a poor run of games.
I've seen Rafa set out his teams as 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 and also 3-5-2. And I've seen this change being made in matches (Portsmouth away 08/09 was a good example of that btw). So I don't think you're watching the actual matches if you think this is correct. The whole shape of the team changes in an eyeblink following some substitutions (Istanbul 2005 was another classic example of changes made at half-time when things aren't going too well...).
Take Rooney out of Manchester United. Take Droghba and Lampard out of Chelsea. Take Fabregas and Arshavin out of Arsenal. Take Defoe and Lennon out of Spurs. Take Tevez and Bellamy out of Manchester City. Take....
Liverpool have two genuinely world class players. Of course the team is worse when they're not playing. Current value of Gerrard is reckoned at 40 million, Torres is being talked about as being worth more than Ronaldo. But what's your point here? Honestly - Liverpool cannot afford to go out and buy two equally qualified players. If we could, we'd be sorted. We'd have picked up Villa and Alves and any number of other first choice transfer targets who we've not been able to afford to buy.
If not for a flukey Robins goal, Ferguson would have been sacked after four seasons where he finished below more mid-table more often than not. If not for Berlusconi reading the riot act to his Milan players, Sacchi would have been sacked after just a few matches at Milan. etc. etc.
Honestly mate, you have no idea of the loyalty that matchgoing Reds have for Rafa nor the bond between fans and manager which has grown up despite having one of the most dysfunctional club ownership issues ever to be seen in football. You'll see our reply to those muppets who phone up the talk shows calling for his head on Wednesday night.
Nah. Simple change needed. Expensive but simple. Yanks out. Let's give the manager the financial backing he deserves rather than sending him out to try and create a championship winning team from freebies and the odd 10 million+ signing (ye gods - 10 million plus for a player, 10 years ago that was a fortune, these days it buys you a couple of toes of a genuinely talented player in his prime).
I think you'll be amazed Wednesday night when the Kop gives their verdict on the post-Reading media rush to call for his sacking
I wouldn't trust your counting mate - you've managed to find nearly 50 more players than have actually been signed. And the 76 actually includes every single youth player brought in too - this being down to Rafa having to allocate senior budget finances to bring in youth players due to our previously dysfunctional academy.
If you tot up every single performance bonus to be potentially to be paid for a player and then throw in some media inflation of the actual figures, you might get closer to 230 million spent. But then you have to subtract the money brought in by players he's sold (no Bellamy sold = no money for Torres). Which knocks the inflated - many of those performance related bonuses would not have been paid - figure down to something closer to £120 million. In six seasons. That's £20 million a season at most. To rebuild Houllier's squad and create a title winning team. Fifteen years ago, twenty years ago - I'd say that's more than enough. Now? Pull the other one - it's got bells on it
Or that someone who is coming back from two injury blighted seasons may both need to regain his basic fitness and regain his match fitness as he gets used to the Premier League?
I think that's a fair point. Bar a couple of clangers (they happen to every player), he's actually well shielded by Kuyt who tracks back far more than any English right winger will do. But what's your point about Johnson? He's an attacking fullback. He does what it says on the tin
I can point you to the detailed analysis of Lucas' match performances available for free online (Guardian chalkboards or Opta stats) which would hint that you're probably wrong. I've backed Lucas from the start - and he's been winning over hardcore opposition this season as they begin to realise just what he's doing for the team. I expect Barca to be in for him at some point as their central midfield ages. Just as they were when he chose us over them in the first place...
He's hardly frail. He's had some poor performances, but equally he's had some cracking ones. Part and parcel of blooding young defenders. I'd compare him with Vidic at that age and find the comparison favourable to Skrtel.
I think the biggest problem for Insua (and Johnson) is that we've rarely been able to play a settled back four due to the injuries. And while he does make mistakes, this hardly makes him 'dead wood'. He's learning his craft.
Babel is inconsistent and doesn't take the opportunities when he is given a starting place in his 'favoured' role. He's not going to be first choice over Torres - despite what he thinks. So he can either get his stuff together and play a role for the team or he can throw his toys out of the pram. He's done the latter. Professional players do the former.
In fairness, I don't think Rafa's expectation is that he'll play like Torres at the moment (if ever). And this is a list of players who you think are 'dead wood' - so N'Gog certainly doesn't fit in here.
Ah the academy... first off, Rafa had absolutely nothing to do with the academy until this summer. Sounds crazy doesn't it? Absolutely true though - it was one of the conditions he had put into his new contract. The academy was actually controlled by Rick Parry as part of the Chief Exec's role. Which is utterly insane, but there you go.
Secondly, Liverpool is a coastal city (like Bristol and Newcastle). Under the rules governing academies, you can only bring players in from around 60 miles away from the academy facilities. As Keegan remarked at Newcastle when this rule was brought in, it's a shame that cod don't play football because so much of the area actually within the 60 mile boundary is actually water. We may yet discover a merman or two in the Irish sea, but I'll not hold my breath
So the pool of potential players available to some clubs is greatly reduced in comparison to others. It heavily favours London, Birmingham and Manchester which have little 'wasted' area to recruit from and are at the centre of major conurbations. Now some clubs hit on a wheeze to this - what they do is they relocate potential players to within the area, with their parents. Whether that's right or wrong is another matter, but that's the way it is (my brother was offered such a move if he'd sign youth forms with Bolton). Our academy was being run on traditional values of bringing through only Liverpool born and bred playersThirdly, you're wrong about academy players not coming through under Rafa. Spearing has made several appearances for the first team. As have a few others.
Peter Crouch was in the last season of his contract. We could have held onto him for one more season and let him go on a free, or we could have sold him for a profit. If you're suggesting the former was the wisest decision, then you're wrong.
Fun fact. Keane played in nearly 70% of the matches he was able to play during his stay at Liverpool. He's actually played fewer matches in percentage terms since moving to Spurs then when he was the nation's most famous bench warmer at Liverpool. Selling Keane wasn't a mistake - he scored a couple of great goals, but his consistent missing of bread and butter chances meant he ultimately had no future in the team. And some of the chances he missed are up there with Ronnie Rosenthal's miss against Villa.
In 07/08, Alonso was actually exceptionally poor. And I mean substantially below the form he'd shown since arriving at the club. Rafa moves to get rid, Parry bungles the transfer budget (much respect to Levy though - he seems to scalp everyone on fees received) and Alonso responded with a terrific performance in the 08/09 season.
Now for a hint of heresy... Alonso was actually holding Liverpool back in terms of their style of play. The team had become overly reliant on him pinging the ball to the flanks. Shut down Alonso, shut down Liverpool. It's no coincidence that he kept picking up ankle injuries as teams attempted to do this. So in order to move to a more fluid midfield, and assuming that at least one genuine anchor man was still needed to cover for attacking fullbacks, then a more mobile player like Barry, or Lucas, or Aquilani, is an obvious answer to get to pass and move football.
And if we do that, we'll have a squad of shattered players by Christmas. The spine of the team rarely changes though - Reina, Carra, Mash, Gerrard, Torres will almost always play if fit and available.
Do you mean at set-pieces? Or do you mean in open play?
If the former, then you'll find that zonal set-ups are actually better than man-marking at defending from set-pieces - Aston Villa and Chelsea have joined Liverpool in being clubs which have conceded fewest goals from set-pieces over the course of a season by using it. Watch Aston Villa this season (I think they're currently top of that particular league table) and you'll see they're marking zonally at set-pieces... As for individual player mistakes, well they happen in man-marking surely, or else a set-piece would never be scored?
If you mean change to man-marking in open-play, I really don't know what you mean. I can't think of a professional team who have used man-marking in open play as a system since Greece did it in the Euros when they won it (advantage of surprise playing a role in its success).
Well let's take the match against Portsmouth. Dossena can be accused of many things, but defensive (in any sense of the word) is not one of them. I don't think Kuyt is particularly defensive either - that's the right winger. Johnson is hardly a defensive selection at right back. Insua isn't particularly defensive at left back either. I make that five attack minded players with Lucas being the sixth. How did Liverpool lose that match? On the counter, which is odd for a 'defensive' side.
Agree totally that at the moment the team is edgy in defence. Spot on about that. Think that's down to an unsettled lineup at the back, a new style of play and the confidence being sucked out of the players by a poor run of games.
I've seen Rafa set out his teams as 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 and also 3-5-2. And I've seen this change being made in matches (Portsmouth away 08/09 was a good example of that btw). So I don't think you're watching the actual matches if you think this is correct. The whole shape of the team changes in an eyeblink following some substitutions (Istanbul 2005 was another classic example of changes made at half-time when things aren't going too well...).
Take Rooney out of Manchester United. Take Droghba and Lampard out of Chelsea. Take Fabregas and Arshavin out of Arsenal. Take Defoe and Lennon out of Spurs. Take Tevez and Bellamy out of Manchester City. Take....
Liverpool have two genuinely world class players. Of course the team is worse when they're not playing. Current value of Gerrard is reckoned at 40 million, Torres is being talked about as being worth more than Ronaldo. But what's your point here? Honestly - Liverpool cannot afford to go out and buy two equally qualified players. If we could, we'd be sorted. We'd have picked up Villa and Alves and any number of other first choice transfer targets who we've not been able to afford to buy.
If not for a flukey Robins goal, Ferguson would have been sacked after four seasons where he finished below more mid-table more often than not. If not for Berlusconi reading the riot act to his Milan players, Sacchi would have been sacked after just a few matches at Milan. etc. etc.
Honestly mate, you have no idea of the loyalty that matchgoing Reds have for Rafa nor the bond between fans and manager which has grown up despite having one of the most dysfunctional club ownership issues ever to be seen in football. You'll see our reply to those muppets who phone up the talk shows calling for his head on Wednesday night.
Nah. Simple change needed. Expensive but simple. Yanks out. Let's give the manager the financial backing he deserves rather than sending him out to try and create a championship winning team from freebies and the odd 10 million+ signing (ye gods - 10 million plus for a player, 10 years ago that was a fortune, these days it buys you a couple of toes of a genuinely talented player in his prime).
that was the longest post ive ever seen, he took time on that post so i appreciate that, better than these 2 word posts people make up sometimes, i think he has a point, n gog will be good but benitez trying to get him to live up to the expectations of torres is absolute ridiculousness, hes too young and torres is the best striker in the world arguably, i dont think sacking him will do very much at all, youve got to stick with managers, im ****** that brighton didnt stick with russsell slade, now poyet is not doing hot at all, and he wont make panic signings hes not that stupid, they will finish in the top 6 this season i have no doubts on that, next season he needs to make some better signings if hes still there, and who would replace him anyway, anyone got ideas?
Aye sorry about the length of that post. But you see 'facts' about Rafa being spun almost everywhere at the moment because the media think they've seen blood (they've done it to Hughes this season, they tried it on Wenger last season), and it's getting a bit silly to see everyone trotting out the same lines.
I'd love decent back-up to Torres. But where do you get that kind of back-up on the budget Liverpool have at the moment? Take a punt on a freebie (like Voronin) is pretty much the only option other than throwing young players into important matches. Given the circumstances, I've been very impressed by N'Gog. If he fills out a bit, he's going to be a monster.
DRPEPPER - much respect to the Brighton fans. You guys have been through **** and back again over your ground, and before that just keeping your club alive.
I'd love decent back-up to Torres. But where do you get that kind of back-up on the budget Liverpool have at the moment? Take a punt on a freebie (like Voronin) is pretty much the only option other than throwing young players into important matches. Given the circumstances, I've been very impressed by N'Gog. If he fills out a bit, he's going to be a monster.
DRPEPPER - much respect to the Brighton fans. You guys have been through **** and back again over your ground, and before that just keeping your club alive.
swisswales
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As a lifelong fan who has not been able to frequent Anfield anywhere near as much as I would - and should - have done, I have to agree completely with Zeb's analysis....as much as it pains me to see our season crumble so early, Alonso did not make our team and our performances have not been due to his absence...probaly more simply due to a bad rub of the turf, boardroom fistycuffs and injuries to our key players (yet again)....We do not require a complete overhaul and must keep faith with Rafa!! Get the owners out and get someone who loves the club - not the business!
ps - I live near Milan and Aquillani is VERY highly rated in Italy. Most of my italian friends were very enthusiastic about his signing for Liverpool and rate him BETTER than Alonso (even tho Alonso had one great season in 08/09). They tell me he needs some time and was poorly managed in Rome, he could be a star player, just give him 3 months, a little sunshine and a regular place in the 1st eleven....
ps - I live near Milan and Aquillani is VERY highly rated in Italy. Most of my italian friends were very enthusiastic about his signing for Liverpool and rate him BETTER than Alonso (even tho Alonso had one great season in 08/09). They tell me he needs some time and was poorly managed in Rome, he could be a star player, just give him 3 months, a little sunshine and a regular place in the 1st eleven....
It really does not matter what the topic is, As soon as a thread about Liverpool is created everyone comes on and repeats the same points of view. Getting so tiring. Liverpool fans defend there manager and everyone else is slating him.
I
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swisswales
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no need to read or comment on anything that doesn't interest you....sorry there aren't more supporters...ahem...'threads' for you to work with on Hearts and Forest.....!
oO)
oO)
i think liverpool need a change just because he won the champions league a few season ago doesnt really mean anything look at the way liverpool play they were once a force in england but no more they have kuyt who isnt even a winger never mind a forward and other players like aurelio and insua lol lets be honest good players liverpool players no i am a man utd fan and hate liverpool but dont like to see a big team falter liverpool need to get away from the bad singings and start getting players with a bit desire and flair instead of part time **** like kuyt and a few others benetiz is a good manager yes is he finished at liverpool yes his policies are ridiculous if a player plays a full 90 mins hes to tired to play the next week and so forth lmao rotation rotation rotation is his policy so how can u expect consistancy with so many changes
Quite a bitter comment that.
It's not a dig at the club,fans or anyone on the site. Since you are new here you may be putting your point across for the first time and thats ok but for months any thread relating to Liverpool is a repeat of the one before.
Also for the record, Being an Admin i need to look through all threads,posts anyway so it's not that simple for me i am afraid.
swisswales
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aww c'mon Kris....don't be a spoilsport, just having a joke with you both, no malice intended....(A)
however if anyone was to add comments to your own replies/threads, which essentially only serve to devalue the topic of conversations and members opinions, then I don't think you'd appreciate it too much.....and as an admin, I would of thought out you'd understand the 'debates' that can cause more than anyone....tut tut....
hehe......
however if anyone was to add comments to your own replies/threads, which essentially only serve to devalue the topic of conversations and members opinions, then I don't think you'd appreciate it too much.....and as an admin, I would of thought out you'd understand the 'debates' that can cause more than anyone....tut tut....
hehe......
Kippa9
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Keane is a good player just taken a massive hit in confidence, he just didn't work out at liverpool was one of those buys, aquillani I'll agree has yet to really been seen but wasn't that bril in serie A de rossi would have been a better spend of £20mil. Lucas is one of the worst players I have ever seen, he constantly is spotted out as a poor tackler, poor passer, poor awareness pretty much a waste of space. Voronin started well and couldn't get back after injury he should go, babel a piece of ****, had promise but he just runs and gets confused with why he is there and should go. Mascherano not mentioned but is ****, moans about everything, can't throw a tackle or do anything of much significence, If Barca want to buy him, let the F***er go and be happy with the cash! Dossena and Degen are both not good enough, and don't get played which makes it even more worse. Riera is alright just needs to be played on left with benayoun on right and there's a bit more of a midfield. Dirk Kuyt is ****, deny it all you want but he doesn't know his best position and for a forward does a bad job assisting and scoring. Skrtel and Agger need to stay fit and get into a routine as they keep coming back straight from injury and play badly, not their fault but they do. Any questions call 0800-TheTruthHurtsDontIt-00
Odear.
Rafa a clown? Do you ever read the posts in all the other Liverpool threads? If not i think you should.