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British PM: state multiculturalism has failed

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David Cameron says the UK needs to move away from multiculturalism in favor of a "much more active, muscular liberalism." The Germans said basically the same thing over the summer, and especially with the rise of socially conservative right wing parties across Europe, many think that this is the trend on the continent. Thoughts?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

David Cameron said Britain had encouraged different cultures to live separate lives

The prime minister has criticised "state multiculturalism" in his first speech on radicalisation and the causes of terrorism since being elected.

Addressing a security conference in Germany, David Cameron argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to extremism.

He also signalled a tougher stance on groups promoting Islamist extremism.

But the Muslim Council of Britain said its community was being seen as part of the problem rather than the solution.

Mr Cameron suggested there would be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups that get public money but do little to tackle extremism.

Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with such groups, which should be denied access to public funds and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he argued.

Human rights
"Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the prime minister said.

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations," he added.

Reacting to the speech, the Muslim Council of Britain's assistant secretary general, Dr Faisal Hanjra, said the government had failed to move the issue on.

He told Radio 4's Today programme: "It is disappointing. We were hoping that with a new government, with a new coalition that there'd be a change in emphasis in terms of counter-terrorism and dealing with the problem at hand.

"In terms of the approach to tackling terrorism though it doesn't seem to be particularly new.

"Again it just seems the Muslim community is very much in the spotlight, being treated as part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution."

Muslim youth group The Ramadhan Foundation said that, by singling out Muslims, Mr Cameron had fed "hysteria and paranoia".

Chief executive Mohammed Shafiq said: "British Muslims abhor terrorism and extremism and we have worked hard to eradicate this evil from our country.

"But to suggest that we do not sign up to the values of tolerance, respect and freedom is deeply offensive and incorrect.

"Multiculturalism is about understanding each others faiths and cultures whilst being proud of our British citizenship."

In the speech in Munich, Mr Cameron drew a clear distinction between Islam the religion and what he described as "Islamist extremism" - a political ideology he said attracted people who feel "rootless" within their own countries.

"We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," he said.

The government is currently reviewing its policy to prevent violent extremism, known as Prevent, which is a key part of its wider counter-terrorism strategy.

'I am a Londoner too'
A genuinely liberal country "believes in certain values and actively promotes them", Mr Cameron said.

"Freedom of speech. Freedom of worship. Democracy. The rule of law. Equal rights, regardless of race, *** or sexuality.

"It says to its citizens: This is what defines us as a society. To belong here is to believe these things.

"Each of us in our own countries must be unambiguous and hard-nosed about this defence of our liberty."

He said under the "doctrine of state multiculturalism", different cultures have been encouraged to live separate lives.

"We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values."

Building a stronger sense of national and local identity holds "the key to achieving true cohesion" by allowing people to say "I am a Muslim, I am a Hindu, I am a Christian, but I am a Londoner... too", he said.

Security minister Baroness Neville-Jones said when Mr Cameron expressed his opposition to extremism, he meant all forms, not just Islamist extremism.

She told Today: "There's a widespread feeling in the country that we're less united behind values than we need to be.

"There are things the government can do to give a lead and encourage participation in society, including all minorities."

But the Islamic Society of Britain said the prime minister did not appreciate the nature of the problem.

Ajmal Masroor from the group told BBC Radio 5 live: "I think he's confusing a couple of issues: national identity and multiculturalism along with extremism are not connected. Extremism comes about as a result of several other factors."
 
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just watched this video too.
hate the ****** but I generally think he's got some very valid points.
ironically the same thing is going on in germany, chancellor merkel came out recently saying that multiculturalism had failed in her country too; basically all the minorities are segregated into their own groups and there is no real sense of unity or national identity :\
 
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Rubbish, ****, tosh. They are the words of a cosseted, higher-class toff who doesn't come into contact with anyone of any culture besides his own apart from on state visits.

"At a security conference in Germany, he argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to all kinds of extremism."

Only the likes of Cameron could say that. So, he thinks that to promote a stronger national identity we should be less tolerant as a society (and let's not pussyfoot around here, he does mean that). Lack of toleration is one of the driving factors of extremism, and this fool is encouraging it.

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations"

Oh that's a clever one. Their culture is different from ours, so lets not speak or engage with them in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Cameron's someone to be going on about equality, all right. If he was truly equal, he wouldn't be singling out groups of a certain faith or culture, he would be asking it to all groups regardless. As it is, he just shows himself to be the bigoted racist he is.
 
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Wish that Austrain was standing to be my MP, instead of these.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...snubbing-a-standing-ovation-for-war-hero.html

To be honest multiculturalism has failed in Britian. All major citys tend have their own White, Black and Asain areas.
Link from Sun, disregarded. Linking to an article by the Sun on issues of culture and race is like wearing Lady Gaga's bacon dress to a Jewish convention.

And that is rubbish. All major cities my ****. I live not too far away from Brixton, which is a melting pot of cultures and races. The area in which I live and the school that I go to is completely multicultural. I'm very proud of this, and I consider London to be at the forefront of multiculturalism in Britain, and rightly too.
 
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Rubbish, ****, tosh. They are the words of a cosseted, higher-class toff who doesn't come into contact with anyone of any culture besides his own apart from on state visits.

"At a security conference in Germany, he argued the UK needed a stronger national identity to prevent people turning to all kinds of extremism."

Only the likes of Cameron could say that. So, he thinks that to promote a stronger national identity we should be less tolerant as a society (and let's not pussyfoot around here, he does mean that). Lack of toleration is one of the driving factors of extremism, and this fool is encouraging it.

"These are the sorts of questions we need to ask. Fail these tests and the presumption should be not to engage with organisations"

Oh that's a clever one. Their culture is different from ours, so lets not speak or engage with them in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Cameron's someone to be going on about equality, all right. If he was truly equal, he wouldn't be singling out groups of a certain faith or culture, he would be asking it to all groups regardless. As it is, he just shows himself to be the bigoted racist he is.
now how is he being racist? he's not saying it's a lack of toleration if you listen it's saying that this country isn't doing enough to make the different cultures, of which there are MANY in britain, feel part of a national identity. instead, each minority feels part of it's own culture instead of a national one and that causes instability between different races/nationality etc.

and I'm delighted for you that your town has successfully multi-culturalised. unfortunately that's not the same for everyone in britain - where I'm from there are tons of eastern europeans, many who speak NO english and many who spend the day robbing from the shop where I work - they don't belong in our society. and that's not to say that I hate all foreigners whatsoever, I have several portuguese/eastern european friends, but there is definitely a segregation between the different cultures and that causes friction.
 
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Wish that Austrain was standing to be my MP, instead of these.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...snubbing-a-standing-ovation-for-war-hero.html

To be honest multiculturalism has failed in Britian. All major citys tend have their own White, Black and Asain areas.
you can blame that on the 50's, and rasicm againt those immigrating to the country, depstie the fact they were actively encouraged to do so by the then government. they setlled together in safe areas.

and im nto sure what your point is about the two councillors is either

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

Link from Sun, disregarded. Linking to an article by the Sun on issues of culture and race is like wearing Lady Gaga's bacon dress to a Jewish convention.

And that is rubbish. All major cities my ****. I live not too far away from Brixton, which is a melting pot of cultures and races. The area in which I live and the school that I go to is completely multicultural. I'm very proud of this, and I consider London to be at the forefront of multiculturalism in Britain, and rightly too.
godcubed: Brixton = multcultural central :wub:
 
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now how is he being racist? he's not saying it's a lack of toleration if you listen it's saying that this country isn't doing enough to make the different cultures, of which there are MANY in britain, feel part of a national identity. instead, each minority feels part of it's own culture instead of a national one and that causes instability between different races/nationality etc.
I explained earlier. He is specifically picking out and targetting in this speech groups promoting Islamic extremism. Not RELIGIOUS extremism. ONLY Islamic extremism. By saying that, he's implying that only Muslims can be extremists. If he wanted to clamp down on extremism, he'd be fairer and target ALL religious groups promoting extremism.

He isn't saying anything like what you've said. He doesn't want to integrate these people into society - that's what multiculturalism is - he's saying that attempt has failed.

and I'm delighted for you that your town has successfully multi-culturalised. unfortunately that's not the same for everyone in britain - where I'm from there are tons of eastern europeans, many who speak NO english and many who spend the day robbing from the shop where I work - they don't belong in our society. and that's not to say that I hate all foreigners whatsoever, I have several portuguese/eastern european friends, but there is definitely a segregation between the different cultures and that causes friction.
Maybe where you live, but this is what I'm getting at. Multiculturalism shouldn't just be given up on because of the words of a clueless toff, but it should be nurtured and protected until we can live in peace and harmony. Maybe, instead of dismissing multiculturalism, we decided to back it and make everywhere a little Brixton, we could cut down on crime caused. Have you considered that maybe, because these people are bearing the brunt of racism and intolerance, maybe they feel they don't want to be part of such a prejudiced society? Maybe, just maybe, that's what drives them to commit crimes?
 
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he says specifically that the reckless manner of which multi-culturalism has been attempted is what's caused the friction and that there is no national identity which people can attach themselves too; instead it's just a mix of different cultures and that is causing the problems. what he says about the muslim community, i disagree with because it is far too far'fetched to think that is the only reason behind extremism, but with society as a whole I agree.

and well I'm certainly not racist to these minorities, and have never treated them any differently. it might be that the minority do give them **** but then they give it back as well. if they don't want to be part of a "prejudice" society, then why come in the first place?
 
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he says specifically that the reckless manner of which multi-culturalism has been attempted is what's caused the friction and that there is no national identity which people can attach themselves too; instead it's just a mix of different cultures and that is causing the problems. what he says about the muslim community, i disagree with because it is far too far'fetched to think that is the only reason behind extremism, but with society as a whole I agree.

and well I'm certainly not racist to these minorities, and have never treated them any differently. it might be that the minority do give them **** but then they give it back as well. if they don't want to be part of a "prejudice" society, then why come in the first place?
the last sentence is such a harsh answer, most people are goodwilled, and so are most immigrants. its the small minority on BOTH sides who ruin it for others
 
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Multiculturalism is something i'm very much for, doing a sociology and anthropology degree next year and I love learning/experiencing different cultures. It would be great to say England become even more diverse.
 
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the last sentence is such a harsh answer, most people are goodwilled, and so are most immigrants. its the small minority on BOTH sides who ruin it for others
mike, that is exactly what I was implying.
 
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mike, that is exactly what I was implying.
OK, wasnt sure becuase of your last point.

The recklessness stems back from the 50's when peple were actively encouraged to immigrate haphazardly after the war (loss of a generation of workers etc), and we never really sorted it out afterwards. But Cameron is a fool if we think we should give up on it.
 
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OK, wasnt sure becuase of your last point.

The recklessness stems back from the 50's when peple were actively encouraged to immigrate haphazardly after the war (loss of a generation of workers etc), and we never really sorted it out afterwards. But Cameron is a fool if we think we should give up on it.
no my last point was in context to what godcubed was saying - I disagreed with him that they are criminals because we're racist to them because like you said the majority of our people aren't racist towards them.

and yeah I do believe it is from that and I don't agree that it should be given up on.. but at the same time I do think that they need to control immigration a lot better than the labour party did because it doesn't give people a chance to integrate when you just bring in hundreds of people from all different cultures and backgrounds. it does need to be controlled, and we do need a renewed form of national identity.
 
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he says specifically that the reckless manner of which multi-culturalism has been attempted is what's caused the friction and that there is no national identity which people can attach themselves too; instead it's just a mix of different cultures and that is causing the problems. what he says about the muslim community, i disagree with because it is far too far'fetched to think that is the only reason behind extremism, but with society as a whole I agree.
His point about the reckless manner of multiculturalism in Britain is fair enough, but he then goes on to say that we should give up on it, which is absolutely stupid. If his "national identity" includes basic religious intolerance and a lack of fairness regarding religions and cultures then he can throw me out of the country himself.

and well I'm certainly not racist to these minorities, and have never treated them any differently. it might be that the minority do give them **** but then they give it back as well. if they don't want to be part of a "prejudice" society, then why come in the first place?
Because they didn't know? They see Britain as being a good, kindly, fair and hospitable place. They come here to find racism, intolerance and injustice. Frankly, if I was in their position, I'd be damned annoyed myself.

Besides, who are we to say the majority of people aren't racist to them? I can only speculate how many people are racist or at very least prejudiced towards them.

OK, wasnt sure becuase of your last point.

The recklessness stems back from the 50's when peple were actively encouraged to immigrate haphazardly after the war (loss of a generation of workers etc), and we never really sorted it out afterwards. But Cameron is a fool if we think we should give up on it.
Indeed.
 
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I agree with the fact we need a tougher stance on those who supposedly belong to this country, yet spend the majority of their time complaining and protesting about it, and in extreme cases, harming it.
 
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no my last point was in context to what godcubed was saying - I disagreed with him that they are criminals because we're racist to them because like you said the majority of our people aren't racist towards them.

and yeah I do believe it is from that and I don't agree that it should be given up on.. but at the same time I do think that they need to control immigration a lot better than the labour party did because it doesn't give people a chance to integrate when you just bring in hundreds of people from all different cultures and backgrounds. it does need to be controlled, and we do need a renewed form of national identity.
ah ok with you there. I actually think our loss of identity is less to do with culutre and more to with the fact we as a nation have lost our purpose. Wheres our car industry for example? Where's our get in there and fix things the right way mentality? Where's our scientific spearheading? We have become so half hearted in what we do nowadays
 
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ah ok with you there. I actually think our loss of identity is less to do with culutre and more to with the fact we as a nation have lost our purpose. Wheres our car industry for example? Where's our get in there and fix things the right way mentality? Where's our scientific spearheading? We have become so half hearted in what we do nowadays
oh absolutely, our economy is a shambles because we don't do anything for ourselves. it's embarrasing how little of our stuff comes from here anymore, instead we head abroad because it's "cheaper" which is such a short-term minded and selfish way to think but I guess that's what it's come to :S
 
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oh absolutely, our economy is a shambles because we don't do anything for ourselves. it's embarrasing how little of our stuff comes from here anymore, instead we head abroad because it's "cheaper" which is such a short-term minded and selfish way to think but I guess that's what it's come to :S
Unfortunately yes. Whilst I don't subscribe to the whole "Oh woe is us what has this once great nation become" school of thought, it is sad and as you said a tad embarrassing to think that, past the financial sector, we have such a little purpose worldwide.
 
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