Can simple mathematics beat Football Manager?

[Scotty98TR]

You'd also need to set every players creative freedom to nothing, as creative freedom means they ignore their player instructions

Anyway, as has been said, you need the players to work as a team. Not only that, I can't see this working defensively, as the whole point of defending is to prevent the other team scoring, so your players need to react to their opponent, not how good them themselves are at tackling/marking/etc.

 

[stuieg1]

i agree

 

[Jake]

You'd also need to set every players creative freedom to nothing, as creative freedom means they ignore their player instructions

Yes, but they also fall back on their player preferred moves when under pressure. So creative freedom of zero plus rarely long shots instruction can mean long shots are still fired off if the player isn't given another option.

In response to the OP, simple maths has no chance of beating the match engine.

 

[MetalHeroChris]

It would be really helpful if SI could implement the use of numbers for the number of "clicks" on each slider, be more accurate and more helpful when creating tactics in my opinion.

I think a mod was done for it, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

This fails since just because à player Will perform something really well, it does not mean that its the right thing to do.

Also, I assume that the stats presented in the OP are just random examples.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

It would be really helpful if SI could implement the use of numbers for the number of "clicks" on each slider, be more accurate and more helpful when creating tactics in my opinion.

I think a mod was done for it, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.

" Clicks" does not matter. Look at à slider like passing to have only 5 settings. The shortest(0) shortish(5), mixed(10), more direct(15) and longball(20).

 

[mimisv]

if u figure it post in excel sheet

 

[paetoja]

i think they can
i been using that approach lately in FM12 with opposition instructions and individual intructions , still haven't really find the perfect thing for team but almost there. I won 3 league titles and a Champions league title with MP Black aces in 4 years taking them from the second division to first
my formula

(passing+techinique)/2 No of clicks for passing ( all my mids had 80% passing most of the 4 seasons)
(flair+creativity)/2 No of clicks for creativity
(dribbling+technique+flair+agility)/4 for running with the ball (often if average and the dribbling attribute are both over average for example 14 or 15 for La liga)
(anticipation+decisions+off the ball+workrate)/4 for run from deep
(crossing+technique+anticipation+decisions)/4 for crossing
(long shots+technique+flair)/3 for long shots

hard tackling on players with low bravery
closing down players with low composure
tight marking players with low off the ball

for team instructions maybe this could work
sum of off the ball , positioning decisions and anticipation of the 10 outfield players divided by 40 for team width
sum of anticipation creativity decisions teamwork of the 10 outfield players divided by 30 for tempo
sum of anticipation composure creativity decisions teamwork of the 10 outfield players divided by 40 for time wasting

 

[apvmoreira]

i think they can
i been using that approach lately in FM12 with opposition instructions and individual intructions , still haven't really find the perfect thing for team but almost there. I won 3 league titles and a Champions league title with MP Black aces in 4 years taking them from the second division to first
my formula

(passing+techinique)/2 No of clicks for passing ( all my mids had 80% passing most of the 4 seasons)
(flair+creativity)/2 No of clicks for creativity
(dribbling+technique+flair+agility)/4 for running with the ball (often if average and the dribbling attribute are both over average for example 14 or 15 for La liga)
(anticipation+decisions+off the ball+workrate)/4 for run from deep
(crossing+technique+anticipation+decisions)/4 for crossing
(long shots+technique+flair)/3 for long shots

hard tackling on players with low bravery
closing down players with low composure
tight marking players with low off the ball

for team instructions maybe this could work
sum of off the ball , positioning decisions and anticipation of the 10 outfield players divided by 40 for team width
sum of anticipation creativity decisions teamwork of the 10 outfield players divided by 30 for tempo
sum of anticipation composure creativity decisions teamwork of the 10 outfield players divided by 40 for time wasting

So it's possible to create a philosophy, not a win every game tactic.Is it possible to create a filter for players?

 

[stuieg1]

I like the theory but The problem i can see there is you have based your passing instruction on just 2 attributes when it takes alot more into account including different attributes requied fir each short mixed direct and long passing, not to mention the attributes requied for the person recieving the ball

 

[TheBetterHalf]

I would probably say that playing à "mixed "'passing game to perfection is the hardest, hence needing the best stats.

 

[stuieg1]

Which would make sense becouse if u perfect mixed u would have perfected all passing types and choose the right option everytime

 

[gogogo golem]

I'd like to say it won't work in base form but if you do this kind of thing for the entire team and build a tactic based on the maths with one or two exceptions from the overall strategy you would have a tactic suiting the team very well. You've also got to take into account which tactical instructions work well together.

 

[stuieg1]

But thats if its the correct method to turn attributes into sliders, which im still not entirely convinced, but i think if we can crack this then u could find the best tactic for any particular team

 

[paetoja]

I like the theory but The problem i can see there is you have based your passing instruction on just 2 attributes when it takes alot more into account including different attributes requied fir each short mixed direct and long passing, not to mention the attributes requied for the person recieving the ball

well i see passing just as if he can make the pass, and i think those 2 attributes are the only 2 u need to make it accurate, i thought it was too simply but it worked . for receiving the ball is all about the other player,

 

[helloiamanewlow]

I'm not convinced that this will work but I'm interested in people using different ideas within the game. I hope you can get a system working.

Personally if I was going to do this I'd be simplifying it by linking attacking players dribbling stats to their mentality and choosing their Creative freedom by picking the mid point between Creativity, Flair and Decisions stats.

 

[dzunglv]

my aim is to adjust tactic so every player is using the sliders he is most comfortable with. do you think this could work or is there other factors which will throw this formula out the window?

This worths a try anyway. Why do we just firstly test on Short pass- Man utd. You can make the comfortable knot sliders for 11 players first squad, then make a post here. We may then compare the result when using a regular default short pass tactic with the Mathematics one. If it is positive we shall go on.

However I must remind you that player's performance also based on invisible stats, like consistency, important match, morale, and also workrate, match fitness, ... which may cause the other player who has the same stat like Ferdinand makes difference completed passes to him

 

[apvmoreira]

This worths a try anyway. Why do we just firstly test on Short pass- Man utd. You can make the comfortable knot sliders for 11 players first squad, then make a post here. We may then compare the result when using a regular default short pass tactic with the Mathematics one. If it is positive we shall go on.

However I must remind you that player's performance also based on invisible stats, like consistency, important match, morale, and also workrate, match fitness, ... which may cause the other player who has the same stat like Ferdinand makes difference completed passes to him

Ofc they will, but the idea could be used to create a role type for that spot. Then we just need to find similar players and test if they fit the role. if so, then you know what you need and you will only buy those who are similar. Doing this for every position, with the right tutoring.

The invisible stats can be viewed by sending scouts to check the players. In the report you can find the personality, weakness and by this you are filtering those "invisible".

Im playing a Man Utd save, so i can test it if you like.

 

[ohembrough747]

What about player's prefered moves and a teams prefered method of attack....for isntance if you tried to make stoke players play a short passing game.

I'll check up on your results, but i'm sceptical

Good luck!

 

[drhay53]

Let me preface this by saying I'm an astrophysicist and it's my job to work with numbers. Now my opinion on the topic:

1) It is POSSIBLE to design a mathematical formula to tell a player exactly where to set every slider based on a player's attributes. In the past I have used this information to determine certain settings myself. I would average a certain set of attributes to help me determine run with ball, run from deep, and try through ball settings for different players at the same position.

2) The algorithm will always be highly dependent on what the player's definition of "best" settings are. Are you trying to get the player to score goals? To make assists? To make tackles? To win the ball? Are you trying to bring all 11 players together to win every game? Are you trying to "get the most from the player" based on his strengths? I'm guessing the last one is probably the goal. But 11 players with their best possible individual instructions will not necessarily be a great team.

The enticing thing about mathematical definitions of player settings based only on attributes is that it takes all responsibility away from the person playing the game to make tactical decisions. If I have set up all of my players "perfectly" according to my formula, then clearly a loss or bad form for that player must be the game's fault or the player's fault. In my opinion, accepting tactical blame for a loss is one of the hardest things for an FM player to do, which is why mathematical formulae seem to pop up repeatedly.

If I do all of my thinking about tactical settings beforehand, by setting up my algorithm, then I never have to think about it again and all difficult tactical decisions simply get run through my formula thereby taking the tough decision away from me.

I'm not saying it's wrong to play the game this way; that's just my opinion on why these things tend to pop up every couple of years.