Central Defender on Cover Duty problems.

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maxchaplin55

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Hi.

Seem to be missing something in regards to the central defender 'cover' duty.

- I play a high lined 4231 with two central mids, left on 'support' right on 'defend' - but set to hold position - and close down less.
- My back line from left to right is FBs CDd CDc FBa.

My issue is that when I am defending an attack, all my back 6 will be in perfect positions, but if my 'cover' cd is marking a striker that runs deep, he will stupidly, aggressively follow him, with or without the ball. Obviously this consequently leads to a defence splitting pass/mayhem.

Any pointers/ideas on any instructions to add? I dont overload players with instructions, although I have tried with 'hold position', 'ease off tackles', 'close down less', but the geez still acts like a fool.

Thanks for any suggestions!
 
Have you checked the defenders PPM, I have one who has Mark Tightly as a PPM which often sees him follow the striker deeper so as a result the other defender is on a cover to protect myself for this, it could be the cover defender has this trait which is causing him to abandon his role a little.
 
Conflictinbanno said:
Have you checked the defenders PPM, I have one who has Mark Tightly as a PPM which often sees him follow the striker deeper so as a result the other defender is on a cover to protect myself for this, it could be the cover defender has this trait which is causing him to abandon his role a little.
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Good suggestion but na his only one is 'Gets into opposition area' - which only effects the player when our team has the ball, surely.
 
Hmm that is odd, can't say I've ever seen that before. Has the player he is marking got tight marking set to always in the opposition instructions or has Rose got specific man marking instructions?

Not sure what else could cause something like that unfortunately!
 
Conflictinbanno said:
Hmm that is odd, can't say I've ever seen that before. Has the player he is marking got tight marking set to always in the opposition instructions or has Rose got specific man marking instructions?

Not sure what else could cause something like that unfortunately!
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I never set opposition instructions, at least I haven't on this save. He is stripped of all instructions really!

I seem to have kept it from happening quite so often now, not even too sure how it's linked that much, but have both central mids to mark tightly.

EDIT: OPPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS - NEVER CLOSE DOWN STRIKER!!!
 
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maxchaplin55 said:
Good suggestion but na his only one is 'Gets into opposition area' - which only effects the player when our team has the ball, surely.
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Will he not be moving up as the play gets deeper, maybe him be so far up is due to him always being on the way back rather than moving up?
 
wkdsoul said:
Will he not be moving up as the play gets deeper, maybe him be so far up is due to him always being on the way back rather than moving up?
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That's what anyone would think just looking at it, but he started this defensive situation in line with the rest of the defenders and actually travelled up the pitch whilst they were on the attack. This is the start of the move....

Start of move.
View attachment 177982

Next stage.
View attachment 177980

And then the final stage as shown earlier.
 
what are his anticipation, concentration and decision making stats like?
 
wkdsoul said:
what are his anticipation, concentration and decision making stats like?
Click to expand...

13, 14, 12, in that order.

Earlier I stated that i had solved the issue, i just played Olympiakos and realised the issue is far from solved, this time when the opposition winger had the ball, my right back was dealing with him, for some reason rose would sprint towards the winger allowing his man in the box to tap home unmarked, TWICE, losing 2-0.
 
maxchaplin55 said:
That's what anyone would think just looking at it, but he started this defensive situation in line with the rest of the defenders and actually travelled up the pitch whilst they were on the attack. This is the start of the move....

Start of move.
View attachment 1022929

Next stage.
View attachment 1022931

And then the final stage as shown earlier.
Click to expand...
This is the reason that PKMs or videos are requested. Now there's some context around the situation. He's not 'stupidly' pushing up. You had a big gap there and the defender is trying to cover for that inadequacy. The striker is on him, is he supposed to not do anything and let the other DC come all the way over to create an even bigger gap? You just need to cover the space in front of the DC.
 
WJ said:
This is the reason that PKMs or videos are requested. Now there's some context around the situation. He's not 'stupidly' pushing up. You had a big gap there and the defender is trying to cover for that inadequacy. The striker is on him, is he supposed to not do anything and let the other DC come all the way over to create an even bigger gap? You just need to cover the space in front of the DC.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean by big gap, thats a space of what 10 yards? What he is supposed to do (in my tactic), is stand off, and let the central midfield pick him up, as the central defender (especially cover) is my last line of defence. If you look at the second attachment in the above quoted post, within seconds my central midfielder is on the striker, so there would have been no need for the central defender to have stupidly closed him down.

I dont mean to sound argumentative, but I do genuinely feel it's a problem, idk whether to say its a bug, but like I said in previous post it happens also when an opposition winger has the ball AND my full back is in position dealing with him, it makes no sense.
 
maxchaplin55 said:
I don't know what you mean by big gap, thats a space of what 10 yards? What he is supposed to do (in my tactic), is stand off, and let the central midfield pick him up, as the central defender (especially cover) is my last line of defence. If you look at the second attachment in the above quoted post, within seconds my central midfielder is on the striker, so there would have been no need for the central defender to have stupidly closed him down.

I dont mean to sound argumentative, but I do genuinely feel it's a problem, idk whether to say its a bug, but like I said in previous post it happens also when an opposition winger has the ball AND my full back is in position dealing with him, it makes no sense.
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The striker is past your midfielders and in space with the ball. He needed to step up.

When the midfielders do engage, he could drop off again, but he's involved already and wasn't to know the midfielders would catch up again. Without seeing it I can't say for sure what should or shouldn't have happened.
 
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WJ said:
The striker is past your midfielders and in space with the ball. He needed to step up.

When the midfielders do engage, he could drop off again, but he's involved already and wasn't to know the midfielders would catch up again. Without seeing it I can't say for sure what should or shouldn't have happened.
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Ok so let's go with what you said for the sake of solving this - let's say the issue is that the opposition striker is in 5 yards of space so (regardless of his role/duty), the central defender on that side should aggressively close him down causing a gap in my defence.

View attachment 176044
This is my tactical setup, not my usual MCR. He is individually instructed to hold his position. I'm always on standard, and am usually on fluid, unless I am under the cosh when holding a slender lead in which I will go flexible to avoid my full backs getting too far forward. I play a slightly higher line with an offside trap.

To compress my defence and central midfielders together, I could go with a higher line, but feel that exposes me too much to quick counter attacks. I really don't see how I can close the gap anymore whilst keeping balance in my team.

EDIT: I realise the role of the CD is different to the OP because I now opt for an offside trap because I though that may keep him inline with his central defensive partner but he still closes down.
 
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It doesn't matter what your setup is. If there are gaps, the next line will step up. If an MC leaves a gap and lets his man past, the DM will step up to engage. If there's no DM, it's up to the DC.

You're basically paying the price for not having 2 holders, which is what a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to have. The Support duty midfielder pushes up and the Defend duty midfielder is offset.
 
Yeah in this years FM you're punished if you leave too much space for between midfield and defenders... I always try play with at least 1 DM.
 
WJ said:
It doesn't matter what your setup is. If there are gaps, the next line will step up. If an MC leaves a gap and lets his man past, the DM will step up to engage. If there's no DM, it's up to the DC.

You're basically paying the price for not having 2 holders, which is what a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to have. The Support duty midfielder pushes up and the Defend duty midfielder is offset.
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I have figured that the game wants you to have two central midfielders on defend duty in a 4231, so I have since done so, but I do disagree that in real life, for a 4231 to be fully functional in all departments, it needs two holders.

For example, City will normally use Fernandinho and Toure, only one of them will hold during the game. Arsenal will have Coquelin hold, Cazorla next to him supporting attacks, and Chelsea (used to) have Matic holding with Fabregas next to him supporting attacks. - I never saw their central defenders aggressively charge a striker in 5 yards of space, instead they would drop off and allow the central midfielders to track back, as would be the correct thing to do in my eyes.
 
The 4-2-3-1 IRL uses DMs anyway, so there's a big difference already. Regardless though, you have a gap there.
 
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WJ said:
The 4-2-3-1 IRL uses DMs anyway, so there's a big difference already. Regardless though, you have a gap there.
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Regardless of whether they are two 'DMs' in real life, they will still roam and will not hold, meaning there will be gaps between them and the CD.

There is always going to be a gap, there's never going to be a point in the match where there are 0 yards between a CD and MC.
What about when you look at opposition formations and they're clearly playing one central midfielder who is not a holding player? How comes their centre halves aren't aggressively closing down when my forward gets between the lines?

I just don't get why there is no option/instruction to tell your CDs to hold off and they actually do it, regardless of how much space the forward is in, because if they hold off, the midfield will catch up.
 
Whatever they can do, you can do too.

Have you also considered the attributes of the Cover defender pushing up? Does he have poor decisions? High aggression?
 
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