Defence issues...

I really don't understand this game, currently getting smashed by Stoke. 3 goals in the first half, same amount of chances as myself, I have zero goals. Begovic as a force field in front of his net. Wide open and my shots zip of towards the corner flag.

This game is ****, look I appreciate it can't be like real life. Therefore give us a slider for normal, easy or hard mode. Because the experience I'm having is very unrealistic.

I've played some awkward and fiddly games in my time, but this takes the biscuit. F@cking awful.
 
Are you using the tactic i uploaded?

Yes or no, tell me your team, year and players.
 
Djibril Cisse said:
Are you using the tactic i uploaded?

Yes or no, tell me your team, year and players.
Click to expand...

No, not your tactic Cisse. I did load it up and ran in it for a few games, looked at all the player instructions you had and then set about adapting my own tactic. Think my team instructions might not be right - usually just have - work ball into box, play out of defence and shorter passing. Balanced - control on the Denmark.

I've played a few games up till mid october, been good so far 1-1 draw away against chelsea was my only low real low. But I feel like I've been cheated big time.

Watching is not fun, barely win, not converting chances well now and my two centre mids, usually Bender -bwm def and Ramsey or Arteta dlps. Poor averages, like 6.9 most games - low assists for Ramsey and low in tackles fir Bender. I'm testing some options now, last attempt. Could it be the AM crowding space ahead? Is it wise to use two playmakers?

Even when I win, it usually feels like I've completed a chore rather than had fun.
 
I am not a tactical or ME expert, i dont actually believe that the tactic i uploaded works so well for me (still offcourse conceeding STUPID goals. I shut down my area, my opponents shoots about 3 or 4 times in a match but still they create CCCs that some times means a goal, from a corner or a penalty (4 until now in 13 matches)) but my only advice is try it. I know you want to create your own, and common and simple things TO WORK in the ME so that you CAN create your own.

After using it for about 30 matces in my long term (testing) save and conceeding about 15 goals i started a new one. 8 new players, which means cohesion is zero, all of them first eleven, and so far so good. Another thing is that in my new save my defenders are -not trained- youngsters so they have **** attributes for playing offside. (11 positioning, 8-9 decisions and concentration etc)


In 13 matces i scored 18 and conceded only 7. 2 of them penalties, and 2 or 3 from set pieces.

I have average of 10-13 shots and 3 cccs and 3-4 shots and 1 ccc against.

IF YOU want to try it, i would suggest you use :

GK Szczesny DR Jenkinson DL Moreal DC Sagna (unless you see that although you have him a DC he still gets foreard like his ppms says) DC Koskielny DM Vermalen MC Flamini MC Arteta AMR Ramsey AML Wilshere (or Gibbs) STC Giroud (or Ozil). All other default players are not good in defence which means they wont steal balls from midfield. Even Arteta isnt good enough because of low marking and strength.

And buy this kind of players for backups. FBs that dont go forward, Defensive Mids for MCs with descent pass and creativity, hard workers for Ws and your best player (better if he is a teamplayer/passer+finisher) for forward.

And some other things here : http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...4231-[mourinho-counter]-beta.html#post2116962

I know you have Arsenal and you want to utilize your world class players to play attacking and ALSO being solid but this is the only thing i can say. And offcourse its soon to judje it as i already suffered second season sindroms, heavy losses from nowhere and STUPID goals conceeded in my previous created tactics.

But this is working so nicely for me that i have hope.
 
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Thanks again for your help Cisse, it help me to see what I was doing and made me think a bit. But, our problem is ME bullshit, not tactics I think.

I read on a post of yours somewhere else that the ME wasn't respecting anyone with low strength. This means at Arsenal your f@cked, because there all weak.

I'm probably going to retire again for a bit, might try and get to January and see how I feel then.

I did get the park the bus achievement earlier, so it is possibly to defend but it's impossible to stop the ME from ******** on you when it thinks your doing too good.

Your numbers are solid, I can't argue that your tactic certainly restricts play for opposition. Only my testing I found this, though I did not stick with it long enough to see it fluid.
 
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I'm having these issues too playing 4411. I managed to make my Wigan team potent in attack, we scored 68 goals in the league with McManaman and Maloney as my 2 wingers in the PL and Nick Powell as my attacking midfielder and Simone Zaza as my main striker, so 3 of my front 4 being the ones I had in the championship, which made us the 3rd top scorers. Made numerous other chances which my players seem to miss!

My problem is in defence, conceded 50 in 38 PL games. Got any instructions? My tactics are pretty high risk with the ball in midfield so the ball turnover is quite a lot. Just need to make my 4411 harder to break down without the ball!
 
XeNoNF50 said:
I'm having these issues too playing 4411. I managed to make my Wigan team potent in attack, we scored 68 goals in the league with McManaman and Maloney as my 2 wingers in the PL and Nick Powell as my attacking midfielder and Simone Zaza as my main striker, so 3 of my front 4 being the ones I had in the championship, which made us the 3rd top scorers. Made numerous other chances which my players seem to miss!

My problem is in defence, conceded 50 in 38 PL games. Got any instructions? My tactics are pretty high risk with the ball in midfield so the ball turnover is quite a lot. Just need to make my 4411 harder to break down without the ball!
Click to expand...



Dude, I'm loosely enjoying it now, but only because I reload games where I feel the AI robbed me. Sad, but what else can you do. To clarify this, I do change formation and I do change mentality etc. I'm not purely re starting games just because I lose, as my exit in the Champs league quarters to Bayern (yet again) proves.

I've played through pre season in year 2 numerous times now, testing before I start my second campaign. Making 3 new signings of Ter Stegen, Gino Peruzzi and Ricardo Rodriguez. Gareth Barry on a free also.

I have noticed my team as an whole playing better, when I put everyone on generic positions and switched to fluid, playmakers are sometimes more trouble than there worth imo.

Carzola was my top assist guy last year as a plain inside forward, despite Ozil, Wilshere and Ramsey and some point all being a playmaker.

I wish I had something better to tell you, I'd recommend looking at Cisse tactic on this post, It's very defensively geared, watch it for a few games - might give you some ideas.

And should have not looked at it, the pairs and combinations sticky on SI tactical Forums is quite good and a website Cisse promotes guidetofootballmanager - also insightful. Apologies if this is really old news.

Arte the goals varied that you concede, are they all one on ones or are players waltzing through your defence unchecked?
 
Fenris47 said:
Dude, I'm loosely enjoying it now, but only because I reload games where I feel the AI robbed me. Sad, but what else can you do. To clarify this, I do change formation and I do change mentality etc. I'm not purely re starting games just because I lose, as my exit in the Champs league quarters to Bayern (yet again) proves.

I've played through pre season in year 2 numerous times now, testing before I start my second campaign. Making 3 new signings of Ter Stegen, Gino Peruzzi and Ricardo Rodriguez. Gareth Barry on a free also.

I have noticed my team as an whole playing better, when I put everyone on generic positions and switched to fluid, playmakers are sometimes more trouble than there worth imo.

Carzola was my top assist guy last year as a plain inside forward, despite Ozil, Wilshere and Ramsey and some point all being a playmaker.

I wish I had something better to tell you, I'd recommend looking at Cisse tactic on this post, It's very defensively geared, watch it for a few games - might give you some ideas.

And should have not looked at it, the pairs and combinations sticky on SI tactical Forums is quite good and a website Cisse promotes guidetofootballmanager - also insightful. Apologies if this is really old news.

Arte the goals varied that you concede, are they all one on ones or are players waltzing through your defence unchecked?
Click to expand...

Conceding goals from crosses and giving away ccc's to wide players from inside my full back, sometimes they result in goals sometimes they don't. Basically my full backs are not defending well. They are where they should be but constantly doing a Patrice Evra and letting their man go free...
 
Seems to be a flaw in the Me mate, not much can be done. Unless someone wants to correct me because I'd love to hear that one myself.

Are you playing with width? Maybe try and narrow it or if your using contol, use standard. These are some things I've been playing with.

Have you got a decent mixture of roles in central midfield? (again apologies for the inane questioning)
 
The defending is stupid in this game.... In my 1st season i conceded 24 goals in the league now about 15 games in ive conceded 20 with the same defence and ive changed nothing i dont get whats gone wrong
 
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That could be second season syndrome my friend. teams adapt to how you play to counter your style.
 
Can't get over the fact that my best defence is usually overload. F@cking joke.
 
Fenris47 said:
Seems to be a flaw in the Me mate, not much can be done. Unless someone wants to correct me because I'd love to hear that one myself.

Are you playing with width? Maybe try and narrow it or if your using contol, use standard. These are some things I've been playing with.

Have you got a decent mixture of roles in central midfield? (again apologies for the inane questioning)
Click to expand...


I'm actually playing very narrow with standard!!! Deep lying playmaker next to box to box midfielder at central midfield too.
 
XeNoNF50 said:
I'm actually playing very narrow with standard!!! Deep lying playmaker next to box to box midfielder at central midfield too.
Click to expand...

Sounds like ME issue or a tactic switch around might be required, as someone else stated previously.

I might have to drop the Denmark myself, go with either a 4-5-1 or even a 4-2-3-1 deep, which both trained on, but there all very similar in layout. (too similar?) But, how can you can get round it, maybe some role changes or playing mainly on the counter? Or you could try closing down less as personal instruction on your fb's, seen some using that.
 
I have focused on defensive tactics for a while now, playing on counter mentality doesn't at all mean team won't attack, or so I've found. But I got bored and changed to attack and I've to say my defence is good.

The key thing I've found is that in latest ME, (you can even see it in Changelog), they added more balls behind played behind defence and they're usually lofted balls aimed to be played above defence, to tackle this I got frigging tall CBs in Jonathan Tah and Niklas Sule. While they do act like they're clueless, a good tackler with "dives in tackles" PPM makes sure they win the ball when they go for challenges. The only problem occurs when they win the challenge and ball goes to an onrushing opposition player - LOL.

But still, having quality defenders and tall fullbacks seem to do the trick for me, at least for now. I play direct football and no work the ball into box so shooting from range isn't a problem for me. While players with that PPM absolutely take shocking amount of horrible shots, properly used they can be useful. Keep them near opposition box, that PPM acts more like "Tries first time shots".

Now on to what I mentioned in my first sentence, I played with counter mentality but everything else was more attacking. (High line, hassle opponents). Real defensive comes when you stand off opponents for positional advantage.
 
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Aayush, do you set any personal instructions on your defenders or do you have any defence instructions applied throughout? (assuming your stand off opp's was for defensive play only.)
 
I use stand off opponents only when I'm an huge underdog in an away game, not regularly. It'll be similar to what Real Madrid did vs Bayern, did not press back to win the ball just conceded the midfield for positional advantage and kept the shape.

Now I'm 4-5 years in my save and have a very good team so I don't use Stand off anymore. And no I don't have any defensive instructions for defenders, just play narrow.

I've built my teams around the idea of breaking forward at pace and catching teams off guard instead of dominating the play and penetrating, maybe that's why I seem to have better defence. Even though I play with attack mentality.
 
Fenris47 said:
Sounds like ME issue or a tactic switch around might be required, as someone else stated previously.

I might have to drop the Denmark myself, go with either a 4-5-1 or even a 4-2-3-1 deep, which both trained on, but there all very similar in layout. (too similar?) But, how can you can get round it, maybe some role changes or playing mainly on the counter? Or you could try closing down less as personal instruction on your fb's, seen some using that.
Click to expand...

Nah, my attacks are too potent to switch formations. I've got the right blend of movement, runs off players who are in an opportune moment to pass it. I think I may have solved (for the most part) the defensive issues. Been messing with things and it got better. Now I started to use opposition instructions from assistant too to great effect. Was giving away chances on corners (both attacking and def) so solved them too in my most recent games. Worth noting that I took over as Arsenal manager so I'm no longer Wigan but I'm 18 games into the season and have kept 9 clean sheets, conceding just 10 goals. The game I conceded 2 in finished 5-2! Since i made the switch with opposition instructions I've won 3-0 3-0 and 4-1 vs Sampdoria Everton and Tottenham, the Spurs goal coming from a long Aaron Lennon shot when we were already 4-0 up and 8 cccs created vs Everton!

My def is as follows:
Team: Hassle opponents and play narrow with rigid and standard fluidity and mentality
full backs sit narrow and close down more
centre backs mark tigher
central midfielders mark tighter close down less
nothing for wingers but i use wide midfielder setting
attacking midfielder mark tighter
 
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Retained the Epl title, playing better. Got a better handle on reading the opponents changes aswell. which helped a lot. The Me is not broken, but I insist the the Ai is too smart for its own good at times.

Year 2 team,

gk - ter Stegen
Dr Peruzzi
Dc Mertersacker
Dc Bartra
Dl Rodriquez
Mcd Bender
Mcs Ramsey/Wilshere
Aml Draxler
Amc Ozil
Amr Ox
Af Giroud

Playing usually in standard on balanced, roaming, more expressive and pass out of defence. Might shuffle these around at times. Get stuck in or direct passing if I drop to counter.

I'm having the same issues however that I had on FM13, central midfielders with low averages. Both Bender and Ramsey have low 7.0 average, one bad game and their a 6. Ramsey contributes little as a MC s 1 goal and 3 assists in 20+ matches. Bender as 3 goals, no assists and averages 1 tackle a game. nightmare.

My midfield trio is set to regular mc's in the 4321 (denmark) Bender on defence and Ramsey on support. Right wing is winger support and left is inside forward also support. (width from lb - wingback attack). Ozil sits ahead of them as a Advanced playmaker attack behind and advanced forward.

Is every experienceing poor ratings? I've googled it and seen mixed answers.

I'm wondering if there are better roles to pay them in or individual instructions that enrich their play, if possible to improve their ratings and input (goals and assists). Any ideas? Short of setting them as penalty takers or freekicks, I'm struggling with it.
 
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