England v Wales, Wembley, Tuesday 6 September 7.45pm

[Mike.]

lets wait and see....



so germany should have settled for a 1-0 win? if i were german id be more happy that we tried to play and get a better result and snatched a win after conceeding than playing out a 1-0 win. id prefer to win 2-1 playing well all the way through than winning 1-0 and playing bad keep ball for half a game.



the fact is they rave about us when we havent been particularly pleasing but got a good result. thats bad news cause it overhypes our play, making us think we've done well.

the fact they came forward in the second half should have meant it was us hitting them on the counter, which just didnt happen. we did nothing in that second half.

to be honest, and this is nothing personal against you because its what everyone seems to beleive, this is exactly why we will not win a major trophy as a nation. The mentality of 'that'll do'

lets do what we're good at, and lets be honest, thats not playing keep ball. we arent technically good enough to do it. lets play normally for 90 minutes and see what happens

in a qualifier, plenty of top teams take that attitude, France settled for an away draw, Italy for an even scrappier win than ours. I'd rather play **** and qualify, then sort it in friendlies after than play well, but **** it up and not qualify at all. There were good an bad points from tonight.

And to say we arent technically good enough is wrong. pure and simple, because we are.

 

[Jamie.]

On the bright side that was (hopefully) Capello's last game at Wembley, I feel like the night pretty much summed up his reign.

England 'did enough' but looked careless and complacent with a touch of arrogance.

Counting down the days until Redknapp comes in and (Insert phrase here)'s the ship.

 

[TJD07]

I see where Harriers is coming from, it does **** me off when we play brilliantly for 45-60minutes and end up say 2-0 up.
We then just shut up shop and sit back trying to keep the ball, but all we end up doing is messing up a stupid pass or punting the ball upfield and then sit back whilst the other team attacks.

It's ***** to watch and half the time doesn't work at all, it happens all the time and it ends up with us trying to grind out results where would should really be sitting strong.

You can mention how Italy did it or whatever but Italy have always been that way, they used to sit back play counter attacking football and take 1-0 wins all the time. Plus France have been horrid so them settling for a draw doesn't suprise me at all.

Not many of the clubs which players come from play that way at all and it just shows when they do it.

 

[Joel`]

I see where Harriers is coming from, it does **** me off when we play brilliantly for 45-60minutes and end up say 2-0 up.
We then just shut up shop and sit back trying to keep the ball, but all we end up doing is messing up a stupid pass or punting the ball upfield and then sit back whilst the other team attacks.

It's ***** to watch and half the time doesn't work at all, it happens all the time and it ends up with us trying to grind out results where would should really be sitting strong.

You can mention how Italy did it or whatever but Italy have always been that way, they used to sit back play counter attacking football and take 1-0 wins all the time. Plus France have been horrid so them settling for a draw doesn't suprise me at all.

Not many of the clubs which players come from play that way at all and it just shows when they do it.

France aren't doing horrid, they've been resurgent under Blanc.

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

no i dont, im saying san marino should get beat 11-0 by everyone, but we wont do that. We'll win and win easily, but by 4 goals

and a team like germany know what we're all about....the same as we still are...the mentality of a win is a win and thats good enough. Look where thats led us, they beat us 4-1 in the World Cup right? So in terms of psychology, that perception of us isnt working, or has little to no affect. So why not try a different approach?

I see what your saying about the media, they would get on Englands back if we conceeded, or dropped points. But the fact is they're not raving about the performance either cause in the 2nd half we didnt do ourselves justice. Bulgaria looked much more likely to score in the second half than they did in the 1st, that says something to me that trying to absorb and just play the game out doesnt work. When we played properly they didnt do anything to worry us. im more displeased that they had more chances in that 2nd half because we let them. we could easily have conceeded 3 that way.

We lost 4-1 to them because they outclassed us in a tired formation, with a midfield of Gerrard and Lampard that has never been successful, Psychology has nothing to do with it. Just because we didn't "send out a message" doesn't mean it's the reason we lost. I'm fairly sure we didn't pray to the half-dolphin, half-gorilla God - Zigbugido. Perhaps if we prayed to Zigibugido we would have won that World Cup!

And that's my point about the media, they don't know how to deal with proper analysis - they just resort to wild exaggerations and hyperbole , because that's what sells their papers. If they win convincingly then they're suddenly favourites for the next tournament, if they lose the game after, they're useless wastes of space that don't care for the shirt, and we'd be better off getting Dave from the pub to come play because he'd show some passion and work ethic. Sigh.

 

[TJD07]

France aren't doing horrid, they've been resurgent under Blanc.

If you look at them over the last few tournaments they have been, after 06 they've not made it out the group stages.

Although Blanc has taken them a long way since what they were like in the WC 2010.

They have a pretty easy group in the Euros and they've not exactly found it easy.
Granted they've beaten both England and Brazil but both were friendly games.

 

[Mike.]

If you look at them over the last few tournaments they have been, after 06 they've not made it out the group stages.

Although Blanc has taken them a long way since what they were like in the WC 2010.

They have a pretty easy group in the Euros and they've not exactly found it easy.
Granted they've beaten both England and Brazil but both were friendly games.

They are actually coming back well and rebuilding like us. You cant just pick and choose which top teams to compare us too

 

[TJD07]

They are actually coming back well and rebuilding like us. You cant just pick and choose which top teams to compare us too

I never compaired England to France, I don't see the point in doing so because they're completely different.
Which is what I said earlier in regards to the Italian result, they've pretty much always played a defensive style and it does them well because their players are used to it.

Also I agree that France are coming back just they have a long way still to go IMO. They're a lot better than they have been during the last two big tournaments, but still short of what they "should" be.

 

[Mike.]

I never compaired England to France, I don't see the point in doing so because they're completely different.
Which is what I said earlier in regards to the Italian result, they've pretty much always played a defensive style and it does them well because their players are used to it.

Also I agree that France are coming back just they have a long way still to go IMO. They're a lot better than they have been during the last two big tournaments, but still short of what they "should" be.

We are still rebuilding, and we are a point away from qualifying, it wasn't great but we won. Which for now is better than playing well and losing, because that wont get you into the EUROs. pro and cons from last night. We are much better when we stay on the front foot, we also know that either the MC or the AMC requires a genuinely creative possession player.

I cant remember the last time i said this about him, but the 4-2-3-1 last night, craved Gerrard in the hole behind Rooney

 

[Joel`]

We are still rebuilding, and we are a point away from qualifying, it wasn't great but we won. Which for now is better than playing well and losing, because that wont get you into the EUROs. pro and cons from last night. We are much better when we stay on the front foot, we also know that either the MC or the AMC requires a genuinely creative possession player.

I cant remember the last time i said this about him, but the 4-2-3-1 last night, craved Gerrard in the hole behind Rooney

I'm looking forward to Gerrard returning, the new system should actually suit our best midfield players, rather than desperately forcing Lampard and Gerrard into one team. Capello showed he's not afraid of dropping Lampard, so presumably other 'big names' too.

 

[Mike.]

I'm looking forward to Gerrard returning, the new system should actually suit our best midfield players, rather than desperately forcing Lampard and Gerrard into one team. Capello showed he's not afraid of dropping Lampard, so presumably other 'big names' too.

If you play Rooney up front then the AMC needs to be willing to get beyond him, which means Gerrard/Wilshere from the regular side, or even Cleverley

 

[TJD07]

We are still rebuilding, and we are a point away from qualifying, it wasn't great but we won. Which for now is better than playing well and losing, because that wont get you into the EUROs. pro and cons from last night. We are much better when we stay on the front foot, we also know that either the MC or the AMC requires a genuinely creative possession player.

I cant remember the last time i said this about him, but the 4-2-3-1 last night, craved Gerrard in the hole behind Rooney

I agree a win is what matters most.
And we do look much stronger when were front foot, which is why it drives me insane when we take the lead then suddenly switch to a defensive style and try to hold onto the ball. It more often than not leads to us messing up and losing the ball more often than normal.

I've never really rated Lampard at international level, he's a good CM but the main reason he gets into the team is because of his goal scoring.
He pops up in the box and gets onto balls that get played across or back through to him at Chelsea, England hardly play like that which is why he just floats around at times.


Be interesting to see what happens after the Euros, can see alot of our "golden generation" either retiring from internationals or just being dropped.

 

[Mike.]

I agree a win is what matters most.
And we do look much stronger when were front foot, which is why it drives me insane when we take the lead then suddenly switch to a defensive style and try to hold onto the ball. It more often than not leads to us messing up and losing the ball more often than normal.

I've never really rated Lampard at international level, he's a good CM but the main reason he gets into the team is because of his goal scoring.
He pops up in the box and gets onto balls that get played across or back through to him at Chelsea, England hardly play like that which is why he just floats around at times.


Be interesting to see what happens after the Euros, can see alot of our "golden generation" either retiring from internationals or just being dropped.

Agreed on Lampard. Not his fault, but we just dont play that way

 

[alicwkd]

I'm looking forward to Gerrard returning, the new system should actually suit our best midfield players, rather than desperately forcing Lampard and Gerrard into one team. Capello showed he's not afraid of dropping Lampard, so presumably other 'big names' too.

I agree, IMO Wilshere Parker Rooney behind Bent is our best bet however. I just think Rooney is at his best in the hole as he can influence the game more.

 

[GodCubed]

I agree, IMO Wilshere Parker Rooney behind Bent is our best bet however. I just think Rooney is at his best in the hole as he can influence the game more.

Wait, what? Wilshere Parker and Rooney behind Bent? :S

 

[Mike.]

Wait, what? Wilshere Parker and Rooney behind Bent? :S

I like it, wonderful midfield triangle, with Young and Downing on the flanks

 

[GodCubed]

I like it, wonderful midfield triangle, with Young and Downing on the flanks

Oooooh I get it now. A 4-2-3-1 with Wilshere and Parker deep. The way he said it seemed to imply that Wilshere, Parker and Rooney were going to be the three behind Bent in the attack.

 

[TJD07]

Oooooh I get it now. A 4-2-3-1 with Wilshere and Parker deep. The way he said it seemed to imply that Wilshere, Parker and Rooney were going to be the three behind Bent in the attack.

I thought the same, Parkey and Wilshere out wide?

 

[Mike.]

I thought the same, Parkey and Wilshere out wide?

Meh if we end up with Redknapp, it could happen...