Euro 2012 Match Discussion Thread

[Quasit]

Looks better than be 90 min in game and do not score?

And what if he starts next game does nothing and doesnt score? RVP contributes to game much more than Huntelaar and especially with Afellay works really well.

Main problem that Dutch had in that game was that they used 2 Defensive Midfielders instead of either Strootman or Van der Vaart in middle. Sneijder drifter to left a lot cos he got no service through middle.

 

[insanity]

Well, my point is that Netherlands had a lot of "good" chances. So they do not really need a striker that contributes to the game. In fact they have enough creativity in the mid. I think this Holland team would play much, much better with van der Vaart, Huntelaar and the ex Liverpool winger (forgot the name right now) instead of Affelay, Roben and van Persie.

I ve seen 2 recent games of Netherlands. First against Bulgaria in a friendly, they were even more appalling. It is just not the poor defense. According to me it is the fancy attack that does nothing in the end.

 

[GodCubed]

If anyone wants, here's some analysis from Day 1. I linked rather than posted to prevent this page becoming toast under the sheer weight of letters and huge but pretty diagrams.

Looking forward to today. Just need to watch the match I missed yesterday due to me being out drinking and then I'll be up to speed.

 

[Quasit]

Well, my point is that Netherlands had a lot of "good" chances. So they do not really need a striker that contributes to the game. In fact they have enough creativity in the mid. I think this Holland team would play much, much better with van der Vaart, Huntelaar and the ex Liverpool winger (forgot the name right now) instead of Affelay, Roben and van Persie.

I ve seen 2 recent games of Netherlands. First against Bulgaria in a friendly, they were even more appalling. It is just not the poor defense. According to me it is the fancy attack that does nothing in the end.

Yes they had. Sneijder had 10 key passes in that game. They had lot of bad luck there also. RVP losing his footing with that clear chance. 9/10 he would have scored from that. Robben hitting post was perhaps their best chance. Huntelaar also had amazing chance, but couldn't lift the ball over keeper.

You should've seen Dutch play against N. Ireland and you'd understand why Afellay and RVP play instead of Huntelaar and Kuyt. Their link up play is amazing and together they tore N. Ireland with slight help from Sneijder. Game died down when Huntelaar came on and he couldn't link up with Afellay as well as RVP did.

Kuyt is good player to have, but he's far from game winner like which Afellay and Robben can be.

 

[zzeezzy]

If anyone wants, here's some analysis from Day 1. I linked rather than posted to prevent this page becoming toast under the sheer weight of letters and huge but pretty diagrams.

Looking forward to today. Just need to watch the match I missed yesterday due to me being out drinking and then I'll be up to speed.

Both good games today in different aspects really, Italy and Spain two big dogs in the group and would most likely be settled with a draw whereas the other game Ireland v Croatia, the losers of that game are surely out of the tournament, must win match for one of them two imo.

I think Italy could bring a supprise against Spain, got a very good defence (well usually, the last few friendlies they have been torn apart). But when they are under pressure and in a big tournament they usually respond with a solid showing, maybe they can do it again. Not to mention Pirlo :wub:.

 

[GodCubed]

Both good games today in different aspects really, Italy and Spain two big dogs in the group and would most likely be settled with a draw whereas the other game Ireland v Croatia, the losers of that game are surely out of the tournament, must win match for one of them two imo.

I think Italy could bring a supprise against Spain, got a very good defence (well usually, the last few friendlies they have been torn apart). But when they are under pressure and in a big tournament they usually respond with a solid showing, maybe they can do it again. Not to mention Pirlo :wub:.

Pirlo will be vital. If he's given enough time and space he will pick apart Spain's offside trap from deep.

 

[GodCubed]

In unrelated news, I miss Nikopolidis.

 

[jacobyte]

Seen on sky news, Russian fans had fight with stewards after there team win and police investigateing incident, could be repocussions to Russia for this.

 

[maxy67]

Pirlo will be vital. If he's given enough time and space he will pick apart Spain's offside trap from deep.

If he does anything like this then Spain will find it very hard to cope with his passing.

[video=youtube;zixwzJ3x5mU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zixwzJ3x5mU[/video]

 

[Tyton]

Pirlo's long range passing scares me. I always secretely suspected he is actually a cyborg and has computer in his head. That being said, Italy's alleged superb defense is a cliche from the past, they're nowhere near where they used to be.

In fact a lot of top teams have a bit of trouble at the back, to the point where i would rate England's back 4+GK as potentially best in the tournament. Who would believed that a year ago.

 

[GodCubed]

If he does anything like this then Spain will find it very hard to cope with his passing.

[video=youtube;zixwzJ3x5mU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zixwzJ3x5mU[/video]

That pass at 1:44 is ridiculous.

 

[Quasit]

Pirlo's long range passing scares me. I always secretely suspected he is actually a cyborg and has computer in his head. That being said, Italy's alleged superb defense is a cliche from the past, they're nowhere near where they used to be.

In fact a lot of top teams have a bit of trouble at the back, to the point where i would rate England's back 4+GK as potentially best in the tournament. Who would believed that a year ago.

True they dont have Maldini, Nesta or Baresi kind of players, but still they conceded the least goals in qualifying stage. Even without the great players of past their defense is far superior to English.

 

[Dunc]

True they dont have Maldini, Nesta or Baresi kind of players, but still they conceded the least goals in qualifying stage. Even without the great players of past their defense is far superior to English.

Didn't realise they were playing v England, or why they even need to be compared, or if anyone even said England have a better defence!?

End of the day, today they need a better defence than the Spanish attack, and a better attack than the Spanish defence, and they have neither.

 

[Quasit]

Didn't realise they were playing v England, or why they even need to be compared, or if anyone even said England have a better defence!?

End of the day, today they need a better defence than the Spanish attack, and a better attack than the Spanish defence, and they have neither.

Tyton rated English defence perhaps best in tournament in which I replied Italy's defence is superior to English. Cant teams be compared even if they dont play against each other?

 

[Dunc]

Tyton rated English defence perhaps best in tournament in which I replied Italy's defence is superior to English. Cant teams be compared even if they dont play against each other?

Sure, but it just seems odd that you would have picked England to compare them to when I would think Spain and France both have superior defensive line ups compared to England.

Comparing the two defensive lineups of Italy and England, I would say that they are pretty close in individual talent in most areas. It's been a while since we have had a keeper that is anywhere close to Buffons ability. I would hardly class it as 'far superior' in favour of the Italians.

 

[Quasit]

Sure, but it just seems odd that you would have picked England to compare them to when I would think Spain and France both have superior defensive line ups compared to England.

Comparing the two defensive lineups of Italy and England, I would say that they are pretty close in individual talent in most areas. It's been a while since we have had a keeper that is anywhere close to Buffons ability. I would hardly class it as 'far superior' in favour of the Italians.

Individual skill pretty much even I agree, but italians are better unit. Still far superior is bit much, but I think they are superior. Not best defence in tournament which I think goes to Germany.

I personally rate English defence better than Spain. French are perhaps slightly better than english, but Mexes has been liability lately and if they use him with Rami they are weaker than english imo.

 

[Dunc]

Individual skill pretty much even I agree, but italians are better unit. Still far superior is bit much, but I think they are superior. Not best defence in tournament which I think goes to Germany.

I personally rate English defence better than Spain. French are perhaps slightly better than english, but Mexes has been liability lately and if they use him with Rami they are weaker than english imo.

I suppose with Puyol missing, the Spanish defence will be slightly weaker. Ramos and Pique are a pretty quick and tall back pairing, but the full backs are a bit lacking. I would rather have the Spanish centre backs with the English full backs. The German defence looked decent last night, had the odd scare, but looked solid against a decent attacking team.

We will have to see how the Italian defence performs tonight, considering their performance against the Russians where they were a shambles, they need to vastly improve on that to keep the Spanish out.

 

[Quasit]

I suppose with Puyol missing, the Spanish defence will be slightly weaker. Ramos and Pique are a pretty quick and tall back pairing, but the full backs are a bit lacking. I would rather have the Spanish centre backs with the English full backs. The German defence looked decent last night, had the odd scare, but looked solid against a decent attacking team.

We will have to see how the Italian defence performs tonight, considering their performance against the Russians where they were a shambles, they need to vastly improve on that to keep the Spanish out.

They crumbled only after Buffon was substituted. He's the most important figure in their defence.

Also Ramos and Pique dont get along very well, but question is does it show on field.

Most important battle will be on midfield. Can Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchisio and Montolivo contain Spain and then can they supply Cassano and Balotelli.

 

[GodCubed]

Didn't realise they were playing v England, or why they even need to be compared, or if anyone even said England have a better defence!?

End of the day, today they need a better defence than the Spanish attack, and a better attack than the Spanish defence, and they have neither.

You're oversimplifying it. Here, let me draw 7 diagram with fifty arrows and shaded positional changes.

I'm being facetious, obviously, but it won't be as straightforward as that. I expect a very tight, cagey game, and I expect it to be boring. The side that will win is the side that can get their full-backs forward better (arguably Italy) or can take advantage of the opposition full-backs moving forward (almost certainly Italy) so they've got a good chance in my books.

 

[Tyton]

True they dont have Maldini, Nesta or Baresi kind of players, but still they conceded the least goals in qualifying stage. Even without the great players of past their defense is far superior to English.

Oh i don't mean their defense is bad. They're good, but they're not bang-my-head-against-wall-after-Cannavaro-does-100th-impossible-tackle kind of good.

All in all you can hardly say they raise above other teams in defensive formation. Spain may have been great a year ago, but with Puyol out and Pique focused more on banging Shakira than on football, not so much. Germans just have Lahm and Neuer who i would rate worldclass, with Hummels coming close. The other 2 guys are erratic and Portugal terrorised them badly in last 15 minutes.

France's defense played badly in the friendlies ,and Dutch overall arent too stellar in the back .

With all that in mind i would rate England's back four + Joe Hart surprisngly solid, i think its the midfield that might ultimately be England's doom.