Formation is irrelevant. Barcelona plays 4-4-3, Spain plays 4-6-0 etc.. and I agree, having a lot of possession doesn't mean you will win, but it gives you better chances.
Euro 2012 Match Discussion Thread
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Not irrelevant, look at England for example against Italy and France, totally outnumbered in the middle of the park with an old fashioned 4-4-2 when other teams were using 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-1-3-2 etc.Formation is irrelevant. Barcelona plays 4-4-3, Spain plays 4-6-0 etc.. and I agree, having a lot of possession doesn't mean you will win, but it gives you better chances.
It is not the amount of possession you have it's what you do with it. For example, today was Spain's worst game in terms of possession, but their best in terms of chance creation, excitement and scoreline.
The criticism of England should not be that we only had 30% possession or whatever, but that we did not use that 30% effectively. 70% possession =/= 70% chance of a win, in fact there have been quite a few studies that show the opposite, that possession is negatively correlated with no. of wins.
The criticism of England should not be that we only had 30% possession or whatever, but that we did not use that 30% effectively. 70% possession =/= 70% chance of a win, in fact there have been quite a few studies that show the opposite, that possession is negatively correlated with no. of wins.
Amazing how quickly peoples opinions of Spain can change in 2 hours! Spain were very good today and deserved to win.. But in all honesty, Italy looked tired which made it a lot easier for Spain to play their way.
Apart from Spain won 4-0 against Italy.. We lost on penalties?as a neutral fan i have to stay that Spain were amazing today they made Italy look like England.
Italy are still the team of the tournament for me personally despite losing today in the final.
They played some cracking stuff at times and exceeded all expectations and I thought Italy were probably the better team up to the3rd goal by Spain but they were much more clinical than the Italians.
But I thought all in all Italy were still in it when they had 11 men even at 2-0 to Spain, I really like how Italy have adapted to a new style under Prandelli, England should take something from this. Oh and before I get someone saying "we can't play with the ball, we do not have as good players with the ball". Take a look at Swansea, it is possible with the right coaching and system, needs work and we have good players with the ball coming through despite what people say, so it could happen.
They played some cracking stuff at times and exceeded all expectations and I thought Italy were probably the better team up to the3rd goal by Spain but they were much more clinical than the Italians.
But I thought all in all Italy were still in it when they had 11 men even at 2-0 to Spain, I really like how Italy have adapted to a new style under Prandelli, England should take something from this. Oh and before I get someone saying "we can't play with the ball, we do not have as good players with the ball". Take a look at Swansea, it is possible with the right coaching and system, needs work and we have good players with the ball coming through despite what people say, so it could happen.
Yep the result does not really reflect the play until 60th minute. It could be 2:0 for Italy easily. However Spain deserved to win this game. I am glad with Italy's performance in this tournament, they definetely brough the attention with their football despite all the drama and fitness problems around their team.
Which brings me to the question, how comes Spain were so fresh and did not have any injuries trough the whole tournament.
Which brings me to the question, how comes Spain were so fresh and did not have any injuries trough the whole tournament.
Yeah, *Irony On* hope England gets some friendlies soon so we can see real crackin' footballBoring, boring Spain.
That's the Spain I like to watch. Nowhere near as much possession, but it was quality attacking possession. 4-0 seemed unfair to Italy in the end, especially as Motta got injured and they were down to 10 men (terrible luck), but it happens. Clinical finishing is what matters, and Spain took their chances.
Italy looked very tired, shame really as I think it effected their performance, felt really sorry for Pirlo at the end, tears in his eyes, he had an amazing tournament, hope we see him at the World Cup. Who is going to be the man who finally replaces him for Italy national team when he steps down? Anyone upcoming? Not sure if you are Italian sorry lol.Yep the result does not really reflect the play until 60th minute. It could be 2:0 for Italy easily. However Spain deserved to win this game. I am glad with Italy's performance in this tournament, they definetely brough the attention with their football despite all the drama and fitness problems around their team.
Which brings me to the question, how comes Spain were so fresh and did not have any injuries trough the whole tournament.
Quite frankly, whoever said Spain are Boring, Not as good as they used to be, Teams working them out ETC
Have no idea... I could only dream of England being anything near Spain.
Have no idea... I could only dream of England being anything near Spain.
We need a manager to implement the system and ideas/willingness to do it first. No offence to Hodgson but we never going to be anything other than two banks of four playing on the counter with him in charge.Quite frankly, whoever said Spain are Boring, Not as good as they used to be, Teams working them out ETC
Have no idea... I could only dream of England being anything near Spain.
It can be done with any team if you want to play that way if you have the right coach who implements the correct tactic/system and of course it will take time but you can do it if you try, Swansea for example.
Not always true. First of all, you need to have players who can do it. Secondly, you need to be playing opponent who cant do it better then you. Italy actually had more possesion today for most of a game - have another good look at the final score.and I agree, having a lot of possession doesn't mean you will win, but it gives you better chances.
"Posession football" is a complete buzzword. Just take a look at Spain in this tournament. They played slow tempo when they needed it. They played high tempo when they needed it. They also played very simple and direct when they needed it.
Yeah mantaining possession and distributing the ball around is one of key elements of football nowadays. But another key element is using your strength , exploiting opponent weaknessess, all adjusted to the situation at hand.
Not some one-size-fits-all "possesion football"
Considering what Italy did to the Germans, you give side the little credit. Actually Mario didnt miss chance after chance. Bayern had 3 really good chances, the rest were much more difficult, and every single one of Robbens attackes were stopped in the exact same place. Chelsea were not all that lucky.Inter Milan yes, Chelsea no. How lucky did they get, the opposition created tons of chances against Chelsea in the semi and in the final. It was a lot down to luck, Mario Gomez missing chance after chance, you can't rely on that kind of luck (opposition not taking their chances) to win consistently at top level of football.
England need to work on keeping the ball, not chasing the ball around and being content with an average of 38% possession over a tournament, just above Greece, absolutely awful.
Oh and England also playing this way got lucky even to go to penalties against Italy, could of been 3 or 4 nil to Italy easily.
Hodgson either needs to focus on having more possession or he will do absolutely nothing again next tournament, you may do well against teams like Sweden/Ukraine playing this way, but against any opponent with real quality you simply can't let them have so much control over a game and expect to win. Or do what England done the other night, absolutely exhaust themselves because they were chasing the ball for so long and practically playing for penalties.
Hodgson doesnt need to focus on more possession, he needs to focus of effective use of the ball, we struggle at constructing attacks. Doesnt matter if we have 38 or 68 posession, if you can construct and score off your attacks, you will win.
Verratti if he joins Juve asap and gets under the wing of Pirlo. Otherwise they will need to change the system here and there, but De Rossi and Montolivo are not bad replacements to Pirlo. Not so technical and smart, but both of them got other advantages over Pirlo.Italy looked very tired, shame really as I think it effected their performance, felt really sorry for Pirlo at the end, tears in his eyes, he had an amazing tournament, hope we see him at the World Cup. Who is going to be the man who finally replaces him for Italy national team when he steps down? Anyone upcoming? Not sure if you are Italian sorry lol.
And the you need the players argument, Swansea pretty much quashed them theories
Leon Britton probably the stand out player achieved statistics on par with Pirlo, Xavi ETC has been hovering around the football league all his career!
Is all about training, coaching and the belief that style of play will work
Swansea's team is nothing special, they have players who have been championship standard mos their careers, yet they played most teams off the park last year!
Now add Rooney, Gerrard, Welbeck, Chamberlain, Parker, Young .. players who are of higher quality, should be able to pass a ball 5 yards and keep it!
Leon Britton probably the stand out player achieved statistics on par with Pirlo, Xavi ETC has been hovering around the football league all his career!
Is all about training, coaching and the belief that style of play will work
Swansea's team is nothing special, they have players who have been championship standard mos their careers, yet they played most teams off the park last year!
Now add Rooney, Gerrard, Welbeck, Chamberlain, Parker, Young .. players who are of higher quality, should be able to pass a ball 5 yards and keep it!
You still havent understood why he used 4-4-2, or even the concept of 4-4-2. It was never used in the attempt of controlling the ball, but as means of defence. The 4-4-2, once it drops into two banks of four, is very hard to break down. As every single side found when they played. France didnt get a shot off inside out box, Sweden scored from 2 defensive errors rather than build up, Ukraine only real chance was offside, and only Italy really looked like they could unlock it. The last time a 4-4-2 was used as a true means of dominating possession was under Sacchi.Not irrelevant, look at England for example against Italy and France, totally outnumbered in the middle of the park with an old fashioned 4-4-2 when other teams were using 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-1-3-2 etc.
Right except they have been practising that method week in week out for months on end. Roy had two weeks. The comparisons are completely, utterly, totally null and void.And the you need the players argument, Swansea pretty much quashed them theories
Leon Britton probably the stand out player achieved statistics on par with Pirlo, Xavi ETC has been hovering around the football league all his career!
Is all about training, coaching and the belief that style of play will work
Swansea's team is nothing special, they have players who have been championship standard mos their careers, yet they played most teams off the park last year!
Now add Rooney, Gerrard, Welbeck, Chamberlain, Parker, Young .. players who are of higher quality, should be able to pass a ball 5 yards and keep it!
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Its their "control the game and don't exhaust yourself unless absolutely neccessary" brand of football from earlier stages. Italy outclassed Germans but they left their legs and lungs on the pitch that day.Which brings me to the question, how comes Spain were so fresh and did not have any injuries trough the whole tournament.
They were actually in 3 games. They could have been easily gone in their game against Napoli. Do not tell me that you were not shocked when they got over Napoli. The win over Barca was a pure luck. Heck Milan played twice better than Chelsea, but did not have the luck. Bayern did not miss much although they controlled the game, however they missed a penalty and then Chelsea won on penalties - now tell me that is not based on luck...again.Considering what Italy did to the Germans, you give side the little credit. Actually Mario didnt miss chance after chance. Bayern had 3 really good chances, the rest were much more difficult, and every single one of Robbens attackes were stopped in the exact same place. Chelsea were not all that lucky.
Hodgson doesnt need to focus on more possession, he needs to focus of effective use of the ball, we struggle at constructing attacks. Doesnt matter if we have 38 or 68 posession, if you can construct and score off your attacks, you will win.
Yup constructing attacks. Will be hard tough with this quick tempo, long balls style with which Chelsea won the CL. I would say that the current English pool was not good and soon with the new guys that are comming England could have some better success.