Fm13 Possession tactic discussion thread by Raikan007

Raikan007

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Welcome to Fm-base and Fm13 discussion and help thread regarding possession!





As many of you are intrigued by possession based tactics I thought I would start this thread so that we could discuss possession tactics and how to go about creating them for yourself without having to download anyone else's
Some people make specific Barca tactics for Barca only but possession is not all about replicating Barca or making a tactic that resembles their formation etc, its about retaining possession and creating scoring chances:

The four part system consists of the following components which are being integrated at the moment:




  1. [*=center]Possession (not adament on getting 1 player over 100 passes, the more passers of the ball the better)
    [*=center]Creating CCC's (clear cut chances) while remaining in possession of the ball

    [*=center]Operating defensively while incorporating points 1&2

    [*=center]Playing in the opponents half
In this thread we will look at player roles, formations, team instructions, opposition formations, home or away, pitch dimensions, touchline shouts and many many more factors that influence possession tactics


Please note, this is not a thread for anyone to post and show off their possession stats, feel free to post them please but this is not to promote your tactic or show off it is a discussion thread and if you would like feedback from myself or anyone else, feel free to post anything you would like advice or assistance on
this is also not a competition to see who has the most passes as passes are extremely easy to get, its what you do with possession that counts


Things to keep in mind when creating possession tactics:



you dont always have to play extremely narrow and slow, the wider and quicker you play, depending on formation and the players you have will increase passes and possession


  • [*=center]you dont have to have a primary playmaker or target man selected with ball to feet, possession is about team possession, not single players passes
    [*=center]full backs are always going to be involved no matter what you do! the best is to take advantage of them and use them correctly, I have them set to hold up ball, this helps in retaining possession and not giving it away cheaply



  • [*=center]PPM's play a major role in players performing certain tasks during the game, if a player has run with ball often, shoots from distance, switches ball to other flanks, these go against possession tactics and should be avoided, PPM's like: plays one two's, dictates tempo, comes deep, looks for pass rather than shot, simple passes, tries killer balls, moves into channels are all very good to have for your players



  • [*=center]getting passess are easy, you will have to start by getting the possession and that will start from the back like normal, your cb's, keeper and fb's will have the most passes etc, dont worry about that, tweak the formation and instructions as you go to get the ball further up the field, you want to have possession but in their half, not your own as you will not create any chances, the SS below is how it is going to start, as I said, getting the ball higher up in the opponents half is one of the main objectives:










  • [*=center]getting your main players involved like Messi for eg: alot of possession *Barca* tactics I have seen barely have Messi involved at all, 12 passes max a game, try and get each player to have similar amounts of passes, not just one and neglecting the others
    the more passers of the ball the better
    [*=center]dont feel as though you need to get the striker/s involved with the build up play, in order to score goals they need to be the focal point of your attack and should be made to hold up the ball or involved to heavily in build up play
    [*=center]pass and move is the foundation of possession, so this means, playing through balls sometimes and run from deep should be used for your mids/attackers! instead of running with the ball they need to create space by running off it into spaces and channels. This needs to be played around with to find the correct balance for your players and your team
    [*=center]you dont have to focus passing through the middle either, using the whole pitch creates more space and passing options!
    [*=center]when it comes to the passing slider, imagine a circle around the player, 1 click being for eg: 1m passes, the further the slider goes the further and more direct the passes will become!




    [*=center]all players involved in the triangles or passing sphere should have move into channels and even roam from position on to create open spaces to receive the pass, do not use this for central defenders, fullbacks can also be given this option, but be aware of the consequences on defence!
    [*=center]goalkeeper distribution should be defender collect and your best passing defender as the receiver
    [*=center]of course no long shots should be given and run with ball should also be used lightly/sparingly
    [*=center]full backs should be set to support or attack, imagine support being in line with the Dm position and attack being in line with the Cm position, this will be the position of your fullbacks. (get what I am saying)
    [*=center]In order to create more chances, you have to be prepared to sacrifice some possession in order to get the ball in the box for someone to bury it, this is important to understand and accept, it is easy racking up passes but the hard part is converting the possession into goals!
    [*=center]Possession tactics take a while longer to gel with your team, allow for at least 20 games for your team to become accustomed to the tactic



  • [*=center]The more passes the player does and the more successful they are increase his average rating! I have tested it countless times, players with over 80 passes and a pass percentage of 87% plus will always be over 7 regardless!
    [*=center]Playing a very high defensive line is important, you want to peg the opponents in their own half as that is where you should be wanting to play the ball! at least 3/4 of the way up is a good start!
    [*=center]Some possession tactics use a deep line.. it all just depends on your players and the instructions you give them! try different things out and see the results..
    [*=center]With a high defensive line you dont have to play the offside trap, as most of the time your cb's will be sitting on the halfway line, neither do you have to play counter attack as it is not that effective playing with a high line! the deeper you are the better it is playing on the counter and quickly/directly as well!



  • [*=center]Possession is not all about making "triangles" either, having players move into spaces will create these triangles, not actually trying to create them with the formation (even though I do with the Amc)
    [*=center]creative freedom is a very important part of creating a good possession tactic! having the player set to defensive with a high creative freedom and setting all player instructions to NEVER results in high amount of passes! but this should be tested and implemented sparingly... should be used sparingly as for one, it will counter the personal and team instructions you have given! this however should not be set to 0 as it also has a part to play with free role's as it allows the player to move around more freely as well! so use it wisely for the players that will be the main area of your passing!
    [*=center]Time wasting is also important, I use it sometimes, the more you use of it the more your players will hold onto the ball, this will actually prevent passes being made and instead of going forward they players will most of the time play it backwards which is not what you want! so keep that in mind! As well as it being counter productive, it also can be detrimental as players can be caught in possession easily and the opposition can create easy chances!
    [*=center]Holding up the ball should also be used sparingly, have no more than 3 players holding up the ball, this is due to the fact that instead of playing the quick ball that could create a chance, they hang onto it which allows the opposition to get back into position!
    [*=center]there is a lot more to say, hit a bit of a blank now, going to update is as I remember etc

913 passes, 88% possession, 2 CCC's! the best result I have had to date






















Suggested team instructions:



*this is for the classic tactics, this is what I currently use for my teams





Modern Tactic's Suggested team instructions:

Philosophy: Balanced or Fluid (it does not have to be very fluid, thats a farce)
Strategy: Control or attacking, attacking works better for me!


(going to update the SS with the modern tactic's suggestions)


playing Zonal marking and pressing will ensure the team will keep its shape, I ensure that tight marking is also selected in player instructions!

For closing down (the thing most people have issues with) I have a simple solution that works really well for me, have every player (save for your out and out goalscorer) to close down exactly the same, I have it set to own half but right on the border of whole pitch, this will ensure your team really keep their shape and close down together as a unit and dont get dragged out of position...
or you can set the whole team to close down the entire pitch as well!

Having your striker/s set to tight man marking and setting opposition instructions to close down the defenders is also a good part of a possession tactic, this forces the cb's to hoof the ball clear when your strikers are closing them down, and could even make mistakes if their composure stat is rather low!

Suggested touchline shouts:
*I do not use most of these except hassle, work ball into box when playing modern tactics, the possession tactic I use is made in classic mode and does not use shouts


Retain possession
Work ball into box
Pass to feet
Play out of defence
Play through defence
Hassle opponents
Look for overlap (also good)


Recommended formations:
*I personally use a 433 with two central cm's who drop deep to get the ball and the playmaker Amc with two wingers and a striker

This is my formation and instructions I use on my latest possession tactic!

View attachment 279685

4-3-3 (Amc or Dm)
4-1-2-1-2
4-2-1-2-1
3-3-3-1
3-2-3-1-1


(there are so many different formations out there.. its up to you what works best!

Pitch dimensions:

Well this is up to you, I find that using normal or standard works the best, as mentioned, its not all about playing narrow and on the smallest pitch, please note this plays a large role in possession tactics and should be not be taken lightly.


Opposition Instructions:

*you can leave this to assistant manager but make sure you do the following:

Show all strikers, central mids (cm's and am'cs) on to weaker foot and close down
or

1) show strikers to weaker feet
2) tight mark wide players and show to weaker foot, hard tackling
3) close down central mids and show to weaker feet
4) close down cb's and show to weaker feet


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

please feel free to ask anything regarding possession tactics here, please feel free to use anything from any of my tactics for your own and I look forward to seeing your progress in creating a great possession tactic


thanks, Neil

 

Triv

Toffeepops are incredible
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**** me, somebody had their Weetabix!!

I love the idea of possession tactics but it seems so difficult to get those all-important CCC's with high ball retention. I hope the FM13 match engine is a little more giving.
 

Raikan007

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I have also updated it from my experiences with Fm12.. I am quite certain the engine (especially on the default patch) would be similar and the same settings will always apply :)

thanks all :) enjoy Fm13
 

Hazza22299

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I have also updated it from my experiences with Fm12.. I am quite certain the engine (especially on the default patch) would be similar and the same settings will always apply :)

thanks all :) enjoy Fm13
One major change is the fact that players can no longer run through other players like last time. This is the main difference to the game and drastically affects the corner exploit. The ball movement also may change some aspects of keeping the ball.
 

liamboyall7

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I have found the 4-4-2 seems to keep the ball quite successfully, tried to use one of my fm12 possession tactics which would usually have 70-85 % possession but this does now not work at all.
 

Raikan007

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I have found the 4-4-2 seems to keep the ball quite successfully, tried to use one of my fm12 possession tactics which would usually have 70-85 % possession but this does now not work at all.
442 works as well, its better with MR and ML than AMR and AML though I feel! I have made a good 433 with 3 strikers and 3 central mids possession tactic as well..

I hope you can get it to work on Fm13 :) good luck!
 

liamboyall7

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Yes I too have found that MR & ML work far better than if they are AMR/AML ... Also a deep lying playmaker and an advanced play maker are working really well together too for possession.
 

yipster

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Jun 25, 2010
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taking this for a spin, always liked to be able to play on possession just never knew how to develop it into a tactic since i'm such a newbie at it xD
 

Raikan007

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taking this for a spin, always liked to be able to play on possession just never knew how to develop it into a tactic since i'm such a newbie at it xD
good luck mate :) have fun and don't give up.. it might a take a while if you are not used to designing possession tactics..

feel free to ask anything, that is why this thread is here!
 

ajt09

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Oct 23, 2009
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View attachment 279738View attachment 279739View attachment 279740View attachment 279741View attachment 279742


Using Blackburn Rovers, I went for a flat 4-4-2, normal width, retain possession, work ball into box, fairly quick tempo, retain possession, attacking mentality. Had the FBs providing support, CD's staying back in limited/covering defender role. Also used fluid and more expressive and more roaming mentality. Safe to say it isn't all that effective compared to when i used it in FM 12 where I used to wipe the floor. Though the crossing is absolutely appalling right now, with an average completion of 20%, though the opposition is not much better with an average of 25-30%. Chose to go with floating the crosses and using mixed passing type

Definately need to improve. After reading the wizards OP will defo be doing some adjusting.

The opponents were Norwich (lost 2-1 aet), Brighton (won 1-0), Leicester (won 2-1), Watford (lost 3-2), Wolves (drew 1-1). So as you can see the scoring chances created are pretty low (though the number of shots is high, offset with low accuracy)

Edit-forgot to mention used play through defence instruction too
 
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Raikan007

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Feb 6, 2009
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View attachment 279738View attachment 279739View attachment 279740View attachment 279741View attachment 279742


Using Blackburn Rovers, I went for a flat 4-4-2, normal width, retain possession, work ball into box, fairly quick tempo, retain possession, attacking mentality. Had the FBs providing support, CD's staying back in limited/covering defender role. Also used fluid and more expressive and more roaming mentality. Safe to say it isn't all that effective compared to when i used it in FM 12 where I used to wipe the floor. Though the crossing is absolutely appalling right now, with an average completion of 20%, though the opposition is not much better with an average of 25-30%. Chose to go with floating the crosses and using mixed passing type

Definately need to improve. After reading the wizards OP will defo be doing some adjusting.

The opponents were Norwich (lost 2-1 aet), Brighton (won 1-0), Leicester (won 2-1), Watford (lost 3-2), Wolves (drew 1-1). So as you can see the scoring chances created are pretty low (though the number of shots is high, offset with low accuracy)

Edit-forgot to mention used play through defence instruction too
it seems like the keepers settings for distribution have not been set and passing is set to long! set the keeper to pass to the best passing central defender instead of hoofing it upfield.. will add more possession and you will retain the ball better...

lol, did you just call me wizard? :p

see if any of the tips help in the OP :) good luck, look forward to seeing the development!
 

ajt09

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Oct 23, 2009
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it seems like the keepers settings for distribution have not been set and passing is set to long! set the keeper to pass to the best passing central defender instead of hoofing it upfield.. will add more possession and you will retain the ball better...

lol, did you just call me wizard? :p

see if any of the tips help in the OP :) good luck, look forward to seeing the development!
That's the thing-got the passing short. Tried long and it was just...well, losing 5-4 to Kilmarnock speaks volumes lol. just gifted the ball away I'm the type who's always gone for short quick passing. Looked back at the anaylis for the matches some more, and the passing completion rate bare minimum was roughly 83% at worst, and maxed out at 96% at best. Though I suspect because it's beta it's going to very quite a bit. though the worst completion rate was the Watford game when I was 3-0 down by HT, so changed to a 4-1-3-2 and just launched the ball (which nearly worked as I got 2 goals).

yeah called you a wizard lol. Yourself and The Better Half are the tactical maestro's after all lol
 

ajt09

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Oct 23, 2009
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Edit-was actually 4-1-2-3 formation. not that it matters-still lost lol
 

Qonny

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Oct 22, 2012
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Hi,
I'm quite new to the FM franchise (began about 6 months ago with FM 12) but have really grown fond of the game, and since I'm a big Barca fan I'm thinking of creating my own Barca-inspired possession tactic, when FM 13 is released. I've been thinking and researching a lot about which player instructions and team instructions will suit me the most for this particular tactic.

The formation I want to use is the same 4-3-3 that barcelona use. Two rather attack minded fullbacks, one defensive midfielder who is the link between the defence and the attack, two central midfielder with one of them acting as the main playmaker (Xavi) and the other one as a more attacking one. I will use 2 wingers and one central forward dropping deep (Messi).

I'm going to share my thoughts on how I am supposed to go through with this, and I would very much appreciate your thoughts and oppinions on them. Starting with team instructions:
I haven't fully decided whether I'm going to use a controll or an attacking strategy yet. A controlling strategy certainly seems more like Barca, but at the same time, I want them to play an attacking possession game. I'll just have to figure that out later.

I'm probably going to use a fluid philosophy with the passing setting set to the shortest. I'm not going to use "counter" and I will use the advices about time wasting posted on first page of this thread.

I saw you used a midfielder as a target man on one of the screenshots, that's interesting! How will that affect the game?

As for how I want the players to interract:
The fullbacks are going to offer overlapping options for the wingers, and will cross the ball from the byline. They will use a mixed style of passing, since I want them to cross the ball from the short line and into the box.
The central defenders I haven't given much thought yet. They will be pushed up high is all I've decided so far.

The defensive midfielder will give the defenders support as well as the attackers options. He will break up opponents play and start the attack for his own team. He will hold up ball, but wont have much creative freedom.
Both central midfielders will be set to regular CM's, as I don't want them to differ too much from each other, and I also want them to stay in aproximately the same area. The right one will be the playmaker and will also have "hold up ball" as well as a lot of creative freedom. His passes will be set to slightly more than just short, so he occasionaly can shove some long balls up the pitch or to the other side of it. The second CM will have "run from deep" sometimes and will run with the ball sometimes aswell. He will be a bit more attack minded but will always offer an option to pass to and will only try short passes. Think Xavi-Busquets and Iniesta and the way they play together. I don't want neither of the CM's to try too many throughballs, and will therefore only have the through balls setting to "sometimes." I'm quite sure that the right CM will have "support", but I haven't decided about the left one yet.

Can I set "Move into channels" for the midfielders so that they move through the oppoonents gaps on the pitch and offer new options all the time? That would be great.

The wingers will be inside forwards (I think) and I haven't decided whether they should move into channels or cut inside yet. They wont hold up play and they wont have much creative freedom. Their passes will be short, only. The wingers are quite tricky and therefore I haven't really come to a conclusion about them yet.

The central forward will be a trequartista, as this is the closest thing to a false 9 (as far as I know). He will have maximum amount of creative freedom, he will occasionally hold up the ball, his passes will be short and he will sometimes offer through balls. Since this position is the "Messi-position", I will try to replicate the way Messi plays in real life.

That's about all I can come to think about for now. I would very much appreciate all types of feedback on this little project of mine! Thanks.
 

liamboyall7

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Changed to instead having 3 CB's, gone with two full backs and one CB ... V Man Utd, at home, had 67% possession but only drew 3-3 But looking at the passes i had them majority in their half.View attachment 279769
 

yipster

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Jun 25, 2010
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Having trouble with creating chances.I'm using a 4-2-3-1, with 2 CM, 1 AM and 2 wingers.i'm retaining possession quite well, about 65 to 70% during games, it's just that my guys get into the opponents half without much problem but they keep on passing and making triangles around the box without even trying a through ball on the ST. Do i need to adjust the creative freedom of my midfield/wingers and set through balls to often?Kind of confused cause there's a lot to keep mind of when adjusting a tactic and i dont have the brains for it... yet... ;)

edit: Do you need any more info in order to give me some advice? i'd really appreciate it

edit#2: i added a SS of my last away game in the road towards the champions league, seems my wingers, amc and st don't get the ball to often

View attachment 279801
 
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