Football Manager 2015 FAQ and Myth Debunking

[Sherkey]

Spanish Supercup final: Madrid vs Villarreal. I´m Villarreal. Lost in Madrid 3-0 playing poorly. Just five days after that match, i outclass Real Madrid but they manage to score and lost on the away goals rule (4-1 win). I keep on playing but things are not succesful and after a few days i started playing with another tactic and reload the game just the day before the Supercup Final. I lost in Madrid 4-0, playing horrible, with a completely different tactic. Five days after that, i smash Real Madrid but they manage to score and i win 5-1 (so lost again on the away goals). I think this needs an explanation, the procedure is exactly the same with very different elements: tactic, many players, team talks. I think that if i´d lost 8-0 in Madrid i´d win 9-1 in the second leg.

Why exactly does it need an explanation? You reloaded twice or thrice, and got similar results. Why is that so surprising?

 

[sergiolagartija]

Why exactly does it need an explanation? You reloaded twice or thrice, and got similar results. Why is that so surprising?

It´s not a case of reloading because you lose and then try again without changing a thing. I changed a lot of things. I´m not surprised because i lost, i´m surprised because i played poorly at Bernabeu (with a completely different tactic) and got smashed and then played amazing at home, like i was a completely different team to the one that lost in Madrid (with a completely different tactic) and managed to score EXACTLY the amount of goals i needed to draw (i was winning ¡5-0! to Real Madrid) and then i conceded a goal to finishing AGAIN losing on the away goals rule. There´s nothing wrong with the game, but there are some things with it that i don´t understand very well. I mean, i don´t think that´s normal at all, adopting a completely different procedure and getting the same result. It´s like it´s written somewhere that i have to lose on the goal aways rule. And sorry for my english, my native language is spanish.

 

[WJ]

It´s not a case of reloading because you lose and then try again without changing a thing. I changed a lot of things. I´m not surprised because i lost, i´m surprised because i played poorly at Bernabeu (with a completely different tactic) and got smashed and then played amazing at home, like i was a completely different team to the one that lost in Madrid (with a completely different tactic) and managed to score EXACTLY the amount of goals i needed to draw (i was winning ¡5-0! to Real Madrid) and then i conceded a goal to finishing AGAIN losing on the away goals rule. There´s nothing wrong with the game, but there are some things with it that i don´t understand very well. I mean, i don´t think that´s normal at all, adopting a completely different procedure and getting the same result. It´s like it´s written somewhere that i have to lose on the goal aways rule. And sorry for my english, my native language is spanish.

There is no such programming, even though it feels that way. You're focusing on the score only... why? Also, a sample size of 2 proves zilch, zero, nothing... nada.

You're also focusing only on your own team. "It's like I was a completely different team." Why? Don't forget about the other 11 players on the pitch. Madrid would have played differently in the 2 legs as well. They'd be much more confident at home.

I'm quite interested in the tactics used and the order of the goals scored in the 2nd leg.

 

[sergiolagartija]

There is no such programming, even though it feels that way. You're focusing on the score only... why? Also, a sample size of 2 proves zilch, zero, nothing... nada.

You're also focusing only on your own team. "It's like I was a completely different team." Why? Don't forget about the other 11 players on the pitch. Madrid would have played differently in the 2 legs as well. They'd be much more confident at home.

I'm quite interested in the tactics used and the order of the goals scored in the 2nd leg.

The first time i used Bankai and the second time i used Apex Predator 15.2. On the second leg with Predator i managed to score five goals (with a tactic still not learned. I thought i´d need to adapt my team to it) but Cristiano Ronaldo scored a header and, despite i switched from control to overload, i couldn´t bag a goal in 30 minutes and we ended 5-1. The problem is not losing the tie, but being able to score 5 goals against Real Madrid after a terrible first leg and with a new tactic. We were like a different team where everything worked and Real Madrid didn´t exist until they score the goal. I would LOVE to know what exactly happened to try to repeat it. If i can score 5 goals against Madrid i feel my team is able to win every match.

I think it worked this way: Madrid are a much better team so they´re winning the first leg easily. On the second leg they´re going to be complacent until they lose the lead, where they fix it but they still were poor. Complacent until they lose the lead means that if i´d have lost the first leg 8-0 i´d manage to score 9 goals against them on the second leg. And then the 3D translates it to the pitch. Am i wrong?

 

[WJ]

Am i wrong?

Yeah. It's not about complacency. It's all tactical.

You played the 1st leg against Madrid at the Bernabeu. They were at home, so would have been quite aggressive. You were battered. I've got my opinions on this, but anyway, you got smashed.

With Madrid 3 and 4 - 0 up and having to play away, they'd have been much more defensive/relaxed, because they have a comfortable lead. You scored many goals and for the first few, they wouldn't have changed too much, since they're still leading. When that last goal went in, they were now losing, so went back to being attacking - similar to the 1st leg. They get the goal (and the lead back) and go ultra defensive.

Go back and watch the games. This is most likely (and I'm quite sure about this) what happened.

It's obvious when you think about it. The AI changed depending on the match situation. You didn't.

 

[dave4787]

The first time i used Bankai and the second time i used Apex Predator 15.2. On the second leg with Predator i managed to score five goals (with a tactic still not learned. I thought i´d need to adapt my team to it) but Cristiano Ronaldo scored a header and, despite i switched from control to overload, i couldn´t bag a goal in 30 minutes and we ended 5-1. The problem is not losing the tie, but being able to score 5 goals against Real Madrid after a terrible first leg and with a new tactic. We were like a different team where everything worked and Real Madrid didn´t exist until they score the goal. I would LOVE to know what exactly happened to try to repeat it. If i can score 5 goals against Madrid i feel my team is able to win every match.

I think it worked this way: Madrid are a much better team so they´re winning the first leg easily. On the second leg they´re going to be complacent until they lose the lead, where they fix it but they still were poor. Complacent until they lose the lead means that if i´d have lost the first leg 8-0 i´d manage to score 9 goals against them on the second leg. And then the 3D translates it to the pitch. Am i wrong?

Not one bit. This happens WAY too often on this game, it's ridiculous. The biggest margin that I've seen is I lost 6-1 away but then won 5-0 at home, and 4 of my 5 goals were scored in the last 30 mins, with no change to tactics, no subs or no team talk!

I had to take off my FM tinted glasses after about a month of playing this game, I still plug away at it but it's way too predictable, and I just keep reminding myself that it's only a game. I, just like everyone else on this forum, am not a tactical genius, I'm not a 'football manager'; I'm sat at my desk playing a game. If everyone who bangs on about tactics was actually THAT good, they'd be professional football managers. But they aren't THAT good, that's why they have normal jobs like the rest of us.

So my advice is just keep plugging away. Yeah it's frustrating, yeah there are issues and yeah at times its massively unrealistic, but that kinda adds to the 'fun'

 

[WJ]

Not one bit. This happens WAY too often on this game, it's ridiculous. The biggest margin that I've seen is I lost 6-1 away but then won 5-0 at home, and 4 of my 5 goals were scored in the last 30 mins, with no change to tactics, no subs or no team talk!

Sorry, did I not just explain how these things work tactically?

YOU didn't make changes, but there happens to be another team on the pitch too.

 

[dave4787]

So the other team made changes that resulted, in that particular example, in just enough goals to be scored in order to send me through? So the changes that were made in the original post (the thread that I replied to) were sufficient to ensure the exact amount of goals were scored in order to send the team through? Now don't get me wrong, if I lost 3-0 then won 5-0 or vice versa then fair play, but to the exact goal? And not just on one occasion, on many. I've had it happen many times, whoever posted the first 'query' on this thread had the same issue and if you look at other topics it's raised there. To say that isn't an issue is extremely naive.

The fact is, like I said, is its a game. Games have issues, and this appears to be one of the issues in this years edition.

 

[WJ]

So the other team made changes that resulted, in that particular example, in just enough goals to be scored in order to send me through? So the changes that were made in the original post (the thread that I replied to) were sufficient to ensure the exact amount of goals were scored in order to send the team through? Now don't get me wrong, if I lost 3-0 then won 5-0 or vice versa then fair play, but to the exact goal? And not just on one occasion, on many. I've had it happen many times, whoever posted the first 'query' on this thread had the same issue and if you look at other topics it's raised there. To say that isn't an issue is extremely naive.

The fact is, like I said, is its a game. Games have issues, and this appears to be one of the issues in this years edition.

Talking about sergiolagartija's issue, then yes. I explained it! They were happy with the lead and were playing away, until he scored enough to potentially put him through. Real HAD to do something in order to not lose on aggregate. They did. Why would they risk still being open when they HAVE the goal that'll send them through? It would just be stupid. That's why they scored "to the exact goal".

You sound like you also download tactics. Amirite?

 

[sergiolagartija]

Talking about sergiolagartija's issue, then yes. I explained it! They were happy with the lead and were playing away, until he scored enough to potentially put him through. Real HAD to do something in order to not lose on aggregate. They did. Why would they risk still being open when they HAVE the goal that'll send them through? It would just be stupid. That's why they scored "to the exact goal".

You sound like you also download tactics. Amirite?

As a football fan (not a football manager) i don´t believe in Real Madrid happy losing 4-0 against Villarreal (not Barça neither Atlético) and don´t make a movement to avoid it until the 5th goal is scored so they have to score to win the tie. It simply can´t happen. There are a lot of examples in real football that show this. And i did change things when they score and have to score one more goal to win. I switched control to overload but i simply had no chance in 30 minutes. I understand your explanations but i still think there´s some engine in the game that i don´t get.

And the point of getting fluid the tactic? it was the first match playing with Predator's tactic and i score 5 goals against Real Madrid.

 

[WJ]

As a football fan (not a football manager) i don´t believe in Real Madrid happy losing 4-0 against Villarreal (not Barça neither Atlético) and don´t make a movement to avoid it until the 5th goal is scored so they have to score to win the tie. It simply can´t happen. There are a lot of examples in real football that show this. And i did change things when they score and have to score one more goal to win. I switched control to overload but i simply had no chance in 30 minutes. I understand your explanations but i still think there´s some engine in the game that i don´t get.

And the point of getting fluid the tactic? it was the first match playing with Predator's tactic and i score 5 goals against Real Madrid.

Okay, a few things...

The real life Real won't be happy, no. In FM, they'd still be winning overall, so it'd be okay. Go check the matches; see if I'm wrong.

You switched from Control to Overload? That's it? Mate, that isn't going to do ****. Your tactics were bad. It isn't set up to break down a team parking the bus. It relies on space, which there wouldn't have been once Madrid scored.

Watch the matches back if you don't believe me.

 

[dave4787]

Talking about sergiolagartija's issue, then yes. I explained it! They were happy with the lead and were playing away, until he scored enough to potentially put him through. Real HAD to do something in order to not lose on aggregate. They did. Why would they risk still being open when they HAVE the goal that'll send them through? It would just be stupid. That's why they scored "to the exact goal".

You sound like you also download tactics. Amirite?

I downloaded a tactic once for FM12, does that mean I fall into that category?

FM15, as I have with pretty much every FM or CM game I've tried to do my own thing, as its my game so I want to play it my way. Anyways, that's a different point.

Back to the initial issue, it is an issue. Please take your FM tinted glasses off and understand that there are issues with the game and this is one of them.

As has been mentioned, no team in the history of football has had a 4 goal lead, only to react in the second leg when 5-0 down. Especially a team of Real Madrid's standing. Although standing doesn't really come into it, the fact is at 2-0 in the second leg the team with the lead would think 'oh ****', and look to do something. This is an issue, pure and simple. There's no 'it's your tactics', ITS AN ISSUE! Now I could fully understand a different scenario, in the sense that they score first, make it 5-0 on aggregate then the other team try and fight back and not score enough goals, but in the scenario mentioned it's just wrong, especially when it's happening multiple times on multiple saves

 

[WJ]

I downloaded a tactic once for FM12, does that mean I fall into that category?

FM15, as I have with pretty much every FM or CM game I've tried to do my own thing, as its my game so I want to play it my way. Anyways, that's a different point.

Back to the initial issue, it is an issue. Please take your FM tinted glasses off and understand that there are issues with the game and this is one of them.

As has been mentioned, no team in the history of football has had a 4 goal lead, only to react in the second leg when 5-0 down. Especially a team of Real Madrid's standing. Although standing doesn't really come into it, the fact is at 2-0 in the second leg the team with the lead would think 'oh ****', and look to do something. This is an issue, pure and simple. There's no 'it's your tactics', ITS AN ISSUE! Now I could fully understand a different scenario, in the sense that they score first, make it 5-0 on aggregate then the other team try and fight back and not score enough goals, but in the scenario mentioned it's just wrong, especially when it's happening multiple times on multiple saves

If you read the post above yours, you'd see that I said that FM differs from real life here. It doesn't really matter too much. You should still be able to react to it if you pay attention in the match.

 

[wkdsoul]

Ac milan blew a 4-1 lead in 2004, lost 4-0 in the 2nd leg. Madrid came back from 5-1 first leg loss in 84 (i think, maybe 83)

 

[badmantrois]

2 defeats in 3 seasons mate, same tactic no edits

 

[sergiolagartija]

Okay, a few things...

The real life Real won't be happy, no. In FM, they'd still be winning overall, so it'd be okay. Go check the matches; see if I'm wrong.

You switched from Control to Overload? That's it? Mate, that isn't going to do ****. Your tactics were bad. It isn't set up to break down a team parking the bus. It relies on space, which there wouldn't have been once Madrid scored.

Watch the matches back if you don't believe me.

I never claimed i´m a good manager, i asume i´m not very good. That´s why i download tactics from other people. I once tried to build my own tactic but it took too long and i don´t have the time to do it, so i stick to other people's tactics and i enjoy the game as well. I understand i´m not playing FM full experience, but i simply can´t play that much. I supose it may be frustrating sometimes if you don´t understand the whole game. I have recover from losing by switching to overload in the last 30 minutes a lot of times despite you say "it does ****" so i asume with Real Madrid is harder to create chances when they become ultradefensive and i have to use some shouts or change some instructions which i don´t know how to do. I can accept it. I´d love you to tell me how a non-fluid-at-all tactic can smash Real Madrid when it is said that you cannot expect a tactic to perform 100% in the first matches (or even months), but i manage to beat 5-1 Real Madrid. Thanks for your time, mate.

 

[callamity]

I never claimed i´m a good manager, i asume i´m not very good. That´s why i download tactics from other people. I once tried to build my own tactic but it took too long and i don´t have the time to do it, so i stick to other people's tactics and i enjoy the game as well. I understand i´m not playing FM full experience, but i simply can´t play that much. I supose it may be frustrating sometimes if you don´t understand the whole game. I have recover from losing by switching to overload in the last 30 minutes a lot of times despite you say "it does ****" so i asume with Real Madrid is harder to create chances when they become ultradefensive and i have to use some shouts or change some instructions which i don´t know how to do. I can accept it. I´d love you to tell me how a non-fluid-at-all tactic can smash Real Madrid when it is said that you cannot expect a tactic to perform 100% in the first matches (or even months), but i manage to beat 5-1 Real Madrid. Thanks for your time, mate.

The problem with downloaded tactics is that 99% will be set up to exploit certain aspects of the match engine. Thus scoring an excessive amount of goals a season for example. If a team you play against has a tactic which is strong enough to mitigate the exploit whilst being balanced in attack as most ai tactics are you will get results like the scenario outlined.

I'm a fan of playing my way every game and not having to change. I set up my tactics without exploits in mind but to play a certain way. I never see results like this in over hundreds of tested hours plus real career games.

That being said any manager in the real world would never use an overload tactic away against real Madrid. Use logical tactics, think about games don't just download a tactic and feel entitled to not get humbled by real Madrid.

 

[sergiolagartija]

The problem with downloaded tactics is that 99% will be set up to exploit certain aspects of the match engine. Thus scoring an excessive amount of goals a season for example. If a team you play against has a tactic which is strong enough to mitigate the exploit whilst being balanced in attack as most ai tactics are you will get results like the scenario outlined.

I'm a fan of playing my way every game and not having to change. I set up my tactics without exploits in mind but to play a certain way. I never see results like this in over hundreds of tested hours plus real career games.

That being said any manager in the real world would never use an overload tactic away against real Madrid. Use logical tactics, think about games don't just download a tactic and feel entitled to not get humbled by real Madrid.

Yay, i wonder if you can recommend me some guides to learn to build my own tactic. It´d be really helpful because i do love this game. Anyway, i won 5-1 to Real Madrid using a control tactic, not overload. I used overload in the last 30 minutes when i needed to score. Thanks for helping.

 

[callamity]

Yay, i wonder if you can recommend me some guides to learn to build my own tactic. It´d be really helpful because i do love this game. Anyway, i won 5-1 to Real Madrid using a control tactic, not overload. I used overload in the last 30 minutes when i needed to score. Thanks for helping.

For guides on how to create tactics head on over to the tactics and training section at community.sigames.com There are threads there which can help you learn how to create a balanced tactic, how to analyse what you see in games and how your changes can affect your game.

 

[Death Ball]

Seeing how it looked a low of posts on the same matter, it seems one detail may have not been pointed in the Supercup thing: playing Real Madrid at Bernabéu is unlikely to be like any other, on being away it adds probably some sort of pressure from the public on top of being the cup, while playing at home sets the players in a more comfortable environment.

Apologies if I missed it already mentioned.