Frankenstein Tactic 3-2-3-2

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bwomper said:
No problem man, I will keep try it,I really see awesome football with this tactic.
Click to expand...

If you believe in it - and see great results - please show it - it will be a good learning experience for me and also my test team might be to corrupted with shooting from range ppms
 
jesaustralia said:
If you believe in it - and see great results - please show it - it will be a good learning experience for me and also my test team might be to corrupted with shooting from range ppms
Click to expand...

Well,great results are winning lol But what I really see is beautiful one touch plays and awesome goals...yeah the long range shoots problems still there...but well at least I make another tactic :) ( the true is my post of the tactics was more espectacular than the tactic at this moment,but I feel it can bloom )

In other order of things the 4141 tactics looks so fine. You are right this formation is one of the best (if not the best) for almost all kind of teams,and 4141 is good as a real life tactic too.

But im still dream about a mega tactic who will destroy BBM,Frankie,Tripletweakeds tactics and all... Fm13 is not dead,now the preassure option is another factor to think when you make a tactic, ...with that preassure maybe a non striker tactic can shine like the best ones...

Thanks for all the work here and for try tactics ;)
 
i have completed bayern season based on jes 352 tactic , great tactic overall, winning all trophies except champions league. POssesion above 50% versus top teams and above 60% versus lower teams. A lot of shots on target. Really enjoy it when the attack clicks.

Some minor issues noticed:
-the main area that (the fulcrum) of team seem to be the defense, if you have excellent defensive players, the attack function very well
-ball interceptions are very crucial in the midfield area. If they manage to drive the ball into our area, more often than not, we are outnumbered 3 vs >3

below are the snaps of my season , including fixture results in the 2nd half because that's where things start to go not-so-well:

View attachment 163423

View attachment 163422

nice tactic, jes !!
 
vitomycin said:
i have completed bayern season based on jes 352 tactic , great tactic overall, winning all trophies except champions league. POssesion above 50% versus top teams and above 60% versus lower teams. A lot of shots on target. Really enjoy it when the attack clicks.

Some minor issues noticed:
-the main area that (the fulcrum) of team seem to be the defense, if you have excellent defensive players, the attack function very well
-ball interceptions are very crucial in the midfield area. If they manage to drive the ball into our area, more often than not, we are outnumbered 3 vs >3

below are the snaps of my season , including fixture results in the 2nd half because that's where things start to go not-so-well:

View attachment 1038755

View attachment 1038756

nice tactic, jes !!
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My team must be alot better than your bayern team because I see none of what you say - also my team is on its way to 200 goals rather than less - so regent tactic for sure. If you want an extreme defensive tactic watch below.


NO_CREAT_Frankie_goes_underpreassure_in_a_F15

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I think this version is a beast defensively very likely the best beast ever created defensively for fm13 - in the first 19 matches they conceeded 1 goal and as you can see overall a fantastic defensive display - offense score the same as the other version where their is some CF to the players, but in my opinion this is the best one - I often saw possession in the high 70's - Cr7 Exploded with 71 goals - He got injured for 5-6months in the other test so very unfair to compare that - though Diego Costa should be about the same and he wasn't. Their is alot of balance in this formation - I think alot of things can be learned from the settings for other tactics - a definite framework that can compete with the langvatn framework defensively. the only negative is 66% of chances in most matches are off target - again that can be because my players have shoot from distance and shot with power ppms.

Cheers

ps an idea is to look at the new 4141 offensively and keep the defensive settings
 
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bwomper said:
Time to explain a little the silly post before lol.

Here is the team tactic. With the Frankie template but with the addition of the preassure and the defensive line top right. (Settings from Jess tactic Underpreassure)

OI is similar like frankenstein tactic,and despite the formation,the only rol I changed is the DM,now look more like anchormen but you want box to box type players here.They go to the rival box but not so often than the normal frankie settings for this possition.


What I looking for with this formation and (not too tweaked ,I know) settings : Constant help at the midfield zone (In offence and defence). Does it means is a pure possesion tactic? Nope. Sometimes,depends of the rival, this midfield zone help can give you possesion,others can give you quick steals and probally counter. (At least I see that in some testing games,but I need a entire season with this to see something clear).

What I try and I star see it:

Almost how I want the 2 DM play. In defence stay back, also they become a part of the defensive line sometimes. Less ofensives so is better for two things: Recycle possesion and give more field to the AMCs,Wingers and Striker.

Wingers are now ML/MD : more balenced,at least for possition in the field, with the high preassure work so fine at defence and in ofence can or cut inside for play more in the middle and make numeric superiority at the central zone,or go to the by-line and pass to the box.

Double AMC,doble menace. I try the same settings like the frankenstein AMC (a key player in that tactic ) but without creative freedom in a try of see if they shoot less from long distance. These two can drive the ball from own pitch to the area and lookingo for a shoot like surprise strikers or combine in one-twos passes with the DMs and wingers and make a spot clean of defenders for the long striker. I see their performance is better than in frankenstein tactics,at least in ofence. More space for them to play thanks to the new settings for the DM and the lone striker.

I have to try more like I said,but I will add the tactics here: One is with full creative fredoom for the AMC and the other is 0 CF.

It just another tactic to try and get fun (if it works of course lol)

I start a new season now,so I will post how it goes...feel free to try it too if you want. Cheers people ;)
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good tactic, bwomper !

trying this tactic in my bayern season 2, still early season though. The defensive side of this tactic is very good, usually forcing opponents to shoot from far. For attack, the goals are there, strikers score maybe 60% of them, rest from other players, but sometimes the attack area gets crowded, lol.

One example i saw in a match 2D, the AMC was running with ball into area near striker (striker didn't move further forward) and somehow lost the ball to the opponent defender, not sure whether AMC and ST collision occured, but i was laughing when i saw that. It doesn't happen very often though
 
jesaustralia said:
My team must be alot better than your bayern team because I see none of what you say - also my team is on its way to 200 goals rather than less - so regent tactic for sure. If you want an extreme defensive tactic watch below.


NO_CREAT_Frankie_goes_underpreassure_in_a_F15

View attachment 1038802

View attachment 1038803

View attachment 1038804


I think this version is a beast defensively very likely the best beast ever created defensively for fm13 - in the first 19 matches they conceeded 1 goal and as you can see overall a fantastic defensive display - offense score the same as the other version where their is some CF to the players, but in my opinion this is the best one - I often saw possession in the high 70's - Cr7 Exploded with 71 goals - He got injured for 5-6months in the other test so very unfair to compare that - though Diego Costa should be about the same and he wasn't. Their is alot of balance in this formation - I think alot of things can be learned from the settings for other tactics - a definite framework that can compete with the langvatn framework defensively. the only negative is 66% of chances in most matches are off target - again that can be because my players have shoot from distance and shot with power ppms.

Cheers

ps an idea is to look at the new 4141 offensively and keep the defensive settings
Click to expand...
The problem of that is...how to implement the offensive setting without break the defensive feelings. Too much to tweak....too many ideas....argggghhh lol
 
Looked through a few of my saves over the last few days and found I had one with Espanyol that is about 10 years previous to the save I posted about last week. So am doing a season with the No Creat Frankie version of under pressure by Bwomper, needs a shorter name though lol

Will post up something tomorrow as I should be around Jan, half way point in season. Looking good so far, and striker is my Argentina superstar that scored 66 goals in a season, I would expect him to beat that total, if he stays injury free.
 
At the end of Jan, so around half way through season and is going very well. My striker will break my record and should if he stays injury free I believe at least 80 goals this season. A few screenshots to show how it is going.

Table

View attachment 161149

Overview

View attachment 161148

Moyano Stats at half way point

View attachment 161146

Will try and get full season finished tomorrow and post up how it went to the end of the season.
 
Ossis Mandos said:
At the end of Jan, so around half way through season and is going very well. My striker will break my record and should if he stays injury free I believe at least 80 goals this season. A few screenshots to show how it is going.

Table

View attachment 1041328

Overview

View attachment 1041329

Moyano Stats at half way point

View attachment 1041331

Will try and get full season finished tomorrow and post up how it went to the end of the season.
Click to expand...

Your striker look very simular to my Zaragoza striker who also comes from Argentina - I'm still using the 352 under pressure and have breath taking success with them.

Full season with my Zaragoza team and alot of double digits through the season - alot of success stories from my players individually - I haven't used fmrte for a long time, but some of the players are affected by small edits here and their, but happened long ago - when I was doing this save - I can't exactly pinppoint where I have been editing but I know I have been playing around with stuff - one thing I like to play around with is ppm's because I think they have tremendous value to a players way of performing combined with skill ofcause.

League table

View attachment 161136

Overview 6 gls a game

View attachment 161135

Players performances - 7 worldclass players and actually potentially 2 more both strikers that I don't use alot, but they get a chance as a winger or striker - Chuck and Malthe. Mendez is my Messi superstar who is Messi but with tremendous strenght - some of his ppms are very simular to Messi - one of them is coming deep for the ball - that's interesting because my other striker the 92 goalscoring striker Sponton has Make forward runs whenever possible. PPm's overrides player instructions so in reality the tactic would look and act differently for other people trying them with other players than mine. Its quite interesting to look at it this way because that makes the tactic part even more cryptic :)

View attachment 161134

Sponton 92 goals - below this image I will make a list of his PPM's

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Sponton's ppms - believe it or not I wrote it down in a paper book :)

Run with ball through centre
Move into channels
Gets forward whenever possible
Killer balls
Shot with power
Round keeper
Knock ball past opponnent
Run with ball often

For me the most obvious ppm's for this player is - Bolded.

Hope you find this useful and maybe even helpful as you should be able to use this for tactics.

Cheers
 
Under_Pressure_352_-_Zaragoza_PPM_optimized

So I went a little further with my theory - ppm's overrides player instructions - I changed very few instructions, but maybe these instructions can pinpoint my Zaragoza team better when it comes to performances through ppm's.

Sponton I already showed you above - Here's Mendoza my Messi - I think I did edit him a tiny bit don't remember, but he looks it a little I think - ppm's - Killer ball - place shots - come deep - dictate tempo - RWB often -

SCR - world class striker

View attachment 161127

Bobbins - not edited - ppm's shot with power -

ML - world class striker

View attachment 161125

Kovac - not edited - ppm's RWB through centre - move into channels - killer ball - shot with power - one two's - RWB often

CML - world class midfielder

View attachment 161123

Marciano - not edited - ppm's place shots - long range passes

Deep laying playmaker/CM - world class midfielder

View attachment 161122

Mike Sorensen - maybe edited - ppm's RWB through centre - move into channels - killer balls - shot with power - one two's - RWB often - avoid weak foot

CMR - world class

View attachment 161121

SEIX - position Edited - attribute edited - ppm's knock ball past opponent - RWB often - curl ball - long bullet throw - Corner and throwin taker

MR - not world class - has a backup MR same type who is also edited - Bobbins types like above or Neymar types should be preferred.

View attachment 161120

Nilsson - not edited - ppm's none - I recommend - tight marking - doesn't dive into tackles

CDL

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Castellazzi - Most edited player in the save - ppm's killer ball - curls ball - mark tight - dictate tempo - look for pass rather than shooting - stay back always - dives into tackles - long passing - switch ball to the other side - I recommend to not have - dive into tackles - stay back always - and maybe add gets forward whenever possible

CD - world class

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Van Meulen - not edited - ppm's tight marking - does not dive into tackles - a beast executioner from corners

CDR - world class

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I wanted to show you this because I believe players become a certain type of beast when they have good ppm's that goes together hand in hand with the player attributes - Now I see all my matches otherwise I feel the game is boring - and from the players I have shown you here I see exactly what I wanna see - I have experiementing with ppm's the last couple of years and I have to say that it is my experience that ppm's can really destroy a good tactic - so for me its better to have ppm's that compliment a tactic than ppm's that goes against the tactical idea.


So for the 352 under pressure this would be the players I would pick in the start of the game

GK Courtois
DCL Mangala/Zouma/Smalling/S.Strandberg/F.Sorensen
DC David Luiz/Varane
DCR DEDE/Kara
CML James Rodriguez/Oscar/Wilshere/P.Pogba
CM/DLP Koke/Crisetig later beast/Stambouli/Khedira
CMR Yaya Toure/Ramsey/Sweinsteiger
ML Neymar/Bale/E.Hazard
MR Reus/E.Hazard/Muller/James Rodriguez
SCL CR7/Lukaku/Suarez/Benteke/Falcao/Maupay
SCR Messi/Maupay later beast/CR7/Muller/Mastour later beast

Ofcause depending on what you want from the players or what position you want them to play - they should have the ppm's accordingly like Maupay can play both types of striker, but depending on what side you want to use him is important according to his ppm's that you will train with him.

Another thing thats obvious is if an attacking player has alot of strenght and less composure and anticipation its a good idea to give him the shoot with power, but in some situations they do have good composure and anticipation as well as strenght - like Mendoza above - I gave him place shots like Messi - My top striker Sponton who scored 92 goals has decent composure and anticipation I gave shot with power and watching him in action is breath taking sometimes. I don't know if their is an uneven flaw in the match engine - whether shot with power works better when the players play on the left in the attack or vice versa with the place shots - for me its a judgement call - I like it when their is surprises like one striker shoot with power and one striker place shots, but its not always that I can line up with that.

This post is just to give you an idea on how I use ppm's with great success - whether you wanna use it or not is up to you - I will say though I do think it matters if you want that 92 goal scoring superstar - it makes the players concrete in what they are talented at. One thing I'm not 100% certain off is the come deep to get ball and the gets forward whenever possible in contrast - their is actually one contrast even further to these two that is gets into area ppm which is even more offensive than get forward whenever possible - the box striker. one thing is for certain though - gets forward whenever possible is a good trait to have for atleast one striker - I accept 92 goals from Sponton - he will not be sacked or released to not good enough performances. At last looking at the match engine it has been a great joy to watch these performances with these attributes shown above and the ppm's described.

Have a good weekend you all - I'm around - cheers

ps I don't know how much different the tactic above will work - compared to the first version which in reality is the 3rd version :)
 
End of March in the save and is going great, not conceded a goal at home yet in the league. My striker is doing better than I thought and has beaten Messi's La Liga goals record already.

View attachment 160809

Should have a full season up at some point tomorrow. 8 league games to play and CL S/F and hopefully Final, plus Spanish Cup Final.
 
Ossis Mandos said:
I finished the season and went very well. In league didn't conceded a goal at home and only let in 8 in league all season which is a record for me. My striker ended up scoring 106 goals which I find astonishing and is by a long way a record for me.

A couple of sereenshots.

Final League Table

View attachment 1041912

Overview

View attachment 1041913

Moyano season stats

View attachment 1041914
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Amazing!!! - 106 gls that I think is the highest I have seen - No creative Freedom tactic by bwomper is a beast - If the goal is to enjoy the game and get as many points as possible and having a great defensive record with lots of possession this is a superbeast. Do your striker have any ppm's?

I deleted alot of save andf started yet another Barca save - I want to have a complete fmrte free save for atleast the first 20 seasons - when I say the first 20 season I mean if I should add anything it would be money to different top clubs in the game - then nothing else. Even that though I don't know if I will do. I feel the finances are a bit slow in the game - not many transfers being made - to many loans. I'm gonna use the 352 under pressure - I signed koke and Machisio - and many others - Maupay ofcause - fierro - wilshere - Muller - Maybe Hazard - Maybe Courtois - Kara - Strandberg - Smalling - Papadoupoulos - others I don't remember - Shadrach 12k - I'm looking forward to see Papadoupoulos had him before - but didn't give him the chance, but he has great potential and he's pretty quick for a defender.

Anyway Ossis that looked great - cheers pal
 
Actually he does not have many PPM's. Runs with ball down right/left, moves into channels and plays 0ne-twos. So only a few which makes it a little more remarkable to the amount of goals he has scored this season. Then again he does have some very nice attributes.
 
Ossis Mandos said:
Actually he does not have many PPM's. Runs with ball down right/left, moves into channels and plays 0ne-twos. So only a few which makes it a little more remarkable to the amount of goals he has scored this season. Then again he does have some very nice attributes.
Click to expand...
Move into channels ppm is magic :)
 
jesaustralia said:
Amazing!!! - 106 gls that I think is the highest I have seen - No creative Freedom tactic by bwomper is a beast - If the goal is to enjoy the game and get as many points as possible and having a great defensive record with lots of possession this is a superbeast. Do your striker have any ppm's?
Click to expand...

agree with you and Ossis regarding bwomper's tactic.

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apologies in advance to bwomper, a little advertisement here, if it is not right, i can remove it.

i made what i believe is a 4231 that works as i wanted to see, opponents' flanks shutdown, central midfield roadblocks, wingers and AMC that feed strikers (rather than dribble or RWB all the way to penalty box and getting blocked), so majority of shots will be from striker. Credit to all of the FM13 4231 tactics references that i find over net.

there are some problems , one of it is its weakness to double striker formation, where the ai pump balls to strikers ( pass to head/feet, not to space).

Is it possible for the tactical gurus to help take a look at the problem or any other flaws with it? Thanks.

link: 4231 vitomycin - altered width setting

link: 4231 vitomycin original
- this is the original one intended to upload, with width at 19, as per general overload strategy.
- currently still in test in EPL, with chelsea season 2, team cohesion at die for each other, top away result, 5-0 roma, 4-1 monaco, 4-0 tottenham
- it seem to solve some of the problem i have in the past with flank lockdown, in the dying minutes, opponent goes hyperaggressive counter, with superb long ball to flank to cross to box for comeback goals
- open up oppnent's space when they change to defensive narrow = still have chance to score, instead of kicking ball to a brick wall when opponent park the bus
- the width change to 14 or use shout: play narrower , can be used
1) when opponent use/change formation that is central heavy or double strikers, such as 4312, 442, 41212
2) when opponent channel ball through middle alot, and the central defense seem to be unable to cope with it
3) posted for help here as the narrow shout doesn't completely solve it, only partially mitigate the problem against aforementioned opponent's strategies.

below is a snapshot of the formation:
View attachment 160538
 
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vitomycin said:
agree with you and Ossis regarding bwomper's tactic.

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apologies in advance to bwomper, a little advertisement here, if it is not right, i can remove it.

i made what i believe is a 4231 that works as i wanted to see, opponents' flanks shutdown, central midfield roadblocks, wingers and AMC that feed strikers (rather than dribble or RWB all the way to penalty box and getting blocked), so majority of shots will be from striker. Credit to all of the FM13 4231 tactics references that i find over net.

there are some problems , one of it is its weakness to double striker formation, where the ai pump balls to strikers ( pass to head/feet, not to space).

Is it possible for the tactical gurus to help take a look at the problem or any other flaws with it? Thanks.

link: 4231 vitomycin
first timer in uploading tactic, if it doesn't work, please tell. :P

below is a snapshot of the formation:
View attachment 1041998
Click to expand...

In all honesty I think its cool that you post your tactic - this is not my thread its bwomper's but long ago I decided to keep things simple and post here as a gesture to give back to the friendships I feel has been made over the past 2/3 years time online at fmbase. I remember a time where people were very generous interacting and posting in my threads - so I decided to give back. Its also good to keep things simple posting in one thread. So many times I have shared my own tactics or tactics with tweaks in bwomper's thread - I don't think he mind :) - I think this thread has become a very strong thread at fmbase with lots and lots of content to browse through - definitely worth a read - their has been ups and downs even dumb arguments - but the main thing is the people that really cares are still here.

Mediafire where I upload my tactics shows me their is still an interest in fm13 - so its not all dead - so for me I think its great you release a tactic in this thread.

About your problem with the tactic - I'm saying this without having a look at it - have you tried targetman supply run onto balls?
Run onto balls is passes into space - also to make that happen from deep - direct passing is needed - which leads to players should be creative have good decisions and good passing attributes along with natural technique and first touch I reckon.

Oh I misunderstood you I think - you meant the opponent are giving you problems - when playing 2 strikers to head or feet -
Defenders average speed acceleration and pace 13+ and great at jumping 17+ - mark tight - normal tackling as hard tackling is to risky - ppm's mark tight - does not dive into tackles

Now I see you have Dede and David Luiz both great defenders - they are more than capable for sure - so for me the problem probably lay within the formation - its vulnerable in your own half you don't have a dmc or anchorman to protect the area - to adjust that you could use 2 dmc anchors like bwompers latest tactic - I will take a look at it.

Cheers
 
You can try this Vito

4231_vitomycin_-_Jesau_tweak15

Tested your original version and made many versions of it some better some worse, but your version seems like a great version too. Biggest critisism is you need to have longshots on rare in all tactics, they don't work at all - yes you will see longshot goals once in a while - but that you will see to when having the sliders on rare - bottom line is to many wasted chances from longshots - the only thing they are good for is statistics - amount of shots in total per match - so rare longshots whatever tactic you use. Besides that I made alot of tweaks to your tactic, and I feel I made the wingers and the CAM very dangerous - but you should check it for yourself.

I noticed you play in England - many oppositions will be tough due to the different tactics/formations they use compared to the likes of Spain - so it will be harder to get amazing success naturally.

In England winning a match is success - in Spain winning a match with 6-0 is a success

The tactic can probably still be improved - I currently have a headache so I have to stop testing and tweaking - tell me how you go if you try it.

Cheers
 
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