Has Watching Matches Become Redundant?

I don't disagree, but an Engine that does thousands of micro-calculations wouldn't require more space to be installed? That's what's striking me as weird. That such a powerful machine takes up so little space in my hard drive.

Well, it's also the fact that I tend to question everything I see, and there are literally THOUSANDS of calculations in FM, which makes it easier to question it.

The reason fifa and Pro are much bigger could be the graphics though.
 
Like I say, not really techy enough, but Thousands of micro-calculations may not all need a different algorithm, might be one micro-calculation done a thousand times - one algorithm needed. HD space for one algorithm rather than thousands.

Really not sure if I am explaining my thoughts well - but it makes sense in my head.
 
I don't disagree, but an Engine that does thousands of micro-calculations wouldn't require more space to be installed? That's what's striking me as weird. That such a powerful machine takes up so little space in my hard drive.

Well, it's also the fact that I tend to question everything I see, and there are literally THOUSANDS of calculations in FM, which makes it easier to question it.

The reason fifa and Pro are much bigger could be the graphics though.
Yeah, the ME is massive. 2-3 million lines of code. I suspect that the lines of coding do not take up as much space as FIFA, which is a lot more graphics/physics based.
 
FIFA takes a lot more space because it has a lot of 3D models and stuff that takes a lot of disk space. FM has little about that: just one scalable model with colourable (?) pieces and a handful of stadium models. FIFA is detailed faces for all the famous players with their recognizable noses and eyes and teeth and what not. That's huge and that's what adds the size difference. It's not just that FIFA has to create a huge number of different models for the players, but each model, each head, has a number of vertices several orders of magnitude higher than FM's models. FIFA's match engine is not going to be bigger than FM's, I would even expect the ME of FIFA files to be even smaller than FM's if I didn't distrust EA's programmers to keep clean code (from F1 games experiences made me suspect but that'd be a huge off topic that's not really relevant and nothing more than a feeling). In the end the ME is a more or less big bunch of functions with a bunch of variables (players atributes, hidden attributes, geometric data of picth positions).
And then there's a lot of code to handle the models with that many more vertices and controls and lightning and effects and stuff.
 
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I understand everything you said, and they seem valid enough. However, can this be proven?

In all my years in FM, I have seen players suddenly losing it and act like they came out of a mental clinic (e.g. a defender runs for the ball and for some reason he stops even though he had a head start, and let's the attacker take the ball!). By this standard, match results could be totally predefined or randomized, and maybe we just want to believe that the engine is calculating every variable. But, again, can any of the two theories be proven?

I don't want to throw dirt or anything, I love the game. But this question eats my mind from FM 12.
 
I understand everything you said, and they seem valid enough. However, can this be proven?

In all my years in FM, I have seen players suddenly losing it and act like they came out of a mental clinic (e.g. a defender runs for the ball and for some reason he stops even though he had a head start, and let's the attacker take the ball!). By this standard, match results could be totally predefined or randomized, and maybe we just want to believe that the engine is calculating every variable. But, again, can any of the two theories be proven?

I don't want to throw dirt or anything, I love the game. But this question eats my mind from FM 12.
Head over to the SI forum, there are many there with the knowledge and inside inf to help with that question.
 
I understand everything you said, and they seem valid enough. However, can this be proven?

In all my years in FM, I have seen players suddenly losing it and act like they came out of a mental clinic (e.g. a defender runs for the ball and for some reason he stops even though he had a head start, and let's the attacker take the ball!). By this standard, match results could be totally predefined or randomized, and maybe we just want to believe that the engine is calculating every variable. But, again, can any of the two theories be proven?

I don't want to throw dirt or anything, I love the game. But this question eats my mind from FM 12.
Just posts from mods who know the game. There may be a similar post from SI somewhere too. That's as much as you'll get. You won't get to see the ME code.

It's definitely not random or pre-destined though.
 
You made the "random game of football" comment, not me. I was saying it isn't random. You're seeing what was calculated. With that in mind, watching matches is certainly not redundant

If the Argument is that the engine Shows some arbitrarily sequence to Show that a Goal has/hasnÄt been scored, it's ridiculous. That's not what's Happening either way. Other the better exploiters outside of purely Trial&errorers wouldn't be able to systematically exploit actual weakness. Like the wide midfielders on FM17 sitting out this wide that they barely ever helped defending on any cycle of Possession, the open flanks on FM 16, etc. For some reason people tend to struggle with the simplest of stuff though. Which is, for instance, what happens upon interceptions. Considering that the ball is being dropped dozens times a match in minutes, also what it means to push added Players Forwards vs keepingn them back in numbers. It's like a Card house effect, as every time a Player is caught out of Position, another Player has to step up to fill in the gaps, which happens on every turnover, etc.

I'd be happy if the game one day were to have a truly assistant System. With that, the garbage that having more shots and Possession would be a sign of a "working tactic" would also go. The game Needs Players to think About how to increase the chance of scoring, decreasing it, balancing both -- and given that you cannot field 33 outfield Players covering every inch of the pitch at any time, how to balance it all according to different scenarios, etc. I'd also get rid of the stuff that you can enter into the UI which you barely ever see on a Football pitch, and which the AI sometimes engages in also (leading to added point drops). That way the devs could focus on the actual issues. The game is simulating semi/professional management, after all, not some School class in team Sports Basics or anything (which the game has Always assumed you did take Prior to launching it). It may also shift the tactical side of the game away from (for some) perceived random microtweaking, and to actual "Football decisions". Naturally, there also Needs to be a balance between Player skill and tactics. Wasn't particularly realistic, but on FM15 it helped the AI also that you could put 10 Players behind the ball and hoof it upfield to Messi -- he would still frequently dribble past defenses and could Keep Barcelona somewhat afloat. :D The top Dribblers averaged an insane amount of dribbles per match on 15 in General.

Speaking About the Trial/erroers and entering stuff into the UI that you would never see on a Football pitch (certainly not for prolonged minutes of a Season): I have just seen that one of knap's "magic wonders" is once again reporting back with as much as 50 shots, barely a goal on the occasion. :D Pushing every single Player up as usual, compressing the space visibly to the size of a tunafish can, where Players are easily engaged/tackled/fouled/pushed. Similar to how dumb AI oft sometimes do it, except even more extremely.

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I can't give enough likes favs ovations to that line.

I think it's fairly maddening that there are numerous, even Long-term players who have never grasped that some of their Opposition approaches aren't even geards towards having more shots come the final whistle blown. Meanwhile, the only Football media who puts much value into any such data tends to be Mainstream Football programs -- however they may have their reasons. Unlike an FM Player say, Football Viewers may prefer what's easy to grasp / what's interesting over what may be really some illmunating of what was actually going on. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/24/football-numbers-game-gary-neville

Purely stats wise, I personally hope the game would introduce xG models in such a way. Considering that AI manage Matches dynamically and react to scorelines (can only really attack for ten minutes sometimes), preferably with a time line attached to it all. Teams that are chasing leads tend to actually push for another Goal at least until they have it (and have another couple shots), and vice versa. Similar, if you would always concede the first goal, it may be more than just "bad luck". https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/1010614973578600454?lang=de The only fear I have is that it still may be well understood. Whilst having umpteenth more shots isn't dominating an Opposition in Football at all -- https://twitter.com/caley_graphics/status/965710626722123786? -- results against an actual run of Play, that is one side really being all over the other are fairly legion https://twitter.com/Caley_graphics/status/1073998576324435970. As modern day Analysis suggests, even the better chances in Football tend to be roughly 50/50 Affairs at best -- and unlike a thousandn tired pundit cliche's (guy can't hit a barns door / always scores) a Forwards finishing ability on a Level doesn't make a comically huge difference.

That's it on the stats front. In General, I don't see ANYONE hugely enjoying the tactical side of the game if they don't ask themselves basic Questions such as: How do different teams hold onto a lead? How do different teams park the bus and what do they watch out for? How do teams Approach matches in which the Clock is running out and they are desperate to score a Goal? How do counter attacking sides work, surely not via shots and possession? The AI has had simply means of answering each of those for a very long time running. The UI should encourage to think into such also. In tendency, it's still a fairly Micro tweaking puzzle -- which also still allows fairly nonsensical, or at least risky, combinations, mainly, but not exclusively through the roles and duties governing movement in possession (yo everybody go forward etc)…
 
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