How team options fit in with each other and common errors in design

  • Thread starter Thread starter Igneos79
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lothrail said:
It's impossible in FM for as long as we can't have separate tactics for the attacking and defensive phase to be honest.
In theory it should be very fluid as they expect every player to contribute to every phase, the entire team attacks and the entire team defends, combine this with pressing in FM though and you have a mess in your hands, not a formation... We need to be able to give them high amount of creative freedom in the attack, but make them very disciplined in defense, that's basically the idea in the system. They are Messis and Iniestas in the attack but Kuyts and Milners in defence
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Indeed, it's virtually impossible. I much prefer playing the new FM because of all the interface updates and whatever, but FM13 made it a lot easier to give that creative freedom in attack to players. I've tried countless times in this FM to get that high possession, high pressing and intense setup but I think it's a challenge I'll never complete! :P
 
germainelol said:
I watched the entire game with stand off ticked, the result was less possession for all 3 games because as soon as one of their players gets the ball, your players don't even bother to close them down. Funnily enough they stand off from their players because that's just what you're asking them to do, NOT close them down. The definition of stand off is to close down LESS in order to hold your shape and stop conceding shots.
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Well in my game they close down normally, just don't hassle...
 
germainelol said:
If you post a tactic with these shouts implemented that you think is tika-taka I am more than happy to take a look and test it out, but from my experience I don't think this is how they play.
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ok. Just make sure you are at least 80% fluid before going competetive with it.
 
Igneos79 said:
ok. Just make sure you are at least 80% fluid before going competetive with it.
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And how much possession do you actually get with this? I get the exact same result with this as I do with my own tactics.....great going forward attacking, but as soon as the team lose the ball there's virtually no pressure put on the opponents, they have endless amounts of time on the ball to do whatever they want.
 
In terms of football manager I understand and agree with a lot of things igneos79 says however in the real game I agree with the others.
 
germainelol said:
And how much possession do you actually get with this? I get the exact same result with this as I do with my own tactics.....great going forward attacking, but as soon as the team lose the ball there's virtually no pressure put on the opponents, they have endless amounts of time on the ball to do whatever they want.
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I usually have around 60%, against similar opponents. Against stronger opposition or those who play possession, of course less. And I have no idea why are you all so stressed about pressing? Ball can perhaps be won by intercepting it even in greater amount then with hassling. If you want to hassle, you don't want tiki taka. Hassling goes with a high tempo game, not with a low tempo and retaining possession, that was my only point. Guardiola did hassle, but that wasn't tiki taka. He probably played wide and direct.
 
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germainelol said:
That makes zero sense. They are saying that stand off is good for a team like chelsea who thrive on counter attacks....
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I wrote about counter attacks too, and yes, they can be done with standing off. It's in the lower section of this guide. As I wrote earlier, more agressive strategies = more pressing, less agressive strategies = less pressing.
 
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Igneos79 said:
I wrote about counter attacks too, and yes, they can be done with standing off. It's in the lower section of this guide. As I wrote earlier, more agressive strategies = more pressing, less agressive strategies = less pressing.
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Define aggressive because Pep's Barcelona were very aggressive with regards to pressing. You only have to youtube "barcelona 6 seconds" to see that.
 
germainelol said:
Define aggressive because Pep's Barcelona were very aggressive with regards to pressing. You only have to youtube "barcelona 6 seconds" to see that.
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Here, I edited my first post. Perhaps it is more clear now.
 
Igneos79 said:
Here, I edited my first post. Perhaps it is more clear now.
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You still have no proper reasons for advising the instructions that you do.


On less attacking strategies, why can't I leave it with the default pressing? Why can I only use stand-off?

Players staying in position has nothing to do with defensive duties, it just makes them roam less in possession.

Possibly luck, but you guessed right that drill crosses favours shorter strikers who are good off the ball.

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Why should I choose Push Up, Higher Tempo and Play Wider on more attacking strategies? The D-Line is already higher, Tempo higher and I'll already play wide just by having a more attacking strategy! I can leave it at default. Why can't I lower it?

Why must I play More Direct? In more attacking strategies, the defence has shorter passing by default to keep possession better, while the front players are more direct to be more attacking. Since they're already direct, what's the reasoning for needing them to be more direct?

Why do I need to Hassle Opponents on higher mentalities when Closing Down is already increased? Hassle Opponents makes you lose shape very quickly if you're not set up absolutely correct, because it maxes out closing down.
 
WJ said:
You still have no proper reasons for advising the instructions that you do.


On less attacking strategies, why can't I leave it with the default pressing? Why can I only use stand-off?

Players staying in position has nothing to do with defensive duties, it just makes them roam less in possession.

Possibly luck, but you guessed right that drill crosses favours shorter strikers who are good off the ball.

----

Why should I choose Push Up, Higher Tempo and Play Wider on more attacking strategies? The D-Line is already higher, Tempo higher and I'll already play wide just by having a more attacking strategy! I can leave it at default. Why can't I lower it?

Why must I play More Direct? In more attacking strategies, the defence has shorter passing by default to keep possession better, while the front players are more direct to be more attacking. Since they're already direct, what's the reasoning for needing them to be more direct?

Why do I need to Hassle Opponents on higher mentalities when Closing Down is already increased? Hassle Opponents makes you lose shape very quickly if you're not set up absolutely correct, because it maxes out closing down.
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Like I said, you don't want conflicting orders. You are correct you can leave everything default, but you really shouldn't be standing off with attacking strategy, or playing low tempo with it, for example. "It is against it's nature"

What gave you the idea drill crosses suggestion was luck? Your idea of insult?

Seriously, there are to many "experts" here, I don't know if I should be full of joy about it, or go to toilet....
 
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Igneos79 said:
Like I said, you don't want conflicting orders. You are correct you can leave everything default, but you really shouldn't be standing off with attacking strategy, or playing low tempo with it, for example. "It is against it's nature"
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Why can't I play at a lower than default tempo then? Why is it conflicting to ask my players to be attacking but take slightly longer than "normal" for that mentality in weighing up their options before doing anything?
 
WJ said:
Why can't I play at a lower than default tempo then? Why is it conflicting to ask my players to be attacking but take slightly longer than "normal" for that mentality in weighing up their options before doing anything?
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Because attacking is all about high tempo and asking your players to play faster to catch opposition by surprise. You can lower it, but it wont work well.
 
Igneos79 said:
Because attacking is all about high tempo and asking your players to play faster to catch opposition by surprise. You can lower it, but it wont work well.
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Ah, but the key word is LOWER. It's just a lower tempo than default, not low overall.
 
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