If Australia beat Holland today then I'll believe that this years FM COULD be real

[dave256]

Let's see if Holland can thrash Spain and then lose to Australia, as similar things have so often happened in this years game

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

Uruguay 1 - 3 Costa Rica
Spain 1 - 5 Netherlands
Russia 1 - 1 South Korea
Brazil 0 - 0 Mexico

I think the World Cup has thrown up enough results to show FM isn't as bad as they make it out to be.

 

[WJ]

I think the World Cup has thrown up enough results to show FM isn't as bad as they make it out to be.

Exactly. Odd results happen from time to time. If it happens to you a lot, you need to improve as a manager.

 

[dave256]

This is true, has been a very entertaining world cup. My post was more meant in a flippant tone. It's not the results I'm denying but the way the ME manipulates them to happen. I have my team talks down to a tee, morale through the roof and generally go 2 goals up in a game....THEN the other team plays like a bunch of superstars and my team seem to forget how to play. Strikers play like mimes trapped in an invisible box, WB's/FB's have the positional sense of a female driver and my once free flowing passing team quite gladly gift the ball to the opposition each time. Of course you get the odd surprising result, but its the way the ME seems to be pre-programmed to act at certain key points.

 

[Allisinho]

I know what you mean, but I think it could be a complacency sort of thing in the Match Engine no matter what the response to team talks are, I've quite often gone 2 or 3 up in a game and ended up losing 3-2 or 4-3 at full time after throwing games away with silly mistakes at set pieces and comically poor positioning

 

[WJ]

This is true, has been a very entertaining world cup. My post was more meant in a flippant tone. It's not the results I'm denying but the way the ME manipulates them to happen. I have my team talks down to a tee, morale through the roof and generally go 2 goals up in a game....THEN the other team plays like a bunch of superstars and my team seem to forget how to play. Strikers play like mimes trapped in an invisible box, WB's/FB's have the positional sense of a female driver and my once free flowing passing team quite gladly gift the ball to the opposition each time. Of course you get the odd surprising result, but its the way the ME seems to be pre-programmed to act at certain key points.

Or, their team goes 2 goals down and in an effort to get back into the game, they throw more players forward and close down more. It looks like your tactic and players can't cope with that.

I am also highly sceptical of anyone who says they have team talks down to a tee and mentioning morale being through the roof. Anyway, confidence levels and motivation are more important than morale when it comes to winning matches.

 

[dave256]

Or, their team goes 2 goals down and in an effort to get back into the game, they throw more players forward and close down more. It looks like your tactic and players can't cope with that.

I am also highly sceptical of anyone who says they have team talks down to a tee and mentioning morale being through the roof. Anyway, confidence levels and motivation are more important than morale when it comes to winning matches.

Yes, I can appreciate your logic and how that might explain a team getting the odd goal back but it's basically a pattern that happens fairly often, and surely you'd appreciate that when most teams go **** for leather in a real game they usually get punished? I mean, you haven't experienced anything like this yourself? Also, yes, i generally have my team talks very much sorted now and get possitive reactions from the whole team, after using the individual talk to follow up on my general one. Team talks aren't all that tricky. Understand that I'm not saying this is an occurence for every game, but the times I seem to suffer are generally from something that seems very out of place from the whole pattern of the game

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

This is true, has been a very entertaining world cup. My post was more meant in a flippant tone. It's not the results I'm denying but the way the ME manipulates them to happen. I have my team talks down to a tee, morale through the roof and generally go 2 goals up in a game....THEN the other team plays like a bunch of superstars and my team seem to forget how to play. Strikers play like mimes trapped in an invisible box, WB's/FB's have the positional sense of a female driver and my once free flowing passing team quite gladly gift the ball to the opposition each time. Of course you get the odd surprising result, but its the way the ME seems to be pre-programmed to act at certain key points.

Have you though about the opposition manager got their team talk down to a tee too and they just played better. When the opposition is playing better, your team suffers; that's just how football works. What about determination, bravery and aggression stats? Do they have the mentality to protect and fight for the result. Think about the opposition as well since your players are only half of everyone on the field.


Also, the ME is not pre-progrmamed. In the heat of frustration it may seem that way but It is not. It's a gigantic probability engine and every result is unique.

 

[dave256]

Have you though about the opposition manager got their team talk down to a tee too and they just played better. When the opposition is playing better, your team suffers; that's just how football works. What about determination, bravery and aggression stats? Do they have the mentality to protect and fight for the result. Think about the opposition as well since your players are only half of everyone on the field.


Also, the ME is not pre-progrmamed. In the heat of frustration it may seem that way but It is not. It's a gigantic probability engine and every result is unique.

So I'm intrigued. Would you 2 enlighten me what formations/tactics/approaches you've been using and to what success? I'm not asking for some miracle tactic from you but just your input. The both of you do come up with very reasonable arguments, and although i might not completely agree haha i do appreciate your view points and knowledge. Is there anything you've found to be effective in certain situations? formations that best counter other formations? Would be good to hear what you do

 

[kuliet]

Looking like FM14 is real then lol

 

[dave256]

haha not quite yet, but this is one **** of a game!!! It's actually been a really entertaining world cup so far

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

So I'm intrigued. Would you 2 enlighten me what formations/tactics/approaches you've been using and to what success? I'm not asking for some miracle tactic from you but just your input. The both of you do come up with very reasonable arguments, and although i might not completely agree haha i do appreciate your view points and knowledge. Is there anything you've found to be effective in certain situations? formations that best counter other formations? Would be good to hear what you do

The main problem is believing that the formation/tactic is responsible for the win.

It's not. The players are the ones who are important. you need ot identify your best XI. This dose not mean picking the best XI players in the squad. This means finding the best XI who work well together, who can cover each other weaknesses and who'd PPM's combine well with each other.

I base my tactics on a "shape" of how I want to play but I adjust about 100 time per match to suit the opposition. Never think that a tactic is an instant win, it's just a shape, a method, a style. It's instructions for how your team should play but if you ignore the opposition, the tactic will fail!


There are countless threads on here that you can find. I can't link them to you since most of what I've learned has come from reading about FM the past 5 years.

 

[dave256]

I think I just miss the sliders and the feel of the control over my dots. If I had the time then I'd play around with every role changing the instructions to see what changes they made, but I don't. The sliders at least gave you that almost tactile approach to tailor your playing style...this edition misses that for me and takes away the sense of it feeling like my tactic

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

I think I just miss the sliders and the feel of the control over my dots. If I had the time then I'd play around with every role changing the instructions to see what changes they made, but I don't. The sliders at least gave you that almost tactile approach to tailor your playing style...this edition misses that for me and takes away the sense of it feeling like my tactic

Because of the changes to the ME, the sliders would still give you the same results. SI are moving FM in the direction they're always wanted it to go. As a football Management simulation. It's a game in the same way real world football is a game: it's not meant to be easy and even the best need to work hard to win games.

If you want plug-and-play tactics to go 100 game unbeaten, try some of the earlier FMs (I don't men that condescendingly). Whenever FM14 brings me close to tears, I'll fire up my FM10 Liverpool save where I've gone 3 years without loosing a game. The older games were not as competitive or hard so they are a nice holiday. But FM is going in the direction of simulation.

Simulations are not for everyone. It's not about fun, it's about recreating the realism of the topic.
Simulations are the kind of games you only buy if you love the series. Think of Flight Simulator. You'd hardly play that for a laugh, it's because you enjoy simulating a flying experience.

And FM is trying to recreate the experience of being a Football Manager. And if you feel frustration, unfairly hard done by and close to giving the game up but for some reason, the passion for football keeps you going. . . . .then i think FM has hit the nail on the head and delivered on it's promise of being the most realistic Football Management simulation on the planet.

 

[W4NKER]

Na if that match was a FM game Australia would have won 8-2, with their shittest striker scoring every chance


View attachment 369613

 

[penquin11]

The main problem is believing that the formation/tactic is responsible for the win.

It's not. The players are the ones who are important. you need ot identify your best XI. This dose not mean picking the best XI players in the squad. This means finding the best XI who work well together, who can cover each other weaknesses and who'd PPM's combine well with each other.

I base my tactics on a "shape" of how I want to play but I adjust about 100 time per match to suit the opposition. Never think that a tactic is an instant win, it's just a shape, a method, a style. It's instructions for how your team should play but if you ignore the opposition, the tactic will fail!


There are countless threads on here that you can find. I can't link them to you since most of what I've learned has come from reading about FM the past 5 years.

I agree and disagree. On one hand I completely agree that selecting your squad has much more to do with teamwork and how the team "jells", but on the other hand I believe that tactics can have a huge impact on how the game plays out. I have a manager game going as Shrewsbury FC right now where I played Arsenal in a friendly in my opening year. The first time I played the match I was utilizing my good-ole 4231 tactic, it is predicated on offense and speed, and can rack up points in a hurry against slower or less skilled teams.... But, as Arsenal was the better team, I lost the game 5-0. Since it was a friendly I didn't think anything of it, so I went to save only to have my game crash (no idea why either). The next time I loaded up the game I decided to use a 5-2-3. This tactic was much more defensive and there was a noticeable improvement in my defenders performance with it. I ended up winning against Arsenal 2-1 in a thrilling match. By all means it should have been a tie or loss (a 1-0 or 2-0 loss) as they thoroughly dominated the ball (63%), but my defense just played out of it's mind.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

I agree and disagree. On one hand I completely agree that selecting your squad has much more to do with teamwork and how the team "jells", but on the other hand I believe that tactics can have a huge impact on how the game plays out. I have a manager game going as Shrewsbury FC right now where I played Arsenal in a friendly in my opening year. The first time I played the match I was utilizing my good-ole 4231 tactic, it is predicated on offense and speed, and can rack up points in a hurry against slower or less skilled teams.... But, as Arsenal was the better team, I lost the game 5-0. Since it was a friendly I didn't think anything of it, so I went to save only to have my game crash (no idea why either). The next time I loaded up the game I decided to use a 5-2-3. This tactic was much more defensive and there was a noticeable improvement in my defenders performance with it. I ended up winning against Arsenal 2-1 in a thrilling match. By all means it should have been a tie or loss (a 1-0 or 2-0 loss) as they thoroughly dominated the ball (63%), but my defense just played out of it's mind.

Play the match out 10 time with your 4231 and then play it agian 10 times with your 523 and see if you get consistent results. I once beat Liverpool 5-1 in a free season friendly with Adanaspor but I'm sure if I was to replay this game 10 time, Liverpool would destroy me more times than not.

I believe that a formation only works because you have the players to carry out the roles effectively. A formations is like a car, it's great at getting you from point A to point B, but unless you have someone who knows how to drive the car, it's pointless and won't go anywhere.

 

[WJ]

Yes, I can appreciate your logic and how that might explain a team getting the odd goal back but it's basically a pattern that happens fairly often, and surely you'd appreciate that when most teams go **** for leather in a real game they usually get punished? I mean, you haven't experienced anything like this yourself? Also, yes, i generally have my team talks very much sorted now and get possitive reactions from the whole team, after using the individual talk to follow up on my general one. Team talks aren't all that tricky. Understand that I'm not saying this is an occurence for every game, but the times I seem to suffer are generally from something that seems very out of place from the whole pattern of the game

I have experienced this, that's how I know what's wrong. I didn't mean for it to sound as harsh as it came out, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I see this a lot and I'll use your 2 goal lead example in mine: I get the situation quite often, where I go 2 goals up. Generally we're okay until half-time. I'm guessing the AI also won't do too much before then. At half-time, they have a chance to re-group and motivate the players again. They usually come out flying (as happens IRL too). I never used to change anything. I mean my tactic "worked" in the first half, right? My fairly attacking tactic (on Control mentality) couldn't cope with the intense closing down and especially the number of players charging forward.

What I do now; I have my "standard" tactic (Control mentality) and I have a counter tactic (Counter mentality). At half-time, I realise that we're 2-0 up. While I want more goals, I know the AI needs goals more than I do. I'm winning! So all I do is switch to the counter tactic. We sit and wait for their players to bomb forward, counter and make it 3-0. Then it is game over. The AI will realise the game is lost and they'll go defensive, again, like it would happen IRL. Then I switch back to my normal tactic and rip them apart further. Make sense?

Be careful of getting "Green" reactions all the time, when giving team talks. It's not always a good thing.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

Chile are 2-0 up against Spain in a must win game for Spain . . . . . . I think this ends the debate on whether FM is like real life

 

[dave256]

Chile are 2-0 up against Spain in a must win game for Spain . . . . . . I think this ends the debate on whether FM is like real life

No. The ME would now dictate that Spain are 2-0 behind and so some miraculous come back will take place and Spain will win 3-2