If Australia beat Holland today then I'll believe that this years FM COULD be real

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

No. The ME would now dictate that Spain are 2-0 behind and so some miraculous come back will take place and Spain will win 3-2

If Spain do manage to turn it around, I can't wait for the"Comeback King!" Steam achievement to pop up on screen.

 

[WJ]

No. The ME would now dictate that Spain are 2-0 behind and so some miraculous come back will take place and Spain will win 3-2

I thought I already gave you an explanation? If you notice, Chile are more cautious now at 2-0. They're doing exactly the same as in my example.

 

[dave256]

I thought I already gave you an explanation? If you notice, Chile are more cautious now at 2-0. They're doing exactly the same as in my example.

I'm just being pedantic. My problem with the game is the feeling of lack of control. Some people like it and some don't. I've personally preferred previous games as you can see the changes you make take place on the pitch. I've found it hard to see that in this edition and I personally just like to mould players using micro-managing and seeing how one tiny notch on a slider can make a difference...that was just more fun for me. Yes, yes, I can go back and play previous versions but that's not the point. I'm not slamming the ME anymore but just personally saying it's not to my taste. I've just got bored now of spending hrs and hrs on a tactic for it to suddenly faulter oddly. It's just not fun.

I would say though that if the WB's/FB's positioned themselves better then I'd have more patience. They just come in far too narrow when defending and I've found no way to stop that. I want my FB's to sit in the gap in between the CD and the winger but I've found no way to do this. They either come in tighter to the striker and then make a mad rush out to the winger or mark the winger and leave a huge gap between themselves and the CD. That would be my main complaint. If you have found any way to apply what I'd like to do then it would be much appreciated

 

[kuliet]

The ME has discovered Spain's tactic, so it doesn't work any more. FM14, is realistic XD

 

[WJ]

I'm just being pedantic. My problem with the game is the feeling of lack of control. Some people like it and some don't. I've personally preferred previous games as you can see the changes you make take place on the pitch. I've found it hard to see that in this edition and I personally just like to mould players using micro-managing and seeing how one tiny notch on a slider can make a difference...that was just more fun for me. Yes, yes, I can go back and play previous versions but that's not the point. I'm not slamming the ME anymore but just personally saying it's not to my taste. I've just got bored now of spending hrs and hrs on a tactic for it to suddenly faulter oddly. It's just not fun.

I would say though that if the WB's/FB's positioned themselves better then I'd have more patience. They just come in far too narrow when defending and I've found no way to stop that. I want my FB's to sit in the gap in between the CD and the winger but I've found no way to do this. They either come in tighter to the striker and then make a mad rush out to the winger or mark the winger and leave a huge gap between themselves and the CD. That would be my main complaint. If you have found any way to apply what I'd like to do then it would be much appreciated

No worries. You're one of the better posters here so far, even if I don't agree with you. We can at least generate some good discussion.

I think I understand what you mean, but I think fullbacks get unfairly criticised in general for letting the wide player through. I use a 442 diamond (4-1-2-1-2) and defensively, I don't see this happening. I see my fullbacks intercept those passes fairly often or they tackle the winger/show him wide. I don't even use OIs! I don't even use the Tight Marking team instruction at the moment.

I think some of the perceived criticism is due to only watching Key highlights. You'll only see where your fullback isn't intercepting those passes, so automatically think it's "broken" or an ME flaw. What level of highlights do you watch? I always recommend watching as much as you can or have time to watch. I used to watch full matches early on in FM14, so I'm quite familiar with the game tactically. I watch on comprehensive now.

It really shouldn't take your hours to set up a tactic, in all honesty. I tinker a lot on my PC save, but on my Vita save, I set up a tactic in about 5-10 minutes. I tested it in 2 friendly games, watching on Comprehensive and kept an eye on it during the first 2-3 games of the season. I didn't even need to change anything to it. I've just finished the season and I haven't changed anything and won the league with a mid-table team, watching the matches on Extended only.

Assuming you watch quite a bit of the game, there are two key things for me:

(1) D-Line. I'm careful not to play too high. D-Lines that are too high are prone to through balls and if you're playing with a back 4, that would be the channel between DC and FB. I'd suggest dropping on level deeper. If you're using Push Much Higher, go down to Push Higher. Push Higher to Default etc.

(2) The other problem, is not enough pressure on the ball carrier so that he has time to pick those passes. This could be down to anything, really. You could change your roles to cover the dangerman better. You could specific man-mark him. You could play a DM, if you're not already. Hassle Opponents could also cause it, by pushing your midfield too high and leaving a gap behind them for their dangerman to operate in and slip through balls to their wide men. What I do now, is take off Hassle Opponents (because it maxes out closing down for everyone and that's dangerous) and instead I give my midfielders the Close Down More instruction or I play Ball-Winning Midfielders to hassle those playmakers. That keeps closing down at a "normal" level for your defence, which keeps their shape better. Better shape = more interceptions.

Hope this helps?

 

[dave256]

No worries. You're one of the better posters here so far, even if I don't agree with you. We can at least generate some good discussion.

I think I understand what you mean, but I think fullbacks get unfairly criticised in general for letting the wide player through. I use a 442 diamond (4-1-2-1-2) and defensively, I don't see this happening. I see my fullbacks intercept those passes fairly often or they tackle the winger/show him wide. I don't even use OIs! I don't even use the Tight Marking team instruction at the moment.

I think some of the perceived criticism is due to only watching Key highlights. You'll only see where your fullback isn't intercepting those passes, so automatically think it's "broken" or an ME flaw. What level of highlights do you watch? I always recommend watching as much as you can or have time to watch. I used to watch full matches early on in FM14, so I'm quite familiar with the game tactically. I watch on comprehensive now.

It really shouldn't take your hours to set up a tactic, in all honesty. I tinker a lot on my PC save, but on my Vita save, I set up a tactic in about 5-10 minutes. I tested it in 2 friendly games, watching on Comprehensive and kept an eye on it during the first 2-3 games of the season. I didn't even need to change anything to it. I've just finished the season and I haven't changed anything and won the league with a mid-table team, watching the matches on Extended only.

Assuming you watch quite a bit of the game, there are two key things for me:

(1) D-Line. I'm careful not to play too high. D-Lines that are too high are prone to through balls and if you're playing with a back 4, that would be the channel between DC and FB. I'd suggest dropping on level deeper. If you're using Push Much Higher, go down to Push Higher. Push Higher to Default etc.

(2) The other problem, is not enough pressure on the ball carrier so that he has time to pick those passes. This could be down to anything, really. You could change your roles to cover the dangerman better. You could specific man-mark him. You could play a DM, if you're not already. Hassle Opponents could also cause it, by pushing your midfield too high and leaving a gap behind them for their dangerman to operate in and slip through balls to their wide men. What I do now, is take off Hassle Opponents (because it maxes out closing down for everyone and that's dangerous) and instead I give my midfielders the Close Down More instruction or I play Ball-Winning Midfielders to hassle those playmakers. That keeps closing down at a "normal" level for your defence, which keeps their shape better. Better shape = more interceptions.

Hope this helps?

No worries, I can appreciate how people can get sick of others bashing the game when it's a game you like.

I always watch the full game on the 2d version.

I agree with the d-line mainly just to a personal preference of never liking to play an offside trap, which obviously works well with a high pressure, high d-line style. I usually leave it at default or 1 deeper.

I also always choose to play a DM position to plug the hole in front of the defence. To elaborate further, I'm actually preferring having 3 CD's, 1 DM and then 2 WB's on support or attack depending on the situation. This means I always have 4 players back (3 CD's + DM) and the WB's support the attack and defence, so I rarely get hit on counters. Tbh, I do usually use hassle opponents but only coz I've found that players walk past my players without it. I've never liked using closing down too aggressively for the reason it pulls players out of position, but I've just found that without it my team are fairly static when tackling. I havent tried man marking the potential playmaker for the same reason that I'd rather have the defensive midfielders zonal to cover the space, but I can give it a try. I think you're right in neutralising the threat of the pass before it happens but its still frustrating not being able to shape the team to my own design. The sliders worked especially well for closing down specifically as you could basically notch each player to the point of creating their own little zone of terror and you could pretty much picture their 'circle' in which they would close down. If I could work out the roles to visualise that circle then I think I'd be happy. I hope my circle thing makes sense lol

To give you an idea of how I usually set up, which might help you advise me more I really apprciate your help as I'd never pretend to understand these things lol

so I basically play 3 CD (d), 2 WB (more advanced position) (s), DM (s), AP (in CM pos) (A), B2B, SS and a striker which I'm toying with the role at the mo. So my idea with this is 2 have 3 stay back (DM basically sits in the hole), AP and B2B supporting the attack (B2B has go forward more, AP has roam), WB's have get forward more and ss and striker stay in the final third

I usually play very fluid on control or attack

 

[WJ]

Okay and which Team Instructions do you use, just so I get the full picture? Your ST is on Attack duty, I assume? So a CF/A, P/A or DLF/A?

 

[dave256]

Okay and which Team Instructions do you use, just so I get the full picture? Your ST is on Attack duty, I assume? So a CF/A, P/A or DLF/A?

I havent actually decided too much on the striker role really as I've found strikers quite tricky to work out. I usually go for a DLF with the AP (a) in the midfield position behind him. Team instructions I use are usually pretty basic; drop deeper, get stuck in, hassle (but will take your advice and remove), direct passing, look for overlap and thats pretty much it as a rule

 

[WJ]

It's obviously a risky setup, just looking at what you've given me so far. What specifically is the problem with this tactic? The positioning of the two Wingbacks, leaving you open to through balls in the channel?

In the main, if it's bringing you success, keep it. I'll give you more detailed feedback once I get your answers and if you still need it.

I would suggest having a 2nd tactic though. Look at what Chile did tonight. Took the 2 goal lead and switched to plan B after half-time. Them being more cautious and hitting Spain on the counter almost worked a few times and they could (should?) have won by more. IMO, you need a plan B like that for when the opposition throw players forward.

Due to the setup you have, you're going to have a gap in front of your defence in the transition, which could be exploited by a team throwing a lot of players forward quickly. That needs to be stopped, because the AI will try to get back into the game at some point and do this.

 

[WJ]

I havent actually decided too much on the striker role really as I've found strikers quite tricky to work out. I usually go for a DLF with the AP (a) in the midfield position behind him. Team instructions I use are usually pretty basic; drop deeper, get stuck in, hassle (but will take your advice and remove), direct passing, look for overlap and thats pretty much it as a rule

DLF/A or DLF/S?

Just a few general notes here.

Drop Deeper combined with Hassle Opponents is a bad idea. You're already separating your defence from your midfield by having no Defend duties in midfield and Drop Deeper will make it worse. It's going to be suicidal against a lot of opposition players bombing forward quickly.

Are you happy with Direct Passing? On Attack mentality, passing will already be quite direct for your midfield and forwards.

 

[dave256]

Sorry. Just to update, I've changed the B2B to a CM (a) to push him forward more and using an f9 in attack to help build up from the midfield

 

[dave256]

DLF/A or DLF/S?

Just a few general notes here.

Drop Deeper combined with Hassle Opponents is a bad idea. You're already separating your defence from your midfield by having no Defend duties in midfield and Drop Deeper will make it worse. It's going to be suicidal against a lot of opposition players bombing forward quickly.

Are you happy with Direct Passing? On Attack mentality, passing will already be quite direct for your midfield and forwards.

Yeah, I've removed the hassle and so wont use that anymore. thank you

Do you mind explaining why attack mentality will make it more direct? I'm using Control but it's more to push the WB's a bit further when attacking

 

[WJ]

Do you mind explaining why attack mentality will make it more direct? I'm using Control but it's more to push the WB's a bit further when attacking

It just is by default. On lower mentalities, Defenders (and I think Defend Duty midfielders) are more direct, to clear the ball. Midfielders and Forwards having shorter passing to keep possession better.

On the higher mentalities, Defenders will have shorter passing than the rest of the team to encourage them to play it out with shorter passes more, rather than hoof it. When the ball gets to the midfield and strikers, they'll play attacking and direct, like the mentality dictates. Obviously on Attacking and Overload this is very pronounced.

Control is mid-way between Standard and Attacking, so your team will (I think) have more or less a similar directness in their passing, but the defenders' passing will still be slightly shorter.

Especially if you've changed from a B2B to a CM/A, the direct passing could benefit you as you'll have the SS and CM/A bombing forward, supporting the F9.

 

[dave256]

It just is by default. On lower mentalities, Defenders (and I think Defend Duty midfielders) are more direct, to clear the ball. Midfielders and Forwards having shorter passing to keep possession better.

On the higher mentalities, Defenders will have shorter passing than the rest of the team to encourage them to play it out with shorter passes more, rather than hoof it. When the ball gets to the midfield and strikers, they'll play attacking and direct, like the mentality dictates. Obviously on Attacking and Overload this is very pronounced.

Control is mid-way between Standard and Attacking, so your team will (I think) have more or less a similar directness in their passing, but the defenders' passing will still be slightly shorter.

Especially if you've changed from a B2B to a CM/A, the direct passing could benefit you as you'll have the SS and CM/A bombing forward, supporting the F9.

Thanks for all your advice and time to explain on this

 

[LeedsUnitedAndProud]

Play the match out 10 time with your 4231 and then play it agian 10 times with your 523 and see if you get consistent results. I once beat Liverpool 5-1 in a free season friendly with Adanaspor but I'm sure if I was to replay this game 10 time, Liverpool would destroy me more times than not.

I believe that a formation only works because you have the players to carry out the roles effectively. A formations is like a car, it's great at getting you from point A to point B, but unless you have someone who knows how to drive the car, it's pointless and won't go anywhere.

I agree with this 100% but you also sounded a lot like my teams new owner (Massimo Cellino) with the metaphors/similes or whatever but yeah formations will only take you to a certain point and too often I have relied on the formation too much rather than my players suiting the formation and roles and often if I used a defensive formation I would usually miss out the hard working midfielder and have the creative midfielder instead. Not that it always effects the result because luck can come into play, I'm rabbling on here so I'll stop whilst I can