Is FM2015 worth it?

[Aannddyy]

FM10 was a bug fest from memory, but each to their own I suppose.

How dare you!? The FM10 corner glitch was the most amazing thing ever.

-At least I think it was FM10

 

[WJ]

So why are so many people complaining about the stupid amount of shots to goal ratios? You reckon 47 shots in a Champions League Final is realistic? And from what I'm reading on the threads, that's happening all the time. That would be impossible on FM10, so how can the AI be better every year in terms of realism?

Play the demo yourself. People download one-dimensional, shot happy tactics that'll skew ratios. Build a proper tactic and you won't run into those problems.

The AI is ridiculously simplistic on FM10. They don't make any changes at all. At least on the newer FMs, they change mentalities, roles and shouts. The shouts may even depend on your tactic. Use a narrow tactic with only fullbacks/wingbacks? They may "exploit the flanks". You get the drift.

The ME is also miles better.

 

[Bowieinspace26]

Play the demo yourself. People download one-dimensional, shot happy tactics that'll skew ratios. Build a proper tactic and you won't run into those problems.

The AI is ridiculously simplistic on FM10. They don't make any changes at all. At least on the newer FMs, they change mentalities, roles and shouts. The shouts may even depend on your tactic. Use a narrow tactic with only fullbacks/wingbacks? They may "exploit the flanks". You get the drift.

The ME is also miles better.

While I agree with a lot of what you say here, I disagree with what you say in your first paragraph. I have not downloaded a tactic, I built it myself and gradually developed it over a number of seasons to suit my players. Now I can just play the same tactic in every game and just steam roller everyone with a completely home grown squad of players, finishing seasons with a 100+ goal difference in the league.

FWIW my tactic goes as follows:
4-2-3-1, Control, Fluid
GK - D
WB - AUTO
CD - D
CD - D
WB - AUTO
CM - D
DLP - S
AMR - Winger S
AMC - AP A
AML - IF S
AF - A

Push higher up, retain possession, work ball into box, play out of defence, whipped crosses, close down more, use offside trap, tighter marking, higher tempo. There are a few individual instructions as well but not many.

Now someone could easily look at that and decide I'm using some sort of ME exploit, but that's a problem in itself, because there shouldn't be a way of using a certain combination of shouts/tactics to create an OP tactic...if the ME was really superb it just wouldn't be possible as your weaknesses would get exploited regularly by an intelligent AI. As it is we basically just strangle the opposition and they can't get out of their own half for most of the game, seemingly regardless of how good their players are compared to mine.


If the AI was so intelligent and there wasn't a bit of an issue with the ME/AI, do you not think that after a number of seasons the opposition would have figured me out? And even if they couldn't figure me out, surely Barca/Real with awesome teams could stop me having 40 shots against them simply because they have such strong squads. They're not just hit and hope long shots either....first game of the season vs Real Madrid - 35 shots, 7 CCC, 4-0 victory. If you're a strong team in your league, in my opinion it's just too easy to demolish teams and control games. If you're a weak team in your league, the opposite can do the same and you just get pummelled by everyone...except the AI can't do it as well as the human player can.

Yes I think there have been improvements in FM15 compared to previous versions, but in my opinion, there is a significant issue with how the match engine works.

 

[WJ]

While I agree with a lot of what you say here, I disagree with what you say in your first paragraph. I have not downloaded a tactic, I built it myself and gradually developed it over a number of seasons to suit my players. Now I can just play the same tactic in every game and just steam roller everyone with a completely home grown squad of players, finishing seasons with a 100+ goal difference in the league.

FWIW my tactic goes as follows:
4-2-3-1, Control, Fluid
GK - D
WB - AUTO
CD - D
CD - D
WB - AUTO
CM - D
DLP - S
AMR - Winger S
AMC - AP A
AML - IF S
AF - A

Push higher up, retain possession, work ball into box, play out of defence, whipped crosses, close down more, use offside trap, tighter marking, higher tempo. There are a few individual instructions as well but not many.

Now someone could easily look at that and decide I'm using some sort of ME exploit, but that's a problem in itself, because there shouldn't be a way of using a certain combination of shouts/tactics to create an OP tactic...if the ME was really superb it just wouldn't be possible as your weaknesses would get exploited regularly by an intelligent AI. As it is we basically just strangle the opposition and they can't get out of their own half for most of the game, seemingly regardless of how good their players are compared to mine.


If the AI was so intelligent and there wasn't a bit of an issue with the ME/AI, do you not think that after a number of seasons the opposition would have figured me out? And even if they couldn't figure me out, surely Barca/Real with awesome teams could stop me having 40 shots against them simply because they have such strong squads. They're not just hit and hope long shots either....first game of the season vs Real Madrid - 35 shots, 7 CCC, 4-0 victory. If you're a strong team in your league, in my opinion it's just too easy to demolish teams and control games. If you're a weak team in your league, the opposite can do the same and you just get pummelled by everyone...except the AI can't do it as well as the human player can.

Yes I think there have been improvements in FM15 compared to previous versions, but in my opinion, there is a significant issue with how the match engine works.

Like I said - one dimensional tactics. Your tactic (whether intended or not) relies solely on your AF to find space and score. For some reason, you also have too many (and unnecessary) TIs. Some TIs, like Retain Possession, will hurt you more than help. It's a poor tactic. I don't care how well you do, it's poor. You'll get many unnecessary shots, because there's a lack of movement... everywhere.

 

[DannyT2k]

Haha, lamest response ever. Give over.

 

[WJ]

Haha, lamest response ever. Give over.

You could also learn a few things about the game. When players don't have viable passing options (so out of options), they'll shoot, especially at the higher mentalities. Furthermore, he's limiting their options significantly by using Retain Possession, which takes away passes into space. So, with limited movement, passing to feet and doing this at a higher tempo will be a difficult ask. They won't have proper passing options, so will shoot a lot. Better response?

 

[WJ]

I'll add, that it's a purely counter attacking tactic, wrongly given a Control mentality. Regardless though, it has very limited movement.

 

[Bowieinspace26]

I'll add, that it's a purely counter attacking tactic, wrongly given a Control mentality. Regardless though, it has very limited movement.

My post wasn't to discuss how amazing my tactic was, but never the less, I hope you're enjoying that view down your nose. I'm not going to justify why I have certain options selected, simply because that tactic was developed in game over time to win matches and if I had go through every gradual change and development I'd made to it, and how that worked for each individual player in my team because of their specific attributes/play style, we'd be here all day. I could make a tactic that makes perfect sense on paper, but when put into the ME, it might not work as well for my players as this one.

Which brings me back to the reason I made that post in the first place. If my 'poor tactic' gives me 30 shots+, 6 CCC+ on average per game, well surely there is a problem with the ME. I've played more than enough of this game, and am a big enough football fan, to know what makes sense and what doesn't in a 'proper' tactic. If the tactic isn't playing out as I intend it to on the ME I'm going to experiment with it until I get the results I want and the team does better, regardless of whether it does/doesn't make sense on paper.

Edit - Just FYI. In the Real Madrid game I mentioned before, out of my 35 shots, 2 were from outside the box. So if a tactic with 'no movement' and 'no passing options' can create 33 shots inside the box against Real Madrid, with players of a similar standard, surely there is a problem.

 

[wkdsoul]

Why not play the demo?

 

[WJ]

My post wasn't to discuss how amazing my tactic was, but never the less, I hope you're enjoying that view down your nose. I'm not going to justify why I have certain options selected, simply because that tactic was developed in game over time to win matches and if I had go through every gradual change and development I'd made to it, and how that worked for each individual player in my team because of their specific attributes/play style, we'd be here all day. I could make a tactic that makes perfect sense on paper, but when put into the ME, it might not work as well for my players as this one.

Which brings me back to the reason I made that post in the first place. If my 'poor tactic' gives me 30 shots+, 6 CCC+ on average per game, well surely there is a problem with the ME. I've played more than enough of this game, and am a big enough football fan, to know what makes sense and what doesn't in a 'proper' tactic. If the tactic isn't playing out as I intend it to on the ME I'm going to experiment with it until I get the results I want and the team does better, regardless of whether it does/doesn't make sense on paper.

Edit - Just FYI. In the Real Madrid game I mentioned before, out of my 35 shots, 2 were from outside the box. So if a tactic with 'no movement' and 'no passing options' can create 33 shots inside the box against Real Madrid, with players of a similar standard, surely there is a problem.

You didn't read what I said, did you? Try again.

It doesn't matter where the shots are from. It's a poor tactic; plain and simple. Like I said though, on the counter you'll be okay. When there's no counter on though, it's a poor tactic with little movement. I'm not taking any PPMs into account though. That might make a difference.

 

[Bowieinspace26]

You didn't read what I said, did you? Try again.

It doesn't matter where the shots are from. It's a poor tactic; plain and simple. Like I said though, on the counter you'll be okay. When there's no counter on though, it's a poor tactic with little movement. I'm not taking any PPMs into account though. That might make a difference.

Yet we average over 60% possession and score very few of our goals on the counter. You're absolutely right about the PPM's, without seeing those and the attributes of my players, it's pretty difficult to judge.

I read very clearly what you said, you're saying my tactic is poor and it's one dimensional and shot happy. I'm not arguing with you about the quality of my tactic on paper - I've very clearly said that I developed this tactic to work with my players in this ME, not to make perfect theoretical sense (I started with that and worked away from it to get my players to do what I wanted them to do in this ME - including good movement, good passing, control of matches, lots of chances, goals from lots of different players). If the tactic I've developed here, IN THE ME, had no movement and no passing options, we would create very few clear cut chances against good sides. The simple fact is we have loads of CCC's every game.

I feel like you're looking to criticise the tactic but not actually acknowledging that the whole point of what I've been saying is that there are problems in the match engine. If a tactic is rubbish, it shouldn't be able to dominate the worlds best teams. And even if a tactic was good and the players were good, people can achieve unrealistic things on this ME

 

[WJ]

Yet we average over 60% possession and score very few of our goals on the counter. You're absolutely right about the PPM's, without seeing those and the attributes of my players, it's pretty difficult to judge.

I read very clearly what you said, you're saying my tactic is poor and it's one dimensional and shot happy. I'm not arguing with you about the quality of my tactic on paper - I've very clearly said that I developed this tactic to work with my players in this ME, not to make perfect theoretical sense (I started with that and worked away from it to get my players to do what I wanted them to do in this ME - including good movement, good passing, control of matches, lots of chances, goals from lots of different players). If the tactic I've developed here, IN THE ME, had no movement and no passing options, we would create very few clear cut chances against good sides. The simple fact is we have loads of CCC's every game.

I feel like you're looking to criticise the tactic but not actually acknowledging that the whole point of what I've been saying is that there are problems in the match engine. If a tactic is rubbish, it shouldn't be able to dominate the worlds best teams. And even if a tactic was good and the players were good, people can achieve unrealistic things on this ME

Then we agree. On paper, it's a poor tactic. PPMs will influence this though.

Who are you managing and where are you predicted to finish?

 

[Bowieinspace26]

Then we agree. On paper, it's a poor tactic. PPMs will influence this though.

Who are you managing and where are you predicted to finish?

Athletic Club, last season (I left the club for 5 seasons and then returned at the beginning of last season), we were predicted 3rd but won the league undefeated. This season, unsurprisingly, we're predicted 1st. Used the same tactic prior to leaving the club and won 3 consecutive Champions Leagues.

Used the same tactic with tiny tweaks with Dortmund (predicted 4th finished 1st), and Parma, predicted 10th finished 2nd. My other seasons not at Athletic either were on holiday looking for a new club I liked the look of, or using a different tactic as my team was predicted much further down the league. E.g. first season with Parma, predicted last, I used a 4-1-2-3 counter for a lot of games, and then just used the 4-2-3-1 for easier home games.

 

[WJ]

Those are decent results, I'll concede. Like you say though, it's been set up according to what "works" in this ME. If anything changes (and it will for FM16) you're going to struggle and make the post your frustrations thread your new home. For now though, 3 CLs is pretty good.

 

[Bowieinspace26]

Those are decent results, I'll concede. Like you say though, it's been set up according to what "works" in this ME. If anything changes (and it will for FM16) you're going to struggle and make the post your frustrations thread your new home. For now though, 3 CLs is pretty good.

Haha thanks

Yeah I've put probably 500 hours+ into every FM since CM 03-04 so I'll manage just fine in FM16

Who do you play with?

 

[WJ]

Haha thanks

Yeah I've put probably 500 hours+ into every FM since CM 03-04 so I'll manage just fine in FM16

Who do you play with?

Good. If you can work around it, great, but surely you change your tactics/approach quite a bit from version (or patch) to version/patch? I never have to do that, as long as I stick to a few basics. Obviously there will be slight tweaking, but it's more about getting the tactic right in terms of getting everyone in space and enough movement between the lines than what "works" in the ME.

I go with whoever would take me! I only have one save per edition. Started off unemployed with no qualifications or experience. Goyang in South Korea took pity on me, then left for Le Mans before switching to Sheffield United and now I'm in my first season at Ajax. Why?

 

[Bowieinspace26]

Good. If you can work around it, great, but surely you change your tactics/approach quite a bit from version (or patch) to version/patch? I never have to do that, as long as I stick to a few basics. Obviously there will be slight tweaking, but it's more about getting the tactic right in terms of getting everyone in space and enough movement between the lines than what "works" in the ME.

I go with whoever would take me! I only have one save per edition. Started off unemployed with no qualifications or experience. Goyang in South Korea took pity on me, then left for Le Mans before switching to Sheffield United and now I'm in my first season at Ajax. Why?

Honestly no, just small tweaks maybe. That tactic didn't really change at all through the final couple of patches.

Nice, I've never played much in the leagues outside of Europe but I'm tempted to give it a go at some point

 

[WJ]

Honestly no, just small tweaks maybe. That tactic didn't really change at all through the final couple of patches.

Yes, but what about previous FMs?

 

[Bowieinspace26]

Yes, but what about previous FMs?

Generally very similar, I try to develop my team towards a 4-2-3-1 (or 4-1-2-3 if they're a bit weaker and I need to be more defensive). In past FMs I've had a slower tempo & shorter passing selected, but not found that worthwhile for fm15. I found that retain possession/pass out of defence naturally shortened the passing anyway, and work ball into the box kept the team patient enough without a slower tempo being required, so it created a nice blend. I found if I went for the slower tempo, we faffed around with the ball around the box way too much and often got closed down in midfield too easily - I wanted that dream combination of patient and controlling, but with more of a cutting edge, especially around the box. I still wanted to pass the ball into the box rather than always crossing, so I didn't want to remove the work ball into box option, so the tempo change fitted.

I've generally stuck with the same central midfield pairing, one largely sitting/holding defensive and one deep lying passer type. With some teams I've had a box to box as well, just depends on the other players in the team. I've previously played with the AMC on a support role, and the wide players on attack roles, but I found that meant the wide players didn't help enough defensively, and it often left the AMC sitting too close to the central midfield pairing, and if the wide players weren't narrow, and the forward was pushing onto the defensive line the AMC had no decent forward passing options as everyone was too far away or swamped by defenders.

I've definitely changed some player roles compared to fm14/13 etc but if I'm playing a 4-2-3-1 I want the team to play the same way. I just tweak the tactic to make sure it plays correctly in the match engine.

 

[WJ]

Then I'm surprised, because it lacks runners. Making that IF an attack duty would do wonders and with basically a double pivot, you can be much more adventurous with one or even both wingbacks.

Retain Possession is limiting your creativity as it'll limit crossing and through balls/passes into space. You're left with an AF trying to find space and a static midfield trying to dribble through the defence after a slow build-up.

How are you generally scoring goals?