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Need your tactical suggestions

michelhovel

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May 24, 2011
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Hello everyone,

I'm on the 3rd season with Burnely.
At the 3 seasons I played almost the same tactics with some tweaks.
1st season I ended at 7th position I played on standard mentality flexible and those instructions:
View attachment 258124

At the 2nd season I ended in 4th place, 2nd place had 1 more point than me and Chelsea the champions winner was ridiculous - I signed some good players so I wanted my team to push more with higher defensive line I used same tactics with a bit different instructions:
View attachment 258122

At the 3rd season I singed some good players and yet, I'm really struggling to score.
this are my results:
View attachment 258114View attachment 258112

Most frustration matches:
View attachment 258110View attachment 258109View attachment 258109View attachment 258106



Maybe I'm doing something wrong and I need some of you to guide me.
I didn't finished the season yet but something I noticed.
1st season and 2nd season chealsea won with the same amount of points.

1st season:
View attachment 258104
2nd season:
View attachment 258102
and it seems like the 3rd season will be the same i guess, im on 2nd place and they are leading by 12 points.

Do you think it's a glitch?

I will be much appreciate if someone can help me.
Edit: I'm not experienced enough in this game so maybe I'm wrong in all the aspects.

Thanks in advance,
Michel
 
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Igneos79

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Jun 19, 2010
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well, your anchor man is doing nothing but sitting back. In a fluid setup, the holding midfielder should be in the central midfield area, and dm should support. Next, your sidebacks and bbm are roaming which isn't fit for fluid team shape, they are more fit for very fluid team shape. You can check player instructions and notice roaming is already on. Next, the only player with finishing ability is your false nine, meaning you only expect him to score. Therefore you need someone like Messi, genuine quality player, hungry for goals.
 
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WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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It's not a glitch.

You don't have anyone making runs ahead of play and being a threat, stretching the opposition and receiving through balls.
 

Igneos79

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It's not a glitch.

You don't have anyone making runs ahead of play and being a threat, stretching the opposition and receiving through balls.
yes, he needs at least two players with "run from deep" on often if he wants to use a support duty for striker, either a winger attack or inside forward attack or 2 CM attack...
 

callamity

Member
Jul 16, 2012
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quick question regarding player choice

are you aware of balanta and caulkers PPM's? Might they have a detrimental effect on how you are defending?

As previously mentioned your only real runner would be a BBM which in your case is Lucas Romero? Off the ball movement is key for a good BBM Lucas Romero is around 12 ish?

A false 9 is almost like an advanced playmaker in the striker slot. They will spend most time around the edge of the area.

Look for overlap will reduce forward runs from central players and AML/R will narrow and hold up the ball instead of being more direct, this ontop of support duty is overkill.

Pass into space will instruct more killer balls, and there is no one looking to get on the end of these.

@Igneos

Why are CWB's and a BBM not suitable for a fluid set up?
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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Because they roam. :rollseyes:


I wouldn't even classify a B2B as a runner. He makes late runs into the box only. That's not good enough, especially in this setup.
 

callamity

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Jul 16, 2012
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that was something I was trying to emphasise a BBM isnt a penetrating runner, I new I missed a sentence somewhere
 

WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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That's a good description "penetrating runner". That's exactly what's needed in the tactic.
 

michelhovel

Member
May 24, 2011
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Hey guys, thank you very much for the help and tips.
Regardless the B2B role, I forgot to change it.
I'm playing with deep lying playmaker support next to advance playmaker.
Should i change the tactics with 2 strikers instead or what role should I give to the striker alone? poacher will leave him alone on top and in some matches I assume he won't be effective.
Thanks in advance.
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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The number of strikers isn't the problem. It's that no one (strikers or midfielders) is making any runs. Attack duties (although some attack duties are don't) make runs ahead of play. You don't have that. They're all just static. At the absolute minimum, you need at least 1.

It's not your only problem (there's still the TI overload) but that's the main one.
 
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WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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I'll take Hyde, and play this, you take some other team, and we play a friendly?
Ffs... that's not the point.

If you can explain IN FOOTBALLING TERMS why that's a good tactic, then I'll agree. It still doesn't take into account his players!. Until then, you can put away your **** and the ruler.
 

Igneos79

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Ffs... that's not the point.

If you can explain IN FOOTBALLING TERMS why that's a good tactic, then I'll agree. It still doesn't take into account his players!. Until then, you can put away your **** and the ruler.
If you can explain in whatever terms you wish why this setup doesn't suit this formation, I'll put away my **** and the ruler. Yes, it probably doesn't suit his players, and I never said that, I just wrote this would suit this formation. His team would probably be better off with another formation.
 

WJ

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Apr 3, 2014
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What does he learn by just taking your tactic? He's still no better off. YOU don't even know why that tactic works or doesn't work. You chose ultra aggressive duties combined with random TIs. It's completely different to what he had. It disregards his players and whether they have the qualities to pull that off.

You aren't helping by building random tactics and injecting them into the middle of a conversation.
 

Igneos79

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Actually, come to think of it, it might suit his players very well. He is in conference, meaning he has poor quality players, better suited for structured or highly structured style. His players are probably poor at passing, so shorter passing would help. It would also add to counter mentality, since the forwards would pass around and draw opposition forward, and his defenders would clear ball forward, where many attacking duty players would come on end of those balls and counter quickly. If opponent chooses not to push up, he would play a sensible short passing, low tempo game and build attacks slowly.
 

Igneos79

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Jun 19, 2010
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What does he learn by just taking your tactic? He's still no better off. YOU don't even know why that tactic works or doesn't work. You chose ultra aggressive duties combined with random TIs. It's completely different to what he had. It disregards his players and whether they have the qualities to pull that off.

You aren't helping by building random tactics and injecting them into the middle of a conversation.
I think I did much more help with just a single screenshot, then what you did by walls of text. You often confuse people by having them make up theories of how football should be played. And I disagree with you strongly on that. I think there is only one perfect setup for each formation, and until he sets it up that way, he will never have perfect seasons. What you are doing is actually making people beleive short passing could work where it's natural to play direct, if it is so their wish. That's just wrong.
 

WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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Actually, come to think of it, it might suit his players very well. He is in conference, meaning he has poor quality players, better suited for structured or highly structured style. His players are probably poor at passing, so shorter passing would help. It would also add to counter mentality, since the forwards would pass around and draw opposition forward, and his defenders would clear ball forward, where many attacking duty players would come on end of those balls and counter quickly. If opponent chooses not to push up, he would play a sensible short passing, low tempo game and build attacks slowly.
All guesswork and generalisations. He wouldn't be playing a sensible passing game because everyone is bombing forward. The sensible passing would have come from choosing more sensible duties and the default short passing that the forward players have anyway.

Many attacking duties has nothing to do with counter. He can counter with a team full of Support duties too. I've explained this so many times, that counter immediately sets mentality to the max in a counter situation, for instance, so even support duties will bomb forward. When there's no counter, they'll play sensibly. You're trying to force a counter even when there's none on. All that'll happen is that you run into a brick wall. The front 3 will just go and sit on top of the D-Line. The only thing that'll save this tactic from being an even bigger disaster, is that the CM/A players won't push up as much as they should because their space has been taken by the front 3.

Why you'd go lower than the default lowish closing down, fairly narrow, lowish tempo game by closing down less and playing at an ever lower tempo, doesn't make sense. Especially when you don't know the players and you've not even seen it in action. Then, playing even narrower will compress your attacking 5 players all on top of each other even more. Simple to defend against.
 
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WJ

Member
Apr 3, 2014
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I think I did much more help with just a single screenshot, then what you did by walls of text. You often confuse people by having them make up theories of how football should be played. And I disagree with you strongly on that. I think there is only one perfect setup for each formation, and until he sets it up that way, he will never have perfect seasons. What you are doing is actually making people beleive short passing could work where it's natural to play direct, if it is so their wish. That's just wrong.
You can disagree all you want. I watch football, you don't. If that's the perfect setup for a 451, then I am saddened that you believe that.
 
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