Neymar hailed for Premier League snub

Tim Vickery

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Neymar saying no to Chelsea's millions and staying with Santos is being seen as a huge victory for Brazilian football.

This might be going just a little too far but more than anything else, it is a victory for common sense.

The 18-year-old is a magnificent prospect. He is sleek and skilful, able to beat the defender on either side, capable of combining well, and full of tricks he can put to productive use in and around the penalty area.

He is a goalscorer and goal maker but he is still raw.

The competitions in which he has shone - the Sao Paulo State Championship and the Brazilian Cup - are not top quality and he still has to fill out physically.

Most Brazilians who have done well in Europe have had a spell with a smaller club before moving on to a giant.


neymar_santos595credit.jpg
Neymar has signed a five-year deal at Santos

Going straight to Chelsea at this stage presents an obvious risk - he could struggle to adapt, have little playing time, find himself loaned out to a club with no stake in his development. Plenty of careers have run aground on these rocks.

Staying with Santos means that he plays in the 2011 Copa Libertadores, South America's equivalent of the Champions League, and continues a step-by-step development until, as a footballer and as a man, he is ready for Europe.

This is the point. Some have tried to portray his decision to stay as a glorious act of patriotism.

In fact he was sorely tempted, but was persuaded - in my opinion in his best interests - that not going now will improve his chances of success when he does go.

A key part of his career plan is to shine in European club football, and it could hardly be different.

The global market was set up for business in the 1980s and the floodgates opened at the end of the 90s.

Many in South America will resent it, some may seek to deny it, but in this century (though not before) it is not possible to be considered truly great without making an impact in Europe - no one is more aware of this than the players.

Neymar's agent Wagner Ribeiro says that the player will likely be sold in two or three years, which seems a realistic timescale.

Santos president Luis Alvaro Ribeiro is in danger of giving the fans false hopes if he tells them that Neymar will stay to the end of his new five-year contract.

One of the most important figures in Brazilian football would surely agree.

"We never surprise our supporters," is the view of Fernando Carvalho, director of
Internacional, crowned as champions of the Libertadores last Wednesday.

"The worst thing is when you say you're not going to sell your star player and then you do. From the start we make it clear that we'll be selling."

Carvalho is the key figure in the transformation of the club from relegation candidates to kings of the continent, winners of Brazil's last two Libertadores titles and world champions in 2006.

First as president, now as director in charge of football, he has been behind the implementation of a model of administration well adapted to contemporary realities.

Freedom of contract and the pull of the global market make it impossible to hold on to top players - so instead aim to produce them, keep them for two or three years, sell them and use the proceeds to improve the club structure and maintain a competitive squad.

For example, striker Alexandre Pato brought money into the club coffers when he signed for Milan. Midfielder Sandro now does the same joining Tottenham.

Inter's model was strongly influenced by that of Argentina's Boca Juniors, who won the Libertadores four times between 2000 and 2007.

Boca's run of success came to an end when, under new administration, they strayed from their model. After a successful loan spell they re-signed playmaker Juan Roman Riquelme.

This conflicted with their guiding philosophy - that team spirit would inevitably suffer from the presence of a big name earning much more than the others - a problem that Santos may now have to deal with. Boca did not even qualify for the 2010 Libertadores.

It is surely significant, then, that the two most successful clubs this century in the Libertadores have done it while using the same idea.

Models need to develop with the changing times, though, and it is clear that Internacional's version has suffered a tweak.

Four years ago Carvalho told me that "there are three types of player we are interested in; Brazilians returning from Europe, perhaps because their move did not work out; reasonable players in domestic football who are not stars buy who can fulfil their potential when placed in the right context; and home-produced players."

For the 2010 version he can add another category - players from elsewhere in South America.

At the heart of the midfield, the current team's strongest area, are two excellent Argentines, Pablo Guinazu and Andres D'Alessandro.There are Argentine and Uruguayan internationals on the subs bench. Meanwhile, there are no high profile Brazilians in Argentina.

This is a consequence of the fact that Brazilian clubs can pay far higher wages than elsewhere on the continent.

The Brazilian currency has gained massively in strength. The good economic moment brings another Brazilian strength into play - the sheer size of the country.

Only a tiny proportion of them come through the turnstiles, but the big Brazilian clubs count their supporters in the millions, making them attractive to sponsors who want to reach this mass market.

These developments, coupled with the increased professionalism of the clubs' marketing operations, explain how Santos have been able to hold on to Neymar - for now.

The balance is shifting but it is not a revolutionary moment.

The big name stars will still go to Europe although they might initially stay in Brazil for longer which is surely a positive thing.

Sooner or later Neymar will be looking to shine in the Champions League in Europe. But everybody wins from the fact that first he has a chance to make his mark on the Copa Libertadores.

Comments on the piece in the space below. Questions on South American football to [email protected], and I'll pick out a couple for next week.

From last week's postbag:


Q) Who do you think has been the best player
in this year's Copa Libertadores?
I have been impressed with the deft touches of Andres D'Alessandro I will pick him as my best player, he seems to have found his form again. I enjoyed the way he caressed the ball with Portsmouth (on loan).

Do you think he will go back to Europe?
Azubike Finecountry

A)Just recalled to the Argentina squad. He is 29 now, so maybe a bit old for another crack at Europe - he's being linked with a move to the Arab world.

He had a good tournament, though he is still nowhere near fulfilling the hopes I had of him. He did not score in the campaign - which highlights the fact that, though he dictates the rhythm well, he is nowhere near as decisive in the final 30m as he once promised to be.

But my player of the tournament has to be Giuliano. A fantastic little midfield talent, only 20-years-old, who keeps getting better and better.

He spent most of the knockout rounds on the bench, only to come on and keep scoring vital goals. His goal on Wednesday was a jewel of technique and daring - and he's not even primarily a goalscorer.


Q) I am a Man United fan, and one thing about the club surprises me - the continuity of its manager - the great Sir Alex...which leads to my question...are there instances of one man reigning a club in South America?
Ram Mamidanna

A)One which springs to mind is Noel Sanvicente at Caracas in Venezuela, who was in charge for eight years until he stood down a few months ago.

Such longevity is very rare here. Two years is usually seen as a marathon spell. A lot of this has to do with the endless selling. Results inevitably suffer when you are continually saying goodbye to your best players - and then 'sack the coach' is the first cry that goes up.



More...
 
Wow. There's detailed OP's, and them there's that...
 
Eww who added a Vickery bot? Lee?

I feel that he has just stated the obvious here? Going by past experience, Brazilians don't really cut it in the UK, Most likely due to the physical nature of the game

exceptions are there of course.

To sum it up, **** article.
 
fair play to the lad, apparently he had some people saying just go take the money and some people saying no your not ready yet. at the moment he is quite lightweight but this season he is going to be playing in the copa libertadores(sp)(the south american champions league) and many believe this will strenghen the lad up. The Brazilian currency is ment to be a little bit better than it was so Santos would have been able to offer him quite abit on a 5year deal and lets be honest he is not going to stay at Santos for the full 5 years 2-3 max. If he does stay at Santos for the full contract then you would have to presume he hasen'e fullfilled his potential.
 
my god am i glad we never went through with this deal at the moment the boy has become hugely spoilt. Because Santos had to offer him a massive deal to stop him joining Chelsea they have become his play thing. During a recent game Santos got a penalty and Neymar is usally on penalty duty but he had missed 3 in the last month, so manager Dorival Junior who apparently is one of best up and coming Brazilian managers said he didnt want Neymar to take the penalty and gave it to someone else (cant remember who) who scored the penalty. Neymar was angry about this and even though his team scored the penalty he was swearing at his manager and teamates, he was really disrespectefull. Of corse the manager said this kind of thing can't happen so he banned Neymar for 14 days. But the Santos board saw a huge problem in the near future they had a huge game with rivals Corinthians, they thought they can't go into a game like this without their biggest player so what did they do??? Thats right they sacked the coach, Neymar played and they lost 3-2. So basicly they sacrificed their possible long term future for the short term and lost. What kind of message does this send out to Neymar that he is now bigger than the club, imagine if he pulled this sort of stunt at Chelsea, now we can see why Robinho didn't settle at City. This i believe could potentialy ruin a players possible European future.
 
my god am i glad we never went through with this deal at the moment the boy has become hugely spoilt. Because Santos had to offer him a massive deal to stop him joining Chelsea they have become his play thing

Wait, you support Chelsea and saying another clubs players are hugely spoilt?

I seem to remember JT using the City bids to improve his contract at Chelsea, no different to what Neymar has done at Santos.
 
Wait, you support Chelsea and saying another clubs players are hugely spoilt?

I seem to remember JT using the City bids to improve his contract at Chelsea, no different to what Neymar has done at Santos.

Did you even read it properly?

Neymar got into a massive strop, swearing at his manager and teammates which resulted in the Santos board choosing to sack the manager instead of backing the managers decision to ban him. That's extremely harsh on the manager and the player should be ashamed of himself.
 
my god am i glad we never went through with this deal at the moment the boy has become hugely spoilt- *annnnd snip*

Oh get over yourself. You know, and I know, and everyone knows that you wouldn't be saying this if he were a Chelsea player right now. All Brazilians are like this to an extent - they're mollycoddled by their clubs, and it's often culture shock and the lack of these familiarities that does for Brazilians in Europe. Jo, for instance, went on holiday when he wasn't meant to. In Brazil this is worth no more than a light reprimand, whereas here it is near unthinkable.

Neymar's a huge talent, and any club would love to have him on their books. If Chelsea don't want him, fine, someone like United will have him and they'll develop him into a truly world-class player.
 
Did you even read it properly?

Neymar got into a massive strop, swearing at his manager and teammates which resulted in the Santos board choosing to sack the manager instead of backing the managers decision to ban him. That's extremely harsh on the manager and the player should be ashamed of himself.

Not really, I only quoted one part of CJACKO's text and as for players undermining Managers,

Ballack, Cech and Terry having a meeting with Roman about Luiz Felipe Scolari comes to mind so Neymar's ego would probably fit in with the rest of the Chelsea players tbh.
 
Not really, I only quoted one part of CJACKO's text and as for players undermining Managers,

Ballack, Cech and Terry having a meeting with Roman about Luiz Felipe Scolari comes to mind so Neymar's ego would probably fit in with the rest of the Chelsea players tbh.

Yes but was that the point in his post? Neymar was branded spolit because he got the manager sacked, not because he asked for a pay rise after rejecting Chelsea, that wasn't even the main point.

Also, just because you don't like what someone says, it doesn't mean you always have to turn it around and attack that persons club. It's pathetic.
 
Oh get over yourself. You know, and I know, and everyone knows that you wouldn't be saying this if he were a Chelsea player right now. All Brazilians are like this to an extent - they're mollycoddled by their clubs, and it's often culture shock and the lack of these familiarities that does for Brazilians in Europe. Jo, for instance, went on holiday when he wasn't meant to. In Brazil this is worth no more than a light reprimand, whereas here it is near unthinkable.

Neymar's a huge talent, and any club would love to have him on their books. If Chelsea don't want him, fine, someone like United will have him and they'll develop him into a truly world-class player.

thats the point we seemed to have dodged a bullet here, how is he ever going to learn if Santos are doing this for him???
 
thats the point we seemed to have dodged a bullet here, how is he ever going to learn if Santos are doing this for him???

You haven't dodged a bullet at all. It might just be me, but from where I'm standing it looks like you were snubbed by a hugely talented player and are now trying to make it seem that he's not as good a player as first thought.

My point was that all Brazilian players do this, and many of them have turned out alright in the end, so I honestly don't see the drama with it.
 
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You haven't dodged a bullet at all. It might just be me, but from where I'm standing it looks like you were snubbed by a hugely talented player and are now trying to make it seem that he's not as good a player as first thought.

Where did i say he isen't a good player??? he is a sensational talent but if the club is making him feel like he is the most important person at Santos he will not cope in Europe and that is a fact.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYqw3c3fFQ"]YouTube - Neymar xinga Dorival[/ame]

its in portuguese but, basicaly, he was an idiot, and because of this the manager was fired, he already thinks he is a great superstar ..
 
Yes but was that the point in his post? Neymar was branded spolit because he got the manager sacked, not because he asked for a pay rise after rejecting Chelsea, that wasn't even the main point.

Also, just because you don't like what someone says, it doesn't mean you always have to turn it around and attack that persons club. It's pathetic.

So he isn't spoilt for using Chelsea interest as an opportunity to improve his contract?

Hardly a personal attack on Chelsea when the article in first the place is about Neymar rejected Chelsea. From what I've heard about Neymar now, I think he would fit in well at Chelsea now.
 
Where did i say he isen't a good player??? he is a sensational talent but if the club is making him feel like he is the most important person at Santos he will not cope in Europe and that is a fact.

And where did I say that you said that?

You're wrong. You really are. Every talented Brazilian is treated like that at their club. Pato, Kaka, Ronaldinho, and especially Pele. Many are successful, and I'll grant you some aren't, but you're just plain wrong I'm afraid.
 
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