One-touch football - narrow or wide? And an answer to the age-old question of tempo.

[Yurt]

It's always been a hotly contested topic in FM tactical terms whether the tempo affects solely the pace with which your players pass the ball to one another, or if it has an impact on both passing-speed and build-up play (as in, how much of a focus your team places on 'attacking' or 'forward' passes). There is still no confirmed answer to this mystery from FM authority, with the exception of one SI staff member claiming on their forums that, as far as he understands it, tempo can be best explained by the former of the two above explanations; tempo's clear and primary function is to dictate how quickly players release the ball from their feet upon having received it, not necessarily making a difference to which direction that pass is in. After having watched some game-time in full, I also concur that this is indeed the case. Of course, I know more of Wayne Rooney's favourite underwear than I do of the game's code, but through good old-fashion Aristotelian observation I can quite confidently say that your team's tempo refers exclusively to how much or little time they are encouraged to take whilst on the ball before sending it on it's way, in whichever direction that may be.

Now that we've cleared that up, it's on to the question part of my post. Assuming what has been said above is correct, it would follow that if one intended to create a tactic based around quick, one-touch passing - retaining possession but maintaining a high enough intensity to break the opposition down and also allow for a pleasing aesthetic look - one would use the obvious team instructions to achieve this: retain possession, pass it shorter, work ball in to box, higher tempo, etc. But when it comes to width, however, I find the situation a good deal harder to judge. Is a short passing, high tempo game better suited to playing wider, or playing narrower? Does it make more sense to have players closer together, ready to receive the short pass, or further apart, allowing for more space in which to roam to provide more fluid passing outlets? The intention is not to either remove or exclusively rely on wide play, but to spread the pitch when necessary, whilst retaining the optimum pass completion ratio. My first thought was that, with a quick tempo, narrow would be the best choice; meaning players have more options to pass to in their immediate vicinity and can gradually work the ball to the wings when required. It seems as if slow tempo, on the other hand, is most suited to playing wide, as players take more time with the ball at their feet, affording their prospective pass-recipient team mate a longer period in which to move about in and take advantage of the wider, spacier field. When I say it aloud (i.e. write it here) it seems like a perfectly coherent and rational argument, but when I watch a match in full detail it becomes less clear as to whether or not I'm talking bollocks. The truth is, I can't really tell from playing the game whether my one-touch, possession based tactic is best suited to using the play wider or play narrower instruction.

If anyone has a definitive answer to this, or can help me find one in any way, I'd be very grateful.

 

[wattinho]

Impessed that you took the time and effort to really study your tactics by watching the matches in real time....I thought I was the only one to do this! Personally having been playing the game since the old Amiga days I'd like to think ive got a decent enough handle on tactics, but this year has been the most difficult yet due to the death of sliders....in answer to your question I dont think you can say if you play a wide formation then you automatically have to play a fast/slow tempo, it really depends on the players you have at your disposal. Does tempo make a massive difference? Most of the tactics posted on here follow the same route- work ball into box,shorter passing, run at defence, highish defensive line, be more expressive etc.....the only thing that really changes is tempo.Some claim slow is the way forward, others swear by the short sharp and quick tempo . Personally I leave tempo at default, this allows me to monitor the opening stages of the game and make any changes if I need to from there. Doesn't always work but I guess thats why we're all addicted to FM- the search for perfection!

 

[bluesjunior]

I have been playing this game a long time and still learning as it goes. In my opinion Width,Tempo + DL should be set on a match basis. I see Play Wider as an Attacking instruction while I see Play Narrower as a Defensive instruction. In my present save with Liverpool still in season 1 and with the original squad plus the German Kevin Volland I am top of the PL after 11 matches and playing the best attacking football I have ever managed. I prefer a very slow tempo as it conserves my teams match fitness so I score lots in the final 10-15mins when the oppo playing a fast tempo are tired out. I prefer a very High DL and Use the Offside Trap. What I have noticed is that I have very high possession stats. I beat Arsenal 3-2 at Anfield in my fourth PL match and possession was 62%-38% to me. I know I am on the right track with a possession stat like that against Arsenal while Suarez is still on a ban and Sturridge injured. Volland scored a hat trick as F9.

 

[andrichbrand]

I use this website, to get my ideas when creating tactics: Tactical Styles | Football Manager 2014 Guide

 

[Bomber1]

for the tempo, i think there is no "must follow" rule, depends on who you are facing, for example i'm Liverpool against C.Palace at Anfield, i expect C.Palace 99% to wait narrow and deep for me, if i play Low tempo there are no risks while in possession because they are not going to press me and my players have the time to pick the right pass. If i face Man.Utd. away i must take in consideration that they want to press me and 99% they are not going to wait behind for me, in this match i want my team to play High tempo. i don't see relations between tempo and wider/narrower shape, it all depends on the opponent

 

[Yurt]

Thanks a lot for the responses, everyone.

Impessed that you took the time and effort to really study your tactics by watching the matches in real time....I thought I was the only one to do this! Personally having been playing the game since the old Amiga days I'd like to think ive got a decent enough handle on tactics, but this year has been the most difficult yet due to the death of sliders....in answer to your question I dont think you can say if you play a wide formation then you automatically have to play a fast/slow tempo, it really depends on the players you have at your disposal. Does tempo make a massive difference? Most of the tactics posted on here follow the same route- work ball into box,shorter passing, run at defence, highish defensive line, be more expressive etc.....the only thing that really changes is tempo.Some claim slow is the way forward, others swear by the short sharp and quick tempo . Personally I leave tempo at default, this allows me to monitor the opening stages of the game and make any changes if I need to from there. Doesn't always work but I guess thats why we're all addicted to FM- the search for perfection!

I have been playing this game a long time and still learning as it goes. In my opinion Width,Tempo + DL should be set on a match basis. I see Play Wider as an Attacking instruction while I see Play Narrower as a Defensive instruction. In my present save with Liverpool still in season 1 and with the original squad plus the German Kevin Volland I am top of the PL after 11 matches and playing the best attacking football I have ever managed. I prefer a very slow tempo as it conserves my teams match fitness so I score lots in the final 10-15mins when the oppo playing a fast tempo are tired out. I prefer a very High DL and Use the Offside Trap. What I have noticed is that I have very high possession stats. I beat Arsenal 3-2 at Anfield in my fourth PL match and possession was 62%-38% to me. I know I am on the right track with a possession stat like that against Arsenal while Suarez is still on a ban and Sturridge injured. Volland scored a hat trick as F9.

Firstly, I couldn't agree more with both of you: width,tempo etc. are best altered on a match by match basis (and yes, wattinho, I certainly think the search for perfection is the reason behind FM's addictiveness!). However, and I wouldn't normally condone this, this time I want to take the dogmatic approach to my tactic (I like to 'role play' a little bit from save to save!) and set out for each game the same. Of course, the match scenario will inevitably dictate me into making changes, but I at least want to have maximum continuity in the way my team approaches games. In this case, I want to aim to win the possession battle each match whilst making as many one-touch passes as possible (and of course win!), purely for aesthetic appeal. I guess I will just keep on playin' until I work out the non-existent 'magic formula'! Thanks guys!

I use this website, to get my ideas when creating tactics: Tactical Styles | Football Manager 2014 Guide

Yes, that website is probably the archetypal FM guide (the clues in the name!). I've used it often before, but never come across that page, strangely enough. Looks like it could be a big help, thanks!

 

[bredbin]

My narrow diamond plays with 'Much Lower Tempo' but the passing is quick and one touch with conference players. A bit strange but they just seem to take there time when playing out from the back then speed up when nearer the opposition goal. Working rather well in general.

 

[Yurt]

My narrow diamond plays with 'Much Lower Tempo' but the passing is quick and one touch with conference players. A bit strange but they just seem to take there time when playing out from the back then speed up when nearer the opposition goal. Working rather well in general.

Interesting food for thought, thanks.

 

[Igneos79]

You got things right. Higher tempo means they will take less touches of the ball. But, for that to work, player needs to have high decisions or they will pass to opponent. Wide or narrow has nothing to do with this. Playing wide means you will try to stretch the defense, and allows for easier goal scoring, whilst playing narrow should be used if you are playing to the target man, or another player with great strenght and aerial ability. Playing narrow will make your players play closer to opponents, so with a more agressive strategy and more aggressive tackling, it can lead to wining the ball back fast when lost, or in other words, make high pressing more efficient.

 

[germainelol]

I think the wide/narrow instruction depends on your formation and opponent like everyone's already said, I sometimes leave it as blank (same with the tempo) and just see how the match pans out, sometimes your team just don't pass well despite having a team of great passers running around so it varies. I guess that's what makes FM more realistic sometimes, there's no plug and play tactics that are guaranteed to work every time it seems in FM 14, you have to think and micro manage certain areas of your tactic much like in real life.

I'm not sure what you think but I've had some success with "pass into space" and "Be more disciplined" both ticked, I found with pass into space I got the through balls I want my players to do to pass their way into the opposition's goal but they were way too risky with their passes even with the "fewer risky passes" player instruction.

 

[Lok1to]

Imo "Tempo" isnt only passing related, or it shouldnt be but as you know we play this game with the roles decided by the SI programmers, and sometimes we find huge and disastrous mistakes like the Trequartista, where you have the instructions, "roam from position" and the "hold position" already active by default, this is lame and makes you think why sometimes tactics dont seem to work as they should.
For that kind of play you want, i think a mixed "pass into space", "play out of defense", "higher tempo" and perhaps "roam for positions" should work, of course with individual instructions that needed to be tested.

 

[germainelol]

Has anyone found a way to put "Pass into space" as a player instruction somehow? As a team instruction everyone seems way too risky with their passing, but without it sometimes players are just passing with no goal and no vertical movement, in a 4-3-3 my front 3 are always making runs but are only passed to if they are in space, with pass into space I can pick their runs....but way too often the pass is way too risky.

Anyway..."More direct passes" simply makes them pass vertically rather than horizontally, but it still passes to their feet with no through balls being played really.

 

[Lok1to]

Has anyone found a way to put "Pass into space" as a player instruction somehow? As a team instruction everyone seems way too risky with their passing, but without it sometimes players are just passing with no goal and no vertical movement, in a 4-3-3 my front 3 are always making runs but are only passed to if they are in space, with pass into space I can pick their runs....but way too often the pass is way too risky.

Anyway..."More direct passes" simply makes them pass vertically rather than horizontally, but it still passes to their feet with no through balls being played really.

Have you tried short passing with more risky passes ?

 

[germainelol]

Have you tried short passing with more risky passes ?

I'll try this now, I've got a 4-3-3 strikerless formation, the striker is a Trequartista so I can't tick it, and the playmaker behind him is AP attack so can't tick it, I'll try it with my 2 wingers and see how it performs!

It's hard to strike a balance between one touch football with endless passing and one touch football which actually penetrates the defences with through balls

 

[bluesjunior]

I'll try this now, I've got a 4-3-3 strikerless formation, the striker is a Trequartista so I can't tick it, and the playmaker behind him is AP attack so can't tick it, I'll try it with my 2 wingers and see how it performs!

It's hard to strike a balance between one touch football with endless passing and one touch football which actually penetrates the defences with through balls

I am playing a Counter Attacking Slow tempo, very high DL 4-1-2-2-1 tactic with Liverpool and have them playing a very high possession game with a lot of attack by having my WB/FB's on Attack, my W/IF's on Attack, with my CB's and DM on Defend and my MC's and F9 on Support. I also use the team settings Look For Overlap and Allow Wide Players to Swap and tell the Wingers to get further forward and the MC's to Run Wide. All three attackers should have the player instruction pass direct and hold up the ball. In my opinion I have found the F9 much more effective than a Trequartista.

 

[Lok1to]

I'll try this now, I've got a 4-3-3 strikerless formation, the striker is a Trequartista so I can't tick it, and the playmaker behind him is AP attack so can't tick it, I'll try it with my 2 wingers and see how it performs!

It's hard to strike a balance between one touch football with endless passing and one touch football which actually penetrates the defences with through balls

As i said the Trequartista role has a contradiction, with the instructions "roam from position" and the "hold position" already active by default. Do you have good exhibitions by your Trequartista ?

 

[miguelalves]

As i said the Trequartista role has a contradiction, with the instructions "roam from position" and the "hold position" already active by default. Do you have good exhibitions by your Trequartista ?

That was one of the things I reported at the SI forum (before being ban), they say it's just a matter of bad labeling... they say

 

[Lok1to]

That was one of the things I reported at the SI forum (before being ban), they say it's just a matter of bad labeling... they say

Humm, SI are playing with fire, ive been banned 2 or 3 times too, just stopped trying, theres no point and they always talk to you with arrogance. They dont have a true rival in this kind of game, if they had things would be very different imo.
We are obligated to play with roles that have default instructions by the SI and in the Trequartista there is a major flaw with this contradiction.
I was a defender of sliders, but when i saw the new concept i gave it a chance, it is innovator, but they should have introduced it more softly, not with this kind of errors that can ruin a tactic.

Cumprimentos

 

[miguelalves]

Humm, SI are playing with fire, ive been banned 2 or 3 times too, just stopped trying, theres no point and they always talk to you with arrogance. They dont have a true rival in this kind of game, if they had things would be very different imo.
We are obligated to play with roles that have default instructions by the SI and in the Trequartista there is a major flaw with this contradiction.
I was a defender of sliders, but when i saw the new concept i gave it a chance, it is innovator, but they should have introduced it more softly, not with this kind of errors that can ruin a tactic.

Cumprimentos

Well, right now for me it's no use even register at their forum because I receive an automatic ban within 5 minutes for alias .
I'm looking at this as a first experience that hasn't work that well but it will improve with next edition. There's a lot of stuff that just don't make sense or just make sense in the heads of people who doesn't have a clue about football when it comes to TI and PI. Even though I enjoyed the sliders, I was opened to the idea that it was without logic telling a player "do 10% more of what you do" which is an argument frequently used by RTHerringbone and this is the one and the only one thing I agree with this guy. But as it was without logic telling that to a player, it's also without logic not being able to tell a player "I need you to be more expressive / disciplined than your team mates", and this is just one example of many. The relationship between TI and PI is a mess, for instance what's the logic of setting a Pass Shorter TI and then have a PI shorter passing available ??? It's already set for short, the PI should be unavailable with a label saying "already active" and the PI more direct passing available.

We would need a very long thread for these things, so I'm going to stop with the off-topic yeah, cumprimentos

As for the topic, I guess things must have some logic: if playing more narrow, an higher tempo can be used; if playing more wide, lower tempo. But this should be balanced taking consideration for the opponents: if opponent players have good tackling attributes, it's riskier having our players holding up the ball, it would lead to loosing possession.

 

[Lok1to]

Well, right now for me it's no use even register at their forum because I receive an automatic ban within 5 minutes for alias .
I'm looking at this as a first experience that hasn't work that well but it will improve with next edition. There's a lot of stuff that just don't make sense or just make sense in the heads of people who doesn't have a clue about football when it comes to TI and PI. Even though I enjoyed the sliders, I was opened to the idea that it was without logic telling a player "do 10% more of what you do" which is an argument frequently used by RTHerringbone and this is the one and the only one thing I agree with this guy. But as it was without logic telling that to a player, it's also without logic not being able to tell a player "I need you to be more expressive / disciplined than your team mates", and this is just one example of many. The relationship between TI and PI is a mess, for instance what's the logic of setting a Pass Shorter TI and then have a PI shorter passing available ??? It's already set for short, the PI should be unavailable with a label saying "already active" and the PI more direct passing available.
.

Completely agree with you, not all is bad, there are some things that i find brilliant, the individual roles new function is very good, and it can make you extract the most of a player, playing in is best role, of course in some cases, with players of extra quality imo, as it can unbalance all your strategy.
I sometimes, in the beginning understood SI argument, lots of people want to use instructions that simply dont make sense, playing with Attacking mentality and much higher defense, complaining about ball in the defenders back ( i believe the Attacking mentality already pushes up defense) and wanting to play in counter and having possession, for example, makes no sense, but after seeing and creating tactics with no sense things, or things that in logical football are strange and that actually worked ive been inclined to criticize again SI.

About the topic, i agree with that, sometimes playing lower tempo against the wrong teams can be disastrous or vice versa !