Possession football

[MANUMAD]

Yeah are you seeing the point here ? When people just don´t know what they are talking about, nonsense happens.
I don´t think he knows what the Counter Pressing is or even possession footbal, and if he read what i wrote, he should see that using Counter Pressing to play possession based football just makes absolutely no sense, because the Counter Pressing was created only to fight the possession football.

Whoa there "mate"!

1. You would wish in your wildest dreams to have the success Ive had with EVERY version of FM since Ive started playing 5 years ago.
2. Whether I know what Im talking about is not for you or even myself to say. Ask all the people Ive been helping in this forum for some years now.
3. SmoothJitsu gets it obviously.
4. Ive tried to get "pure" possession based tactics to work in FM (15) and was relatively successful. But as soon as I "lost" control mentality and introduced (aggressive) pressing elements and very fluid philosophy the same tactics became almost spotless.

 

[miguelalves]

I see what you are saying but you re not reading what I am saying. If you play possession football only with nice control mentality you ll leave yourself open to all sorts of dangers. Thats way, in FM at least, possession always must be coupled with counterpressing (which is why I said to use the specific TIs).

The higher tempo is a must have in possession, but it also depends on the mentality: more aggressive mentalities like attack or overload automatically set a high tempo, so it would be a TI to get rid from.

The Run at the Defense is also one that I would not use: think Barcelona, think possession and one thing that it's not there is players looking for dribbling. Finally, the aggressive mentality also goes against the possession concept because the team needs to move the ball around where there's space, not doing it crowding space in the opposition's area where your team would easily loose possession (precisely due to the lack of space).

 

[miguelalves]

Speaking of Guardiola's Barca, there's a guide on community.sigames.com that replicated that team - and it uses pass into space. The reason for this is that while the aim is to play possession football, Barca are also quick on the counter when the opportunity is presented. Using pass into space and playing possession football are not mutually exclusive.

Then again, it also employs the counter mentality, not control or attacking as people might think.

Link: The Barcelona Style: My Interpretation

That's my thought, either Counter or Balanced, this one because it's neither defensive or attacking: it's both.

 

[Lok1to]

Whoa there "mate"!

1. You would wish in your wildest dreams to have the success Ive had with EVERY version of FM since Ive started playing 5 years ago.

Congratulations you arer the supreme player.Im seeing since your first post that you think that your always right. No one is always right. What sucess did you have mate and what does that have to do with the matter we all are talking about ? Do you know what sucess i had since i started playing this game when it still was CM 96/97 !! You don´t need to be a show-off, mostly when what your saying makes no sense. Read a bit more about GEGENPRESSING, and you will see that is exactly opposite of POSSESSION.

2. Whether I know what Im talking about is not for you or even myself to say. Ask all the people Ive been helping in this forum for some years now.

Congratulations with all the help u gave, this is a forum so the idea is helping each other, but i know a little about football, and what your saying about GEGENPRESSING is illogical. In other things that you said, i don´t go along with all, but i admit that is a matter of perspective and interpretation.

3. SmoothJitsu gets it obviously.

Yeah of course he gets it, he is playing in COUNTER, so he is doing things right. GEGENPRESSING is DIRECT COUNTER PRESSING, a extreme form of pressing. What part of COUNTER DIRECT PRESSING didn´t you understand ?

4. Ive tried to get "pure" possession based tactics to work in FM (15) and was relatively successful. But as soon as I "lost" control mentality and introduced (aggressive) pressing elements and very fluid philosophy the same tactics became almost spotless.

That is one point that you could be right and i agree with you. Im using CONTROL, and sometimes the team lacks agressiveness and objectivenesss, so im trying Attack mixes with Control. This kind of play in FM2015, is working well for me, playing with this system in a lower team that got me 2 promotions in a row and in the end of the season it always gave me an average possession of +60%.
Now in the First Division, im fighting more and need to adapt to play against better quality player. High tempo and changing Control to Attack, most of the times work for me, mixed with much higher pressing. Another thing that i realized, even since 2014 is that pressing much higher in the pitch works better with strong teams. Peace man, GG´s !

 

[MANUMAD]

1. Im not always right. Im not the supreme player. Far from it. But claiming that "When people just don´t know what they are talking about, nonsense happens", about me is just silly.
2. I know what gegenpressing is! Are you refusing to read what Im saying on purpose? I know that its designed to combat possession football and to be fast. Ive said so from the very start ffs.
3. But this is FM we are talking about which, try as it might, is not real football. And in FM if you set up "pure" possession tactics it doesnt work as well as it does when you introduce gegenthingy ideas/aims as per the screenshot I posted together with very fluid tactic and on attack or even overload.I dont care how SmoothJitsu plays, I just went by what he said in the particular post and in the particular post he "gets" it. Which you refuse to btw. Plus you refuse to see that we (you and me) really agree about the basics and about the general idea.
4. Im glad you see that I "may" be right about point 4 as that is the whole gist of what Im trying to say.

Only reason Ive continued this particular discussion with you is that I think it serves as food for thought for people out there seeking ideas about how to utilise possession footy.

Peace to you too! (whats GG's btw?)

 

[shaggy31]

I must be doing this possession play completely wrong im getting sacked all the time, can't score and can't keep clean sheets

 

[Lok1to]

1. Im not always right. Im not the supreme player. Far from it. But claiming that "When people just don´t know what they are talking about, nonsense happens", about me is just silly.
2. I know what gegenpressing is! Are you refusing to read what Im saying on purpose? I know that its designed to combat possession football and to be fast. Ive said so from the very start ffs.
3. But this is FM we are talking about which, try as it might, is not real football. And in FM if you set up "pure" possession tactics it doesnt work as well as it does when you introduce gegenthingy ideas/aims as per the screenshot I posted together with very fluid tactic and on attack or even overload.I dont care how SmoothJitsu plays, I just went by what he said in the particular post and in the particular post he "gets" it. Which you refuse to btw. Plus you refuse to see that we (you and me) really agree about the basics and about the general idea.
4. Im glad you see that I "may" be right about point 4 as that is the whole gist of what Im trying to say.

Only reason Ive continued this particular discussion with you is that I think it serves as food for thought for people out there seeking ideas about how to utilise possession footy.

Peace to you too! (whats GG's btw?)

Hmm, but when you use the overload don´t u lose high % of possession ?
I was confused by the term you used, the COUNTER PRESSING, as it is similar to the HIGH PRESSING from Barcelona or Bayern, with the 6 seconds rule. The only difference between them is when u get the ball, the GEGENPRESSING aka COUNTER DIRECT PRESSING goes to a quick and direct transition, and in the other case, with the 6 secons rule pressing, when the team gets the ball, it goes to a quick counter, but always supported and with short passes, or even with a more patient attack. That and the "run with ball" were the only things that i was not agreeing with you. About the Overload, is a matter of interpretation, but with some contain TI´s and II´s it could work im some way.
For me it was an healthy discussion m8 and i believe that you have knowledge about football, this is the idea, sharing and trying two achieve "perfection". ggs mean good games, sorry about my english !

I must be doing this possession play completely wrong im getting sacked all the time, can't score and can't keep clean sheets

How are you conceding ?

 

[MANUMAD]

About run at defence TI. Ive found that possession football (which I find awfully boring irl btw) if implemented purely in fm results in a lot of lateral passes and play (much like real life) and therefore with it I get my team to be more urgent as it were.

 

[Lok1to]

About run at defence TI. Ive found that possession football (which I find awfully boring irl btw) if implemented purely in fm results in a lot of lateral passes and play (much like real life) and therefore with it I get my team to be more urgent as it were.

Yeah i see the idea, but im a possession fanatic, if i have less than 60% i just can´t get full satisfaction, lol (6). I try to use some player "run with ball" PPM´s to achieve that that and maintain the team focus in possession.

 

[MANUMAD]

Yeah i see the idea, but im a possession fanatic, if i have less than 60% i just can´t get full satisfaction, lol (6). I try to use some player "run with ball" PPM´s to achieve that that and maintain the team focus in possession.

Yes - unfortunately I like to change tactics all the time so ppms dont fit for me ...

 

[suarezzz7]

See in the team instructions, could i still use the play wider instruction along with exploit the middle? Im swansea and I like to use my wide players as alot of my goals come from them

 

[MANUMAD]

See in the team instructions, could i still use the play wider instruction along with exploit the middle? Im swansea and I like to use my wide players as alot of my goals come from them

Of course! Play wider means the team stretches to cover more space laterally. You can have a wide formation AND play through the middle. I do it routinely eg against 4231 (not the deep version) to exploit the gap between their defence and midfield.

But if you like to use your wide players why would you exploit the middle?!!! Exploit the middle means your wide players wont be the focus of attacks much,

 

[miguelalves]

See in the team instructions, could i still use the play wider instruction along with exploit the middle? Im swansea and I like to use my wide players as alot of my goals come from them

what works for you might also (meaning it's just a possibility) work for the AI teams, so choose wisely your players roles and duties because your team will also have more space into flanks for the opposition to explore.

 

[shaggy31]

Hmm, but when you use the overload don´t u lose high % of possession ?
I was confused by the term you used, the COUNTER PRESSING, as it is similar to the HIGH PRESSING from Barcelona or Bayern, with the 6 seconds rule. The only difference between them is when u get the ball, the GEGENPRESSING aka COUNTER DIRECT PRESSING goes to a quick and direct transition, and in the other case, with the 6 secons rule pressing, when the team gets the ball, it goes to a quick counter, but always supported and with short passes, or even with a more patient attack. That and the "run with ball" were the only things that i was not agreeing with you. About the Overload, is a matter of interpretation, but with some contain TI´s and II´s it could work im some way.
For me it was an healthy discussion m8 and i believe that you have knowledge about football, this is the idea, sharing and trying two achieve "perfection". ggs mean good games, sorry about my english !



How are you conceding ?

Every way possible but I've managed to sort out conceding from corners.my team doesn't listen to any of my instructions and whack it long but even when they do pass short they either pass it straight to the opposition or get muscled off it.my team is set up as follows.

sweeper keeper with distribute to defenders
Wing back support both right and left, short passing no risky passes
centre backs both defend short passing no risky passing
dm regista
cm advanced playmaker support
cm box to box support
both wide men are inside forwards
striker I usually just put it to my strikers best role

all short passing with no risky passes.

team instructions are play out of defence, retain possession, take a breather, push higher up, play narrower loer tempo. Theres more instructions for both players andteam but I ccan't think of it off the top of my head.

I play very fluidly with either a standard or control mentality.

I started trying it with cardiff but it was a total disaster so have tried it with better teams like arsenal man utd and Liverpool but same results my players never listen. Cheers for any help in advance.

 

[MANUMAD]

sweeper keeper with distribute to defenders
Wing back support both right and left, short passing no risky passes
centre backs both defend short passing no risky passing
dm regista
cm advanced playmaker support
cm box to box support
both wide men are inside forwards
striker I usually just put it to my strikers best role

all short passing with no risky passes.

team instructions are play out of defence, retain possession, take a breather, push higher up, play narrower loer tempo. Theres more instructions for both players andteam but I ccan't think of it off the top of my head.

I play very fluidly with either a standard or control mentality.

I started trying it with cardiff but it was a total disaster so have tried it with better teams like arsenal man utd and Liverpool but same results my players never listen.

1. You have no real defensive player in central midfield.
2. Have GK distribute to full backs
3. Against better teams (or if you re a top team playing another top team) lose play out of defense.
4. Generally avoid "control"

 

[fm20]

1. You have no real defensive player in central midfield.
2. Have GK distribute to full backs
3. Against better teams (or if you re a top team playing another top team) lose play out of defense.
4. Generally avoid "control"

Why avoid control? It's working quite successfully for me as a standard tactic.

 

[Lok1to]

Yeah Control works very well for me too. With the right roles and attacking roles it could be very good !

 

[miguelalves]

Every way possible but I've managed to sort out conceding from corners.my team doesn't listen to any of my instructions and whack it long but even when they do pass short they either pass it straight to the opposition or get muscled off it.my team is set up as follows.

sweeper keeper with distribute to defenders
Wing back support both right and left, short passing no risky passes
centre backs both defend short passing no risky passing
dm regista
cm advanced playmaker support
cm box to box support
both wide men are inside forwards
striker I usually just put it to my strikers best role

all short passing with no risky passes.

team instructions are play out of defence, retain possession, take a breather, push higher up, play narrower loer tempo. Theres more instructions for both players andteam but I ccan't think of it off the top of my head.

I play very fluidly with either a standard or control mentality.

I started trying it with cardiff but it was a total disaster so have tried it with better teams like arsenal man utd and Liverpool but same results my players never listen. Cheers for any help in advance.

Your team listens to your instructions, but since you play very fluid your players try to do more than you ask. Fluid team shapes doesn't mean players won't do as asked, they just do more than what's asked.

 

[Mazzy92]

First, you need Retain Possession, shorter passing, work ball into box, play out of defence, higher defensive line, push much higher up, offisidetrap and tight marking.

A tip:

I would say that "Control" is useless away against better or equal teams. I prefer to use "Counter" away.
In that way my team easier beats good teams away. When leading by 1 or 2 goal depending on match time, you could use Control. "Control" and "Attack" works great at home.

Even tough I use counter away, I still get alot of possession.
At home, when using control, I often get 70+ possession.

Another tip for away games: Use very rigid. Then you will have a much more solid defense.

Hope you can use some of these tips

- Mazzy92.

 

[Mazzy92]

See in the team instructions, could i still use the play wider instruction along with exploit the middle? Im swansea and I like to use my wide players as alot of my goals come from them

Not so good no. Because then the wingers get to far away from the midfielders, and you loose possession.
I would instead go for a narrow playstyle. Then the distance is smaller, and you will have a higher passing rate.
I often have 90+ passing. Mostly over 80+ works well

- Mazzy92.