Possible implementation of Bayern's 4-1-4-1 ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter zyndar
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So where are we atm?

View attachment 179945 View attachment 179943


  • Mentality: Attacking
  • Team shape: Very fluid
  • Tempo: Normal
  • Width: Balanced
  • D-line: Normal (if 2-3-5), highest (if 4-1-4-1)
  • Closing down: Close down more
  • Passing directness: Mixed
  • Other instructions: Prevent short GK distribution, Use tighter marking, Play out of defence, Exploit the flanks, ?Roam from positions?
Where to play Thiago btw? :)
 
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zyndar said:
So where are we atm?

View attachment 1020790 View attachment 1020792
  • Mentality: Attacking
  • Team shape: Very fluid
  • Tempo: Normal
  • Width: Balanced
  • D-line: Normal (if 2-3-5), highest (if 4-1-4-1)
  • Closing down: Close down more
  • Passing directness: Mixed
  • Other instructions: Prevent short GK distribution, Use tighter marking, Play out of defence, Exploit the flanks, ?Roam from positions?
Where to play Thiago btw? :)
Click to expand...

I prefer the 2-3-5 tbh. It looks more like Pep's.

I would play Thiago as a Regista or as an AMa ... more an AMa in my opinion with maybe the option to drop deep for the ball. Don't know whether it's possible with an AMa. Trequartista maybe? or AP? The Regista Role is more suited for Alonso / Vidal imo.

Also, I think it's better to remove the 'Roam from positions' since they're already instructed to do so with the team shape set as Very Fluid.
 
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CobainK said:
I prefer the 2-3-5 tbh. It looks more like Pep's.

I would play Thiago as a Regista or as an AMa ... more an AMa in my opinion with maybe the option to drop deep for the ball. Don't know whether it's possible with an AMa. Trequartista maybe? or AP? The Regista Role is more suited for Alonso / Vidal imo.

Also, I think it's better to remove the 'Roam from positions' since they're already instructed to do so with the team shape set as Very Fluid.
Click to expand...

I undersant what you guys are saying about the problem with the 4-1-4-1 because you want to be more offensive but the problem is that you cant defend well with a 2-3-5 and that's what more concerns Pep. He's a very discipline coach and wants the team to be compact at all time. If you play a 2-3-5 the 5 up will get you counter in FM because the defensive line it's not high enough. The problem it's in the engine and the lack of roles/TI'S/PI'S.
 
rogermendes29 said:
I undersant what you guys are saying about the problem with the 4-1-4-1 because you want to be more offensive but the problem is that you cant defend well with a 2-3-5 and that's what more concerns Pep. He's a very discipline coach and wants the team to be compact at all time. If you play a 2-3-5 the 5 up will get you counter in FM because the defensive line it's not high enough. The problem it's in the engine and the lack of roles/TI'S/PI'S.
Click to expand...

True, I agree with you. It's difficult to set it up in FM. But will give it a shot & will see.
 
CobainK said:
I prefer the 2-3-5 tbh. It looks more like Pep's.

I would play Thiago as a Regista or as an AMa ... more an AMa in my opinion with maybe the option to drop deep for the ball. Don't know whether it's possible with an AMa. Trequartista maybe? or AP? The Regista Role is more suited for Alonso / Vidal imo.

Also, I think it's better to remove the 'Roam from positions' since they're already instructed to do so with the team shape set as Very Fluid.
Click to expand...
Thiago,vidal and alonso rarely play at the same time. I don't even remember one game where they started all together. But thiago doesn't play alone in the defensive midfield like alonso and vidal do, so he has to be a DLP or a RPM( which suits the roam he does).

Searched a little and one game that i saw was the 3-0 in august 2015 against leverkusen where they started together. But in that game Bayern played with 3 defenders with Alonso helping Alaba almost as a 4th defender.
 
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what bayern has been up to lately is more of an 3-2-4-1.
Bayerns-3-2-4-1-und-Leverkusen-ohne-Probleme.png


Since i guess the biggest Problem is to recreate the Wingbacks movement and with only having Lahm playing the inverted wingback role, which is not implemented the way in FM we need it to be.
For the rest i think it really gets close to a shape that one could establish.
 
zyndar said:
Box to box?
Click to expand...

It's what you call in football when a midfielder does something like that but i dont think a box to box with thiago in FM will work. He will not build up as he does and he will just try to pass the ball quickly as possible and randomly appear in the box. We have to think that the most important in the Guardiola idea it's the possession and the pressing so a DLP or RPM it's the way to go i think.
 
Chruemmel said:
what bayern has been up to lately is more of an 3-2-4-1.
Bayerns-3-2-4-1-und-Leverkusen-ohne-Probleme.png


Since i guess the biggest Problem is to recreate the Wingbacks movement and with only having Lahm playing the inverted wingback role, which is not implemented the way in FM we need it to be.
For the rest i think it really gets close to a shape that one could establish.
Click to expand...

But when you implement a 3 defender setup alaba will stay wide and with the other defenders,and it doesn't happen. He will go upfront trough the middle with no problem helping coman(in that case) but narrower when the ball is on the left. You see the opposite when the ball it's on the right.
 
zyndar said:
So where are we atm?

View attachment 1020790 View attachment 1020792

  • Mentality: Attacking
  • Team shape: Very fluid
  • Tempo: Normal
  • Width: Balanced
  • D-line: Normal (if 2-3-5), highest (if 4-1-4-1)
  • Closing down: Close down more
  • Passing directness: Mixed
  • Other instructions: Prevent short GK distribution, Use tighter marking, Play out of defence, Exploit the flanks, ?Roam from positions?
Where to play Thiago btw? :)
Click to expand...

I did a tactic last year that kind of looks like one your ideas:

7ghwMEL.jpg

wrXw69R.jpg
 
So far i reacreated the 3-2-4-1 (which i posted earlier) quite well and I have to options prepared:
This are the Instructions I use for both tatics:

68ed7d794867d30778bbdb37594db7fe.png



5a978d6688819b8de0fea8bef7457371.png

This is with Lahm as IWB the main problem here is that most of the time there are huge gasp on my right midfield while attacking. Sometimes Lahm manage to close them. But the more the ball moves to the left side of the pitch the bigger the gap. Also alot of times Lahm manages to cuddle with Robben witch is really bad.

ba918e8ca022fe654a4197223ed6fe8e.png

This is my 2nd option with Lahm is set to Men Mark the Right Midfielder/ Winger. Him closing gaps in the midfielder works really well. This works quite well if the opponent runs wingers. But wide midfielders often just overrun him.

Defensive:
Both Tactics emulate defending in a 4-1-4-1 quite well, the problems spoken of earlier beside.
Alaba maybe need to be tweaked to support to be more defensive since both Center Backs are shifted more to backup Lahm's play in both tactics.
I have seen one or two nice long range pases from Boateng into the offense, which is quite nice and exactly the same thing he does in IRL.

Build up:
Triangles are created and maintained pretty well.
Thiago here is the engine in this Team. It works ok-ish with Vidal but Thiago just works better.
With exploit the left Flank I managed to create alot of more space for Müller and Robben, which resulted in them being really deadly.

This still need some overall tweaking like Opposition and some Player instructions. But well it's a start.
 
Chruemmel said:
So far i reacreated the 3-2-4-1 (which i posted earlier) quite well and I have to options prepared:
This are the Instructions I use for both tatics:

68ed7d794867d30778bbdb37594db7fe.png



5a978d6688819b8de0fea8bef7457371.png

This is with Lahm as IWB the main problem here is that most of the time there are huge gasp on my right midfield while attacking. Sometimes Lahm manage to close them. But the more the ball moves to the left side of the pitch the bigger the gap. Also alot of times Lahm manages to cuddle with Robben witch is really bad.

ba918e8ca022fe654a4197223ed6fe8e.png

This is my 2nd option with Lahm is set to Men Mark the Right Midfielder/ Winger. Him closing gaps in the midfielder works really well. This works quite well if the opponent runs wingers. But wide midfielders often just overrun him.

Defensive:
Both Tactics emulate defending in a 4-1-4-1 quite well, the problems spoken of earlier beside.
Alaba maybe need to be tweaked to support to be more defensive since both Center Backs are shifted more to backup Lahm's play in both tactics.
I have seen one or two nice long range pases from Boateng into the offense, which is quite nice and exactly the same thing he does in IRL.

Build up:
Triangles are created and maintained pretty well.
Thiago here is the engine in this Team. It works ok-ish with Vidal but Thiago just works better.
With exploit the left Flank I managed to create alot of more space for Müller and Robben, which resulted in them being really deadly.

This still need some overall tweaking like Opposition and some Player instructions. But well it's a start.
Click to expand...

We had the same idea for the tactic... Mine is like a mirror version of yours I put Xabi Alonso on the left side to cover Alaba!! Than in SS i put from the side of the winger...

View attachment 179851
 
Chruemmel said:
So far i reacreated the 3-2-4-1 (which i posted earlier) quite well and I have to options prepared:
This are the Instructions I use for both tatics:


68ed7d794867d30778bbdb37594db7fe.png



5a978d6688819b8de0fea8bef7457371.png

This is with Lahm as IWB the main problem here is that most of the time there are huge gasp on my right midfield while attacking. Sometimes Lahm manage to close them. But the more the ball moves to the left side of the pitch the bigger the gap. Also alot of times Lahm manages to cuddle with Robben witch is really bad.

ba918e8ca022fe654a4197223ed6fe8e.png

This is my 2nd option with Lahm is set to Men Mark the Right Midfielder/ Winger. Him closing gaps in the midfielder works really well. This works quite well if the opponent runs wingers. But wide midfielders often just overrun him.

Defensive:
Both Tactics emulate defending in a 4-1-4-1 quite well, the problems spoken of earlier beside.
Alaba maybe need to be tweaked to support to be more defensive since both Center Backs are shifted more to backup Lahm's play in both tactics.
I have seen one or two nice long range pases from Boateng into the offense, which is quite nice and exactly the same thing he does in IRL.

Build up:
Triangles are created and maintained pretty well.
Thiago here is the engine in this Team. It works ok-ish with Vidal but Thiago just works better.
With exploit the left Flank I managed to create alot of more space for Müller and Robben, which resulted in them being really deadly.

This still need some overall tweaking like Opposition and some Player instructions. But well it's a start.
Click to expand...



any link to tested it?
 
I've tried the idea of 4-1-4-1 posted in #21. It's not working at all :)
 
Last edited:
Chruemmel said:
So far i reacreated the 3-2-4-1 (which i posted earlier) quite well and I have to options prepared:
This are the Instructions I use for both tatics:

68ed7d794867d30778bbdb37594db7fe.png



5a978d6688819b8de0fea8bef7457371.png

This is with Lahm as IWB the main problem here is that most of the time there are huge gasp on my right midfield while attacking. Sometimes Lahm manage to close them. But the more the ball moves to the left side of the pitch the bigger the gap. Also alot of times Lahm manages to cuddle with Robben witch is really bad.

ba918e8ca022fe654a4197223ed6fe8e.png

This is my 2nd option with Lahm is set to Men Mark the Right Midfielder/ Winger. Him closing gaps in the midfielder works really well. This works quite well if the opponent runs wingers. But wide midfielders often just overrun him.

Defensive:
Both Tactics emulate defending in a 4-1-4-1 quite well, the problems spoken of earlier beside.
Alaba maybe need to be tweaked to support to be more defensive since both Center Backs are shifted more to backup Lahm's play in both tactics.
I have seen one or two nice long range pases from Boateng into the offense, which is quite nice and exactly the same thing he does in IRL.

Build up:
Triangles are created and maintained pretty well.
Thiago here is the engine in this Team. It works ok-ish with Vidal but Thiago just works better.
With exploit the left Flank I managed to create alot of more space for Müller and Robben, which resulted in them being really deadly.

This still need some overall tweaking like Opposition and some Player instructions. But well it's a start.
Click to expand...

Don't you have problems defending with both wingers in attack and SS? There must be a lot of space in between the attacking and midfield lines if you don't win the ball early
 
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