Post your frustrations - FM23 edition
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I'll start to say that FM23 is still the same bullshit as in previous years:
MurderOnZidanesFloor
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Ok heres a problem that really irks me.
In the match engine you CONSTANTLY see players make ridiculous mistakes and choose bad options or essentially just totally ignore what you tell them to do.
Some people will say "yes but in real life players will make mistakes and players cant always follow what you ask them to do"
If you say this you are TOTALLY missing the point.
This is a computer game that as a manager i can only influence by tactics that have hard coded instructions and an incredibly small array of things i can say to a player when he does something like this.
In real life id take him to one side and say "you do it like this" or "dont ignore what im saying or ill take you off".... etc etc.
What can i do in FM? NOTHING. Well almost nothing.
So given the involvement YOU have whats the point in picking a tactic if theyll just do their own thing anyway? How much of it is your bad tactic compared to how much of it being them not listening? If you try and change the game and it doesnt work are they just not listening? When they stand there like a statue whilst a striker runs past them is that your fault of theirs?
Its just a bag of **** to be honest. Youre left at the mercy of identifying faults in a match engine to exploit them. Thats just silly.
In the match engine you CONSTANTLY see players make ridiculous mistakes and choose bad options or essentially just totally ignore what you tell them to do.
Some people will say "yes but in real life players will make mistakes and players cant always follow what you ask them to do"
If you say this you are TOTALLY missing the point.
This is a computer game that as a manager i can only influence by tactics that have hard coded instructions and an incredibly small array of things i can say to a player when he does something like this.
In real life id take him to one side and say "you do it like this" or "dont ignore what im saying or ill take you off".... etc etc.
What can i do in FM? NOTHING. Well almost nothing.
So given the involvement YOU have whats the point in picking a tactic if theyll just do their own thing anyway? How much of it is your bad tactic compared to how much of it being them not listening? If you try and change the game and it doesnt work are they just not listening? When they stand there like a statue whilst a striker runs past them is that your fault of theirs?
Its just a bag of **** to be honest. Youre left at the mercy of identifying faults in a match engine to exploit them. Thats just silly.
I'm gunna list all the stuff that makes this game not only the worst FM of all time, but also the worst management SIM I've ever come across.
1. The mistakes. If there is anyone left who thinks the Match Engine doesn't know the difference between AI and Human controlled teams, they are lying fanboys. The evidence that this isn't the case is because the developer said so. The evidence that it does know is simple and clear. every single game without fail, my CBs or FBs or GK will make a mistake that leads to a goal. And this isn't even bad defending, it's blatant unforced errors that make absolutely zero sense. Interestingly this almost never happens to AI teams, just mine. And it's constant and it appears that player stats make no difference. Playing as Brighton, it is impossible that my choice of Centre Backs, Dunk, Webster, Gabriel and Sutalo would make these errors. They all have excellent mental stats alongside the obviously high defending stats.
2. Tactics and systems. I have tried a variety and I'm yet to find a system I can rely on. Alongside this is the fact that game to game, I've no idea if the players will follow my instructions or not. You are left playing a game whereby you are merely trying to find out how to beat the god awful match engine. This is not how a management SIM should behave. The defenders of FM like to remind us "this stuff happens in IRL" whilst interestingly ignoring that almost every team uses a regular tactic and a variety of these work throughout the league. Finding holes in the match engine to exploit is not how this game should work.
3. Shooting and blocking. As a poster earlier in this thread mentioned, there is very little you can control in this game. Most of this game is data, and thus you have to be able to rely on the stats if players. This is not their case. I have Iheanacho up front and he has 17 in finishing and technique, 16 for off the ball and composure, 15 for determination, and yet he misses ALL the time. I've never seen a striker waste so much 12 yards from goal. A lot of the problem is apparently AI teams defenders seem to be able to stretch their limbs in key areas to magically block shots despite being a yard or two behind the ball. The other biggest problem is that attackers dwell on the ball so much in the box, they often struggle to get shots off, despite yards of space. On the other hand, no matter the skill and stats of the opposition, they are all decisive almost every time.
4. XG is broken. I had an XG versus shots of plus nine. That was plus five more than the team second in this data set. But that makes no sense as I watch comprehensive highlights and I see my team waste great chance after great chance. I don't know how it possible to have the top shots on target, most saved shots and the highest XG to shots stats.
5. Shouts don't work, at all. I once encouraged my team who were one nil up after dominating Chelsea. But Chelsea started to turn the game so I encouraged the lads and they all went to angry red face. Even if encouragement did not work, I doubt that a whole XI would react badly, it makes no sense. Demand more is the only shout that does anything whatsoever.
6. Ludicrous signing bonuses. A player I had agreed to sign for 18 million wouldn't accept anything less than a 7.5 million signing bonus. Not even a top player. Signing new contracts is a nightmare and completely drains finances.
7. Stats mean almost nothing. It's covered above somewhat, but no matter the stats, my players will not do what the stats say they should. This is especially frustrating with keepers. Robert Sanchez is a good keeper and yet he barely makes any saves. In the friendly rage quit, he had 2 shots straight at him that he just refused to save, and this happened all last season. It is crazy to me that a keeper with his stays just can't save anything. Even in games where I somehow find a way to stop the AI creating anything, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll have a random shot and my keeper will just watch it go in.
I'm short, this game is an utter disgrace. Si should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
1. The mistakes. If there is anyone left who thinks the Match Engine doesn't know the difference between AI and Human controlled teams, they are lying fanboys. The evidence that this isn't the case is because the developer said so. The evidence that it does know is simple and clear. every single game without fail, my CBs or FBs or GK will make a mistake that leads to a goal. And this isn't even bad defending, it's blatant unforced errors that make absolutely zero sense. Interestingly this almost never happens to AI teams, just mine. And it's constant and it appears that player stats make no difference. Playing as Brighton, it is impossible that my choice of Centre Backs, Dunk, Webster, Gabriel and Sutalo would make these errors. They all have excellent mental stats alongside the obviously high defending stats.
2. Tactics and systems. I have tried a variety and I'm yet to find a system I can rely on. Alongside this is the fact that game to game, I've no idea if the players will follow my instructions or not. You are left playing a game whereby you are merely trying to find out how to beat the god awful match engine. This is not how a management SIM should behave. The defenders of FM like to remind us "this stuff happens in IRL" whilst interestingly ignoring that almost every team uses a regular tactic and a variety of these work throughout the league. Finding holes in the match engine to exploit is not how this game should work.
3. Shooting and blocking. As a poster earlier in this thread mentioned, there is very little you can control in this game. Most of this game is data, and thus you have to be able to rely on the stats if players. This is not their case. I have Iheanacho up front and he has 17 in finishing and technique, 16 for off the ball and composure, 15 for determination, and yet he misses ALL the time. I've never seen a striker waste so much 12 yards from goal. A lot of the problem is apparently AI teams defenders seem to be able to stretch their limbs in key areas to magically block shots despite being a yard or two behind the ball. The other biggest problem is that attackers dwell on the ball so much in the box, they often struggle to get shots off, despite yards of space. On the other hand, no matter the skill and stats of the opposition, they are all decisive almost every time.
4. XG is broken. I had an XG versus shots of plus nine. That was plus five more than the team second in this data set. But that makes no sense as I watch comprehensive highlights and I see my team waste great chance after great chance. I don't know how it possible to have the top shots on target, most saved shots and the highest XG to shots stats.
5. Shouts don't work, at all. I once encouraged my team who were one nil up after dominating Chelsea. But Chelsea started to turn the game so I encouraged the lads and they all went to angry red face. Even if encouragement did not work, I doubt that a whole XI would react badly, it makes no sense. Demand more is the only shout that does anything whatsoever.
6. Ludicrous signing bonuses. A player I had agreed to sign for 18 million wouldn't accept anything less than a 7.5 million signing bonus. Not even a top player. Signing new contracts is a nightmare and completely drains finances.
7. Stats mean almost nothing. It's covered above somewhat, but no matter the stats, my players will not do what the stats say they should. This is especially frustrating with keepers. Robert Sanchez is a good keeper and yet he barely makes any saves. In the friendly rage quit, he had 2 shots straight at him that he just refused to save, and this happened all last season. It is crazy to me that a keeper with his stays just can't save anything. Even in games where I somehow find a way to stop the AI creating anything, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll have a random shot and my keeper will just watch it go in.
I'm short, this game is an utter disgrace. Si should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
MurderOnZidanesFloor
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Everything the above poster says.
The game is the most ludicrous inept attempt at recreating football I think ive ever seen.
Its so ludicrous you can even TELL what will happen ages before it does.
Why does a striker inexplicably take a touch AWAY from goal when he is through? why do goalkeepers carry the ball over the line all the time? why does a direct free kick from "that" position ALWAYS go in? why do so many absolutely ridiculous things happen that dont in real football?
Why is it that the game makes it even CAPABLE for people to pick ridiculous tactics with multiple players all performing exactly the same duty and almost every instruction ticked, some that will totally contradict each other, and then you end up with teams scoring 130 goals in a season with these braindead tactics. Yet try and play the game properly like its football, the game screws you non stop.
Why do you have an assistant manager that talks pure undiluted s**t all game? SAY SOMETHING USEFUL YOU ********.
The game is so bad, its unplayable. Its impossible to apply any logic to, or enjoy.
The game is the most ludicrous inept attempt at recreating football I think ive ever seen.
Its so ludicrous you can even TELL what will happen ages before it does.
Why does a striker inexplicably take a touch AWAY from goal when he is through? why do goalkeepers carry the ball over the line all the time? why does a direct free kick from "that" position ALWAYS go in? why do so many absolutely ridiculous things happen that dont in real football?
Why is it that the game makes it even CAPABLE for people to pick ridiculous tactics with multiple players all performing exactly the same duty and almost every instruction ticked, some that will totally contradict each other, and then you end up with teams scoring 130 goals in a season with these braindead tactics. Yet try and play the game properly like its football, the game screws you non stop.
Why do you have an assistant manager that talks pure undiluted s**t all game? SAY SOMETHING USEFUL YOU ********.
The game is so bad, its unplayable. Its impossible to apply any logic to, or enjoy.
Murderonzidanesfloor (cracking name) reminded me about the free kicks from that angle. The most annoying thing is that the keepers often get to the ball, and yet it still always goes in.
Is saw someone hosting about their tactic using two S.Vs the other day. The fact this exists is bonkers because no one knew what Volante was until FM included it.
I also forgot to mention the run of games where I conceded 12 goals from 13 shots on target in 5 games while failing to convert a single goal from 41 shots on target in those same games. This is so insane it hurts.
I don't understand how they messed it up so badly. The demo actually seemed decent as well. I think maybe I was viewing it slightly through rose tinted glasses because I was doing well, but there wasn't any totally unexplainable mistakes and games felt balanced. There wasn't any of the ridiculous XG games whereby you'd dominate every game. The games felt balanced and if you watched comprehensive highlights, as I do, you could see the game shifting.
It feels like there are a bunch of stats going on somewhere that are effecting games but that we just don't get to see. I've had to uninstall because I was getting too mad. I've been playing CM and FM since the 2001, and there has always been an element of learning to beat the match engine. But previously this was understandable as it's a game. In recent years though, since the FM gegenpress "revolution" it's become ludicrous.
There was one other thing to add to my initial post which is player intelligence. I like my teams to move the ball around a bit slower and to keep it short. But time and time again, when there are multiple options on the pitch, a player will just smash it long. Then when it comes to a situation where there aren't options, they'll pass it short to no one to open up a chance (usually a goal). I fail to believe that a game purporting to be a simulation can think that premier League players would be unable to think on their feet a little bit.
If this is what the PL players are like, I dread to think what the lower leagues are like. I also can't believe I'm not seeing more people complain about this. Reddit is the usual fan boy paradise of "it's your tactic" BS, which is expected but annoying, but I thought I'd be seeing more complaints. When you Google "FM23 mistakes" there are almost no results.
Is saw someone hosting about their tactic using two S.Vs the other day. The fact this exists is bonkers because no one knew what Volante was until FM included it.
I also forgot to mention the run of games where I conceded 12 goals from 13 shots on target in 5 games while failing to convert a single goal from 41 shots on target in those same games. This is so insane it hurts.
I don't understand how they messed it up so badly. The demo actually seemed decent as well. I think maybe I was viewing it slightly through rose tinted glasses because I was doing well, but there wasn't any totally unexplainable mistakes and games felt balanced. There wasn't any of the ridiculous XG games whereby you'd dominate every game. The games felt balanced and if you watched comprehensive highlights, as I do, you could see the game shifting.
It feels like there are a bunch of stats going on somewhere that are effecting games but that we just don't get to see. I've had to uninstall because I was getting too mad. I've been playing CM and FM since the 2001, and there has always been an element of learning to beat the match engine. But previously this was understandable as it's a game. In recent years though, since the FM gegenpress "revolution" it's become ludicrous.
There was one other thing to add to my initial post which is player intelligence. I like my teams to move the ball around a bit slower and to keep it short. But time and time again, when there are multiple options on the pitch, a player will just smash it long. Then when it comes to a situation where there aren't options, they'll pass it short to no one to open up a chance (usually a goal). I fail to believe that a game purporting to be a simulation can think that premier League players would be unable to think on their feet a little bit.
If this is what the PL players are like, I dread to think what the lower leagues are like. I also can't believe I'm not seeing more people complain about this. Reddit is the usual fan boy paradise of "it's your tactic" BS, which is expected but annoying, but I thought I'd be seeing more complaints. When you Google "FM23 mistakes" there are almost no results.
The only way you can stop Haaland from scoring.
Mafxfia
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I have to agree with everything mentioned so far,
I think the xg issue is a killer for me.
Resorting to just playing 4222.
And outscore the opponent as the ai always find a goal or 2.
The 0.79xg with 3 goals for them and me having 3.42xg and scoring 2 gets really old if it happens a lot,
I get that you'll have 1/2 games a season where luck is just against you, but it happens all the time.
I think the xg issue is a killer for me.
Resorting to just playing 4222.
And outscore the opponent as the ai always find a goal or 2.
The 0.79xg with 3 goals for them and me having 3.42xg and scoring 2 gets really old if it happens a lot,
I get that you'll have 1/2 games a season where luck is just against you, but it happens all the time.
This game becomes a bigger joke the more it goes on. An already relegated Derby just beat my European chasing team 1-4 with five shots on target, an XG of 1.02 (versus my 18 shots on target and XG of 3.44). They had scored 20 goals in 35 games prior to this. So they managed 20% of the goals they'd ammased in 35 games in one single game.
Now of course this is possible IRL, but this isn't real life. Any emotion is artificially made up by the game. This is a game based on stats. Morale should be based upon form. How on earth is it possible for this result to happen unless the game is scripted? How on earth is it possible without the AI knowing that I'm controlling my team and have decided that today my keeper won't dive. Today my defenders won't bother defending. Today a keeper who has conceded 73 goals in 32 appearances will save nearly everything thrown at him? Today a team who have lost 6 on the bounce without scoring and got relegated in the process will put all that aside to finish all their opportunities? It is insane.
Stats should drive this game, not randomness. If there are hidden stats that can lead to these types of results, SI should tell us and not lie and pretend the game is not scripted. As it stands, I have had a game that form, morale and stats should not throw up. It should be impossible. And yet, here we are. A broken game.
Now of course this is possible IRL, but this isn't real life. Any emotion is artificially made up by the game. This is a game based on stats. Morale should be based upon form. How on earth is it possible for this result to happen unless the game is scripted? How on earth is it possible without the AI knowing that I'm controlling my team and have decided that today my keeper won't dive. Today my defenders won't bother defending. Today a keeper who has conceded 73 goals in 32 appearances will save nearly everything thrown at him? Today a team who have lost 6 on the bounce without scoring and got relegated in the process will put all that aside to finish all their opportunities? It is insane.
Stats should drive this game, not randomness. If there are hidden stats that can lead to these types of results, SI should tell us and not lie and pretend the game is not scripted. As it stands, I have had a game that form, morale and stats should not throw up. It should be impossible. And yet, here we are. A broken game.
It happens way too much. Way too much. That it happens at all means that there is an element of scripting in the game. I don't even think that having scripting is a bad thing, the ME has been rubbish for years where it's too easy to control key areas. Adding an element of scripting keeps things interesting. But the denial of it's existence is infuriating and the way it happens is embarrassing. Making high quality premier league players suddenly look like hungover Sunday league footballers just to fit a scripted narrative is ludicrous. I urge everyone to watch comprehensive highlights and then try and deny the game is not broken.
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Quite simply, players continually forgetting how to play football is not my tactic. It is the game deciding that it is gonna let the opposition score.
I despise the Reddit fan boys defending this game by pompously decrying they know more about football simply because they downloaded a crazy ME breaking tactic off the internet.
So please, so I know I'm not losing my mind, tell me about all the times the game decided your tactic wasn't good enough for an unchallenged defender to miss the ball. Tell me about all the times your striker decided to kick the ball backwards against a defender when clean through on goal. Tell me about the time your full back ignored the short passing instructions until the 88th minute when he decided a short pass to the opposition striker was a good idea. Tell me about the time your keeper with 16 Handling let in four goals that were straight at him or made zero saves in 5 games.
I despise the Reddit fan boys defending this game by pompously decrying they know more about football simply because they downloaded a crazy ME breaking tactic off the internet.
So please, so I know I'm not losing my mind, tell me about all the times the game decided your tactic wasn't good enough for an unchallenged defender to miss the ball. Tell me about all the times your striker decided to kick the ball backwards against a defender when clean through on goal. Tell me about the time your full back ignored the short passing instructions until the 88th minute when he decided a short pass to the opposition striker was a good idea. Tell me about the time your keeper with 16 Handling let in four goals that were straight at him or made zero saves in 5 games.
Mafxfia
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attached are screenshots of a perfect example.
for clarification, I went higher tempo and get stuck in at the 70th minute as i was 2-1 down.
they had 1 shot on goal after that because of the higher-risk playstyle.
If this was just this game, but it's not,
see stats 2, 3, 4, 5
these are 6 matches, stats 6 I won 5-1, and the stats show me overscore by 2, but overall a decent representation
i expect to lose to Feyenoord, but 4-0 with these stats is just awful.
Attachments
A good representation of frustrating results, for sure. But what baffles me more than anything is the way that the goals are conceded. For me it is almost always ridiculous mistakes. Stuff like a CB stopping mid sprint to allow a striker to catch up, or a FB simply giving up chasing a ball for no reason.
People also often defend games where you face one shot and lose or draw. They claim that smash and grabs are part of football. But to anyone who has bothered to check, it is so rare that a team scores with their only shot that it's basically non existent.
I also lost two home games 0-5 on the bounce. Those 10 goals coming from 11 shots. No team has ever lost two home games 0-5 on the bounce in the EPL. In fact, only a handful of teams have conceded five goals at home more than once in a season and this is always relegated teams. This was the first few games post demo, and I sat first at the end of the demo.
I had a game last night where a team scores 1/5th of the goals they'd scored all season against me. I was at home, they were already relegated and their four goals came from five shots. My question is, how are the AI so clinical against me and only me? As I've said before, the only evidence offered that the game doesn't know who controls which team is because SI said so, whereas I can see various games a season where it would appear that the AI's stats, form and morale are ignored when playing against me.
I'd also suggest everyone checks out stats of the other games that take place, accross different leagues. You will not see teams consistently drop points to one shot, one goal type deals. There are other issues for sure, but not the constant misery we seem to face.
I have also been keeping count of the mistakes that AI teams make versus me and it is extremely rare. It does happen, as it should, from time to time. But not to the extent that every game I need to find a way of scoring three goals just to account for the inevitable **** up that will happen each game.
MurderOnZidanesFloor
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Its just a terrible computer game. I dont bother with it anymore. I get much more enjoyment out of doing real life things, playing sports etc.
I dont even know where to start with it.
It just forces you to play "football" through the eyes of Miles Jacobsen and his cronies, and their version of football i can guarantee with certainty is not the view of football shared by 90% of the players or managers.
It is just a terrible, terrible game. Inventing silly arbitray positions on the field that your players might not bother to follow anyway so youve not idea whether it was a good choice putting them there, combined with loads of hidden and scripted stats that override everything you can see as the player, combined with an utterly ridiculous match engine that makes you give up trying to play real football and instead just exploit it, its just an awful, awful game.
Why cant there be a competitor to this game? sports interactive can produce this absolute rubbish as they have a captive audience of fanboys and no competition.
I dont even know where to start with it.
It just forces you to play "football" through the eyes of Miles Jacobsen and his cronies, and their version of football i can guarantee with certainty is not the view of football shared by 90% of the players or managers.
It is just a terrible, terrible game. Inventing silly arbitray positions on the field that your players might not bother to follow anyway so youve not idea whether it was a good choice putting them there, combined with loads of hidden and scripted stats that override everything you can see as the player, combined with an utterly ridiculous match engine that makes you give up trying to play real football and instead just exploit it, its just an awful, awful game.
Why cant there be a competitor to this game? sports interactive can produce this absolute rubbish as they have a captive audience of fanboys and no competition.
I guess because I've been playing for decades, I just want it to be good. But it's just garbage. Seeing as there is so little you can control, the bare minimum is that the players should follow instructions most of the time, but this just isn't the case at all. When you have short passing, fast tempo and yet a CB will stand on the ball for 10 seconds before ignoring your open DM or FB and just launch it long to no one, what can you do? If you set an ultra high line and have everyone on pressing more and set OIs to close down and they still just stand and watch, what can you do? A joke.
I play fm touch 23. It won’t let me change where the set piece taker aims the ball for set pieces. For example I want to create a routine where set piece taker hits ball to back post but there’s no option to place the ball back post
Mafxfia
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what it looks like to me is that it doesnt matter for the AI what is going on.
they get a red card in the 22nd minute.
around 65 minute their squad is exhausted yet are passing the ball around like they're Spain.
with a man less they score 4 goals against my 3, not just that but are dominant in the game and nothing i do changes it.
it feels like they're not playing with 10 men or tired.
that is what kills me, things that are effecting my team playing just dont seem to apply to the AI team
MurderOnZidanesFloor
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If it truly was "your tactic" that was making people fail, by the same token the people who overachieve with absolutely **** tactics that couldnt win a real game shouldnt overachieve.
It just shows the game is a broken mess of rubbish, and most of the time anyone saying "its your tactic" doesnt know anything about football tactics. All they know its the tactics of winning on this absolute dog of a game, none of which has anything to do with real life and everything to do with a miserable match engine.
It just shows the game is a broken mess of rubbish, and most of the time anyone saying "its your tactic" doesnt know anything about football tactics. All they know its the tactics of winning on this absolute dog of a game, none of which has anything to do with real life and everything to do with a miserable match engine.
MurderOnZidanesFloor
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You know the phrase "when they cross the white line, theres nothing you can do"......well this game takes that phrase to a level I dont think anyone has ever seen, ever.
Its more like "when they cross the white line, the game will decide what happens and you can make all the changes you want, youll have no way of knowing if theyll work on any kind of consistent basis or whether its your fault or the players fault anyway, and even if they do work we can make any opposition defender turn into prime maldini or goalkeeper turn into prime gordon banks at any time whilst reducing mbappe to a sunday league player"
Its more like "when they cross the white line, the game will decide what happens and you can make all the changes you want, youll have no way of knowing if theyll work on any kind of consistent basis or whether its your fault or the players fault anyway, and even if they do work we can make any opposition defender turn into prime maldini or goalkeeper turn into prime gordon banks at any time whilst reducing mbappe to a sunday league player"
Without doubt. I saw someone post a tactic on this site that was a "modern 2-2-6 - Icardi 68 goals". This is just as unreasonable as the fact that a team struggles to do anything in a basic 451. If you can succeed with a "2-2-6" then it shows this game is not a simulation, merely a match engine run in line with the rules of football.
I have seen people look at a reasonable tactic that shouldn't result in getting hammered and pointing out ways to "improve" the person's tactic. But all it is is preference. The difference between a support FB and an attack full back is not such that it should break the match engine and players make ridiculous errors because of it. All they're doing is guiding people on how to exploit the match engine, then pretending they are some kind of tactical wizard.
The simple fact that year on year on year the most successful tactics are called "game breaking" tactics show how ruined this franchise is.