I don't understand what is wrong with putting arguments across though that support your opinion. Nothing wrong with that, if you don't want to read what is in the thread then simple, you don't need to view it.
Ronaldo or Messi?
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I don't understand what is wrong with putting arguments across though that support your opinion. Nothing wrong with that, if you don't want to read what is in the thread then simple, you don't need to view it.
Your trying to compare different eras for a start... one is 2011 and the other is 1960s......
Andy kindly listed a list of 20 greats, and most of them have played in a miltiple of top leagues...? At least all the modern one have, they have all at some stage been considered the top player in the world... They all tested themselves in different situations, teams, league, climate. Have messi done that...? didnt think so.
---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------
So dont read it big man, let me and |DMF *** ronny all we like.
beard4toon
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i think its a hard question to answer because they both have their own qualities
ronaldo - not only proven in spain but his form in the premiership was incredible never seen anything like it
messi - has taken the spot for the best player this year and has scored a incredible amount of goals for his position
i think ronaldo is better personally because he has won more and sounds like a stupid thing to say but i think the team messi plays in works more around him as with madrid they have loads of world class stars not working well enough together
ronaldo - not only proven in spain but his form in the premiership was incredible never seen anything like it
messi - has taken the spot for the best player this year and has scored a incredible amount of goals for his position
i think ronaldo is better personally because he has won more and sounds like a stupid thing to say but i think the team messi plays in works more around him as with madrid they have loads of world class stars not working well enough together
S
Sam
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I would prefer to have Ronaldo then Messi in the prem cos Messi wouldn't stand the physicality
markodragojevic
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Ronaldo > Messi !!!
Messi has won a lot more than Ronaldo.
What an absolutely pointless thread...they're two different players, it's like comparing Maradona and Pele, they're both great at what they do and you can't definitively say which one is better. C. Ronaldo is a more complete player. For me? I think Messi edges him, but that's my personal opinion and I'm not going to even try and pass it off as fact. And of course on a personal level, Messi is much less selfish and royal than Ronaldo, who is too concerned with his good looks and his brand. So I would definitely rather have Messi in my team, although I think Messi definitely has to be in a 4-3-3 and his qualities would not be able to shine if he played for another team. Ronaldo could play on any team because he can play as a traditional winger or striker better than Messi. It's a good argument for Ronaldo, but I still think that Messi for Barca is slightly better than Ronaldo for any team.
The league argument is terrible, he plays in one of the big 3, and before 09-10 La Liga was probably the best. You don't need to play in England to prove yourself, La Liga is almost as good so it's not like he's playing in a weak league. Zidane never played in England, does that mean he's not any good? Messi loves it at Barca, why should he leave? To try and win the respect of a few whiny English teenagers that won't like him no matter what?
The World Cup argument is equally terrible, Luca Toni has won a world cup and neither have CR7 or Messi, does that mean he was a better player? Even as far as national teams go, that's not a good indicator of your abilities. A lot of great players were never good for their national teams for a number of reasons. Maybe the system doesn't fit you well, the team you're on isn't good, you're not surrounded by the right players, maybe you don't care, etc. Henry was never good for France yet I never hear people mention that.
I also find it amusing that a bunch of people that have watched the Argentine team play 3-4 times over the past 4 years comment on Messi's performance with the national team. If you don't watch Argentina, don't comment on it just because other people say he underperforms for the national team. First of all, I'd like you to name one player for me who doesn't underperform for the Argentine national team. Second, the Argentine NT has a lot of problems, they have many great players but are very unbalanced and are missing players at key positions (ie fullbacks, a CM that is not a natural DM, and natural wingers). You can't make a formation that fits in their best players, and that's why every person has a completely different line-up when asked their starting XI for Argentina. Another problem is that all of the players on the Argentine NT play in different leagues and have totally different styles. This is why they can't play well as a team and the individuals underperform.
As for Messi, he hasn't been deployed well for the NT. He works best in a 4-3-3, which Argentina is finally moving towards, but they don't have good enough distributing CM's to make it work well (Cambiasso, Banega, Mascherano, Gago, etc. are all DM's), so they may abandon it. I'm assuming most of you guys watch Argentina play once every 4 years, and at the world cup, Messi had to play as the 'enganche' (AMC in a 4-4-2 diamond), meaning he played very deep and had to receive balls from the midfield and defense and play them forward, The role of the enganche isn't to score goals, it is to create attacks from farther back, and that's what he did. He was the engine of the team and was their best player at the tournament. He also could have bagged several goals if it wasn't for amazing goalkeeping by the South Korean keeper and especially the Nigerian keeper. As for Argentina the rest of the team, yes Argentina can't replicate his club form for many of the reasons stated above, but he's still great for them.
Anyways, it's not like CR is great for Portugal, and since he's the more well-rounded player who should be able to do well in any situation (can play as a natural winger or striker and isn't as specialized as Messi is), he should be able to replicate his form for the NT.
I've noticed for a while on the boards here that ManU fans in particular hate Barca, and I'm trying to figure out why. Chelsea fans do because they're still angry about the CL semi-final in 09, and it's one thing that I really don't respect them for...you really weren't robbed (Barca had a legitimate goal called back for offsides, only one of the handballs and one of the penalties was controversial, but both of those calls could have easily gone either way, and they outplayed you with 10 men), get over it, and the conduct of the players and fans afterwards was absolutely disgraceful. If the same thing happened to ManU, of course Ferguson would go crazy about it and the English press would tear Barca to pieces, but I bet you the players would have been completely professional about it and would have accepted defeat.
Arsenal fans, on the other hand, love Barca because they have similar philosophies and they love Barca's style of play (and are glad at seeing a team play like that get success), but Arsenal's youth system isn't anywhere near Barca's, their players are injured constantly, and some of their very good players leave (they really could have used Flamini over the past couple of seasons, for example). That's why they aren't in the same class as Barca.
But as for ManU fans, why do they hate Barca so much? I think for some it's because they're still bitter about the final in 09. That was a legendary team for ManU, and with Alves missing the match a lot of people thought ManU would tear them apart...the opposite happened, so it was a huge blow to the self-esteem of a lot of ManU fans. It made it seem as their team wasn't as invincible as everyone thought. But I think the real reason is that they are used to being the world's team. They are by far the most popular team in the world. In England, of course, everyone is for ManU (I mean look at this board), and it marketed itself well so it's the favorite team of many countries around the world, including the US (which has more fans of the sport than you'd think) and many Asian countries. They're used to being the "good guys," the team that everyone likes. But since Barca has arrived onto the seen, neutrals tend to prefer them to any other team, and people all over the world are now declaring themselves Barca fans. The press and neutrals everywhere are absolutely in love with Barca, for their success, for their youth system, for how well they play as a team (great players who didn't grow up inside the youth system can't really fit in), and for their mesmerizing style of play and on-the-field product. They have (arguably) the best player in the world, which ManU used to have.
Of course this isn't every ManU fan, and every great team is going to have haters, but that's my personal explanation for why ManU fans in particular dislike Barca and not Real Madrid (you'd think they'd hate them more), Inter, Bayern, etc. I know many will hate me for it but it's just my .02, I'm using logic to try and explain why ManU tends to not like Barca. And I'm not affiliated with Barca in any way, shape, or form, other than being a neutral admirer. I wish I could claim some allegiance to Barca (maybe having lived there for a little while, having a family member from there or for the team, etc.), but I can't, so I am not a fan, and I won't change that. I don't want to be one of the glory-hunters abroad who like Barca or ManU or whoever even though they have no affiliation with the city or team.
I think everyone else in England is pretty much indifferent, although some hate Messi since he's Argentine (another thing I find amusing), but I've written way too much in this stupid thread and am way off-topic so I won't write any more.
The league argument is terrible, he plays in one of the big 3, and before 09-10 La Liga was probably the best. You don't need to play in England to prove yourself, La Liga is almost as good so it's not like he's playing in a weak league. Zidane never played in England, does that mean he's not any good? Messi loves it at Barca, why should he leave? To try and win the respect of a few whiny English teenagers that won't like him no matter what?
The World Cup argument is equally terrible, Luca Toni has won a world cup and neither have CR7 or Messi, does that mean he was a better player? Even as far as national teams go, that's not a good indicator of your abilities. A lot of great players were never good for their national teams for a number of reasons. Maybe the system doesn't fit you well, the team you're on isn't good, you're not surrounded by the right players, maybe you don't care, etc. Henry was never good for France yet I never hear people mention that.
I also find it amusing that a bunch of people that have watched the Argentine team play 3-4 times over the past 4 years comment on Messi's performance with the national team. If you don't watch Argentina, don't comment on it just because other people say he underperforms for the national team. First of all, I'd like you to name one player for me who doesn't underperform for the Argentine national team. Second, the Argentine NT has a lot of problems, they have many great players but are very unbalanced and are missing players at key positions (ie fullbacks, a CM that is not a natural DM, and natural wingers). You can't make a formation that fits in their best players, and that's why every person has a completely different line-up when asked their starting XI for Argentina. Another problem is that all of the players on the Argentine NT play in different leagues and have totally different styles. This is why they can't play well as a team and the individuals underperform.
As for Messi, he hasn't been deployed well for the NT. He works best in a 4-3-3, which Argentina is finally moving towards, but they don't have good enough distributing CM's to make it work well (Cambiasso, Banega, Mascherano, Gago, etc. are all DM's), so they may abandon it. I'm assuming most of you guys watch Argentina play once every 4 years, and at the world cup, Messi had to play as the 'enganche' (AMC in a 4-4-2 diamond), meaning he played very deep and had to receive balls from the midfield and defense and play them forward, The role of the enganche isn't to score goals, it is to create attacks from farther back, and that's what he did. He was the engine of the team and was their best player at the tournament. He also could have bagged several goals if it wasn't for amazing goalkeeping by the South Korean keeper and especially the Nigerian keeper. As for Argentina the rest of the team, yes Argentina can't replicate his club form for many of the reasons stated above, but he's still great for them.
Anyways, it's not like CR is great for Portugal, and since he's the more well-rounded player who should be able to do well in any situation (can play as a natural winger or striker and isn't as specialized as Messi is), he should be able to replicate his form for the NT.
I've noticed for a while on the boards here that ManU fans in particular hate Barca, and I'm trying to figure out why. Chelsea fans do because they're still angry about the CL semi-final in 09, and it's one thing that I really don't respect them for...you really weren't robbed (Barca had a legitimate goal called back for offsides, only one of the handballs and one of the penalties was controversial, but both of those calls could have easily gone either way, and they outplayed you with 10 men), get over it, and the conduct of the players and fans afterwards was absolutely disgraceful. If the same thing happened to ManU, of course Ferguson would go crazy about it and the English press would tear Barca to pieces, but I bet you the players would have been completely professional about it and would have accepted defeat.
Arsenal fans, on the other hand, love Barca because they have similar philosophies and they love Barca's style of play (and are glad at seeing a team play like that get success), but Arsenal's youth system isn't anywhere near Barca's, their players are injured constantly, and some of their very good players leave (they really could have used Flamini over the past couple of seasons, for example). That's why they aren't in the same class as Barca.
But as for ManU fans, why do they hate Barca so much? I think for some it's because they're still bitter about the final in 09. That was a legendary team for ManU, and with Alves missing the match a lot of people thought ManU would tear them apart...the opposite happened, so it was a huge blow to the self-esteem of a lot of ManU fans. It made it seem as their team wasn't as invincible as everyone thought. But I think the real reason is that they are used to being the world's team. They are by far the most popular team in the world. In England, of course, everyone is for ManU (I mean look at this board), and it marketed itself well so it's the favorite team of many countries around the world, including the US (which has more fans of the sport than you'd think) and many Asian countries. They're used to being the "good guys," the team that everyone likes. But since Barca has arrived onto the seen, neutrals tend to prefer them to any other team, and people all over the world are now declaring themselves Barca fans. The press and neutrals everywhere are absolutely in love with Barca, for their success, for their youth system, for how well they play as a team (great players who didn't grow up inside the youth system can't really fit in), and for their mesmerizing style of play and on-the-field product. They have (arguably) the best player in the world, which ManU used to have.
Of course this isn't every ManU fan, and every great team is going to have haters, but that's my personal explanation for why ManU fans in particular dislike Barca and not Real Madrid (you'd think they'd hate them more), Inter, Bayern, etc. I know many will hate me for it but it's just my .02, I'm using logic to try and explain why ManU tends to not like Barca. And I'm not affiliated with Barca in any way, shape, or form, other than being a neutral admirer. I wish I could claim some allegiance to Barca (maybe having lived there for a little while, having a family member from there or for the team, etc.), but I can't, so I am not a fan, and I won't change that. I don't want to be one of the glory-hunters abroad who like Barca or ManU or whoever even though they have no affiliation with the city or team.
I think everyone else in England is pretty much indifferent, although some hate Messi since he's Argentine (another thing I find amusing), but I've written way too much in this stupid thread and am way off-topic so I won't write any more.
Pele is the best player to have ever lived. I take it because he hasn't proved himself in the top leagues then he isn't really that good?
Messi- 33 games 40 goals 18 assists Ronaldo 35 games 34 goals 9 assists.. messi is better all round.. the stats prove it.. only thing u can really say for sure ronaldo is better than messi in is physicality, but half the time fail to use cause hes diving all over the place.. oh and cant leave out ronaldo is a beast in the air.. but anyway messi is better 
beard4toon
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in all fairness filipe i think i was wrong about the winning but he has been big in both the premier league and la liga you mus agree with some of my points
He says, before reeling off a huge post in the same thread.
Yeah, i agree that he has been terrific this season, but i prefer Messi, not only because i'm a Barcelona fan. And i know some Real Madrid fans that would trade Ronaldo for Messi.
beard4toon
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oh i cant doubt messi one bit i think he has a better attitude keeps his face out of the press to
Yeah Ronaldo is becoming the new Beckham.
Except that Pele isn't the best player ever, Maradona is just as good, and a lot of people think he's better.
Also, I don't see how it supports your argument. Pele was really good in one league, so he's the best of all time. Messi is really good in one league and has better stats in that league that C. Ronaldo does...so C. Ronaldo is a better player just because he's played in more leagues? Is Robben better than both of them because he has been very, very good in 3 of the big 4 leagues? And wouldn't Maradona be better than Pele because he proved himself in Argentina, Spain, and Italy?
Also, I don't see how it supports your argument. Pele was really good in one league, so he's the best of all time. Messi is really good in one league and has better stats in that league that C. Ronaldo does...so C. Ronaldo is a better player just because he's played in more leagues? Is Robben better than both of them because he has been very, very good in 3 of the big 4 leagues? And wouldn't Maradona be better than Pele because he proved himself in Argentina, Spain, and Italy?
But the majority of Pele's goals came whilst he was playing in the Brazilian league, one which tbh is not that great. Along with the MLS.
Winning world cups isn't a great argument to be honest, there are some truly world class players that have never won a world cup.
And he scored so many goals because he played in such an amazing team, a la Messi. Pele played with the likes of Garrincha, Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho and Rivelino etc...
IMO, it's a bit foolish to use one argument to defend Pele, (scoring goals) but to completely disregard the same one when talking about Messi. They both play in exceptional teams.
xxManchesterUnited
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Not getting enough credit, getting called best player of all time poor little messi
---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------
Cristiano Ronaldo #1 - Messi #2 - Xavi #3 - Ineista #4 Sneijder # 5
---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------
Cristiano Ronaldo #1 - Messi #2 - Xavi #3 - Ineista #4 Sneijder # 5