Southampton FC, a tactical exercise on FM15

MANUMAD said:
Spot on mate! Im using it with United. You re defo on the right track with making tactics general - its the way to go if you play reactively.
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Finished third in my first season. Very disappointed at the fact that my transfer budget is a measley 16 million
 
Generally in a possession oriented tactic you pair the instructions of "close down more" with "get stuck in" because it requires aggression to quickly win back the ball. When you use "stay on feet" with "closing down more" you give the opposition more time to play passes through your pressure units. "push higher" and "offside trap" and "prevent short option from GK" are also tools to further the goal of quickly regaining possession.

I will admit that I haven't read all of your thread but I will add a few thoughts on structure in relation to possession based tactics.

You need positions and player movement to work together with your goal of possession, so that your players have good safe passing options up into the final third. That means complementary roles. I don't really find the "dictate tempo" player preference to be too important.

A 3 man central midfield triangle (DMC-MC-MC/ DMC-DMC-AMC/MC-MC-AMC) with the defend/support/attack instructions. This is in order to maintain the passing options and create complementary movement. You need an anchor (not necessarily an "anchor man") in midfield both for protecting your defence and for offering a safe passing option. You also need movement around the box which is offered by the support and attack instructions. In the forward line I have similar complementary positions and instructions (DLF-AF/ TQ-TM) with attack and support instructions. The players involved can be offensive midfilders, wide players or forwards, depending on your formation preference.

I recommend this guide if you are interested in this sort of things.

Pairs & Combinations: The Complete Series *UPDATED*

Good luck.
 
WolverineBrother said:
Generally in a possession oriented tactic you pair the instructions of "close down more" with "get stuck in" because it requires aggression to quickly win back the ball. When you use "stay on feet" with "closing down more" you give the opposition more time to play passes through your pressure units. "push higher" and "offside trap" and "prevent short option from GK" are also tools to further the goal of quickly regaining possession.

I will admit that I haven't read all of your thread but I will add a few thoughts on structure in relation to possession based tactics.

You need positions and player movement to work together with your goal of possession, so that your players have good safe passing options up into the final third. That means complementary roles. I don't really find the "dictate tempo" player preference to be too important.

A 3 man central midfield triangle (DMC-MC-MC/ DMC-DMC-AMC/MC-MC-AMC) with the defend/support/attack instructions. This is in order to maintain the passing options and create complementary movement. You need an anchor (not necessarily an "anchor man") in midfield both for protecting your defence and for offering a safe passing option. You also need movement around the box which is offered by the support and attack instructions. In the forward line I have similar complementary positions and instructions (DLF-AF/ TQ-TM) with attack and support instructions. The players involved can be offensive midfilders, wide players or forwards, depending on your formation preference.

I recommend this guide if you are interested in this sort of things.

Pairs & Combinations: The Complete Series *UPDATED*

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Very good points made. What you are talking about really is counter pressing which is absolutely necessary for striker less tactics. But for normal formations you can get away with being less aggressive than what you imply
 
WolverineBrother said:
Generally in a possession oriented tactic you pair the instructions of "close down more" with "get stuck in" because it requires aggression to quickly win back the ball. When you use "stay on feet" with "closing down more" you give the opposition more time to play passes through your pressure units. "push higher" and "offside trap" and "prevent short option from GK" are also tools to further the goal of quickly regaining possession.

I will admit that I haven't read all of your thread but I will add a few thoughts on structure in relation to possession based tactics.

You need positions and player movement to work together with your goal of possession, so that your players have good safe passing options up into the final third. That means complementary roles. I don't really find the "dictate tempo" player preference to be too important.

A 3 man central midfield triangle (DMC-MC-MC/ DMC-DMC-AMC/MC-MC-AMC) with the defend/support/attack instructions. This is in order to maintain the passing options and create complementary movement. You need an anchor (not necessarily an "anchor man") in midfield both for protecting your defence and for offering a safe passing option. You also need movement around the box which is offered by the support and attack instructions. In the forward line I have similar complementary positions and instructions (DLF-AF/ TQ-TM) with attack and support instructions. The players involved can be offensive midfilders, wide players or forwards, depending on your formation preference.

I recommend this guide if you are interested in this sort of things.

Pairs & Combinations: The Complete Series *UPDATED*

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Had a read through that article, it was very useful! Hopefully they can update it for fm 15 because members of the community are struggling to get certain roles working well
 
Hello guys, apologies for not posting for a while, I'm busy with exams and stuff. This Southampton save is getting tricky, no matter who my opponent is I always seem to concede from corners. Currently second in the premier league to arsenal, and have just come out of the champions league group stage second in a group with Bayern, Porto and Twente.

Anyways, tactical analysis. My last game against United was a pretty good example. I was able to beat them, unlike arsenal :(

View attachment 714254

They play a 4-3-1-2, they pass the ball a lot (their manager loves passing) and they like to attack. I really wanted to counter attack but in my FM 15 experience, the counter attacking mentality really does not work. So I was left with two choices - go defensive and counter on the flanks, or just attack them out wide. I decided to go with the attacking mentality

View attachment 714256 View attachment 714259

Pelle got a four month injury back in october, so Zivkovic had to play upfront. I wanted to play to his strengths so I put him as a poacher, and got an attacking midfielder and inside forward to thread balls to him (both on support due to the oppositions strength). Clyne was put as wingback and the inside forward was given a 'sit narrower' instruction to give Clyne space to run in to. Clyne also had 'Run wide with ball' and 'Stay wider'.

On to the left hand side, Mane had to be a winger to expose the flaw in their 4-3-1-2, the fact that they have no width. Blind was playing at right back too so I decided to put mane on the left to expose Blind's lack of pace. The whole match plan worked a treat.

View attachment 714261View attachment 714262

I went into this match wishing to exploit the flanks. Three goals were from crosses and one was a scorcher from Will Hughes. Wasn't too happy with the 2 goals conceded but one was a corner rebound, and besides, its Manchester United. The match analysis shows that our crossing was very accurate too, maybe low crosses are overpowered in this updateView attachment 714262

Finally, the average positions. Everyone was exactly where I predicted they would be, apart from Mane, who was almost as high as the striker!

View attachment 714263

A very nice performance against a very strong side. January soon, will be looking to sign a left sided player, a pacy one who is versatile and can play as an inside forward or winger. Will try my best to sign Depay. On with the saints!
 
Your images are not loading, could you try again id like to see them!

Tactics in this game are seriously difficult to master - nothing seems to work in a consistent manor.
 
*sorry for images not showing, here is the repost*

Hello guys, apologies for not posting for a while, I'm busy with exams and stuff. This Southampton save is getting tricky, no matter who my opponent is I always seem to concede from corners. Currently second in the premier league to arsenal, and have just come out of the champions league group stage second in a group with Bayern, Porto and Twente.

Anyways, tactical analysis. My last game against United was a pretty good example. I was able to beat them, unlike my beloved arsenal
sad.gif


View attachment 324740

They play a 4-3-1-2, they pass the ball a lot (their manager loves passing) and they like to attack. I really wanted to counter attack but in my FM 15 experience, the counter attacking mentality really does not work. So I was left with two choices - go defensive and counter on the flanks, or just attack them out wide. I decided to go with the attacking mentality

View attachment 324739 View attachment 324738

Pelle got a four month injury back in october, so Zivkovic had to play upfront. I wanted to play to his strengths so I put him as a poacher, and got an attacking midfielder and inside forward to thread balls to him (both on support due to the oppositions strength). Clyne was put as wingback and the inside forward was given a 'sit narrower' instruction to give Clyne space to run in to. Clyne also had 'Run wide with ball' and 'Stay wider'.

On to the left hand side, Mane had to be a winger to expose the flaw in their 4-3-1-2, the fact that they have no width. Blind was playing at right back too so I decided to put mane on the left to expose Blind's lack of pace. The whole match plan worked a treat.

View attachment 324737

I went into this match wishing to exploit the flanks. Three goals were from crosses and one was a scorcher from Will Hughes. Wasn't too happy with the 2 goals conceded but one was a corner rebound, and besides, its Manchester United. The match analysis shows that our crossing was very accurate too, maybe low crosses are overpowered in this update
View attachment 324736
Finally, the average positions. Everyone was exactly where I predicted they would be, apart from Mane, who was almost as high as the striker!

View attachment 324735

A very nice performance against a very strong side. January soon, will be looking to sign a left sided player, a pacy one who is versatile and can play as an inside forward or winger. Will try my best to sign Depay. On with the saints!
 
iamneallyons said:
Your images are not loading, could you try again id like to see them!

Tactics in this game are seriously difficult to master - nothing seems to work in a consistent manor.
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I have recently had a lot of success with a 4-2DM-3-1 formation. I tend to drop the two wide players into wide midfield if the opposition has very strong wingers
 
dakofsta said:
I have recently had a lot of success with a 4-2DM-3-1 formation. I tend to drop the two wide players into wide midfield if the opposition has very strong wingers
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Hey dakofsta,

can you upload the new tactic that you have created 4-2-3-1 DM,


thank you,
 
Very interesting thread!

I have a couple of questions though, I find it extremely hard to defend against teams that are playing a 4-2DM-3-1 tactic. I try to play with 3 central defenders and in front of the defense 2 wingbacks and 1 DM, who al man mark the opponent's attacking 3. 2 CM's, 1 adavanced playmaker and 1 advanced forward. Mentality is counter. Instructions: drop deeper, more direct passing, lower tempo etc.

This just about allows me not to loose too heavily against better sides or draw against lesser sides, but I can't seem to find a weak spot in this tactic to exploit.

Also, what would be a good way to defend your own initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide possession tactic? I tried 4-4-2 with counter mentality, but getting mixed results to be honest.
 
leartdushi said:
Hey dakofsta,

can you upload the new tactic that you have created 4-2-3-1 DM,


thank you,
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Unfortunately I cannot as my laptop screen is now brokem, so no fm until the 15th :( I'm very sorry, but use the same team instructions in the screenshots which I posted
 
rebelinho01 said:
Very interesting thread!

I have a couple of questions though, I find it extremely hard to defend against teams that are playing a 4-2DM-3-1 tactic. I try to play with 3 central defenders and in front of the defense 2 wingbacks and 1 DM, who al man mark the opponent's attacking 3. 2 CM's, 1 adavanced playmaker and 1 advanced forward. Mentality is counter. Instructions: drop deeper, more direct passing, lower tempo etc.

This just about allows me not to loose too heavily against better sides or draw against lesser sides, but I can't seem to find a weak spot in this tactic to exploit.

Also, what would be a good way to defend your own initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide possession tactic? I tried 4-4-2 with counter mentality, but getting mixed results to be honest.
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Thanks! Yeah those two are tricky to beat, but 4-2-3-1 DM has a big gap between the defense and attack, so man mark their two dm's with at least 2 AMs to prevent them being able to create chances, and exploit the gap by putting a playmaker in there. Don't use 3 at the back formations against 1 striker! And beating it is tricky, but the 4-2-3-1 DM tactic was created to beat those sort of formations. If the opposition's wide midfielders are very dangerous, drop your wide attackers to wide midfield to give more defensive impetus
 
dakofsta said:
Thanks! Yeah those two are tricky to beat, but 4-2-3-1 DM has a big gap between the defense and attack, so man mark their two dm's with at least 2 AMs to prevent them being able to create chances, and exploit the gap by putting a playmaker in there. Don't use 3 at the back formations against 1 striker! And beating it is tricky, but the 4-2-3-1 DM tactic was created to beat those sort of formations. If the opposition's wide midfielders are very dangerous, drop your wide attackers to wide midfield to give more defensive impetus
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You were absolutely spot on with your suggestions on how to beat 4-2-3-1 DM. I created a 4-2-3-1 narrow, with 2 of my attacking mids man marking and closing down the opponent’s DM’s. I let one of my CM’s play as a deep lying playmaker which indeed allowed me to dominate the midfield.
Your remarks about every formation having gaps to exploit made me think more about formations, shapes and roles and so far I’m doing ok with my mid-table Belgian team. For example, against a 4-1-4-1 I exploited the gap between their midfield and attack by using your initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide possession tactic , but turned the anchor man into a deep lying playmaker.
I still find it hard to beat your initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide formation though, not even by playing a 4-2-3-1 DM myself. I found that playing a 4-3-2-1 formation, with 3 CM’s (1 being a playmaker) yields the best results so far, but it’s not like I’m dominating the game, far from it, so any suggestion on how to play against your tactic is more than welcome.
 
rebelinho01 said:
You were absolutely spot on with your suggestions on how to beat 4-2-3-1 DM. I created a 4-2-3-1 narrow, with 2 of my attacking mids man marking and closing down the opponent’s DM’s. I let one of my CM’s play as a deep lying playmaker which indeed allowed me to dominate the midfield.
Your remarks about every formation having gaps to exploit made me think more about formations, shapes and roles and so far I’m doing ok with my mid-table Belgian team. For example, against a 4-1-4-1 I exploited the gap between their midfield and attack by using your initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide possession tactic , but turned the anchor man into a deep lying playmaker.
I still find it hard to beat your initial 4-1-2-2-1 wide formation though, not even by playing a 4-2-3-1 DM myself. I found that playing a 4-3-2-1 formation, with 3 CM’s (1 being a playmaker) yields the best results so far, but it’s not like I’m dominating the game, far from it, so any suggestion on how to play against your tactic is more than welcome.
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Brilliant idea! Did you specifically attempt to retain possession? Yep it made sense to put your deep-lying playmaker in the hole between the midfield and attack of the 4-1-4-1.

4-1-2-2-1 is a very annoying formation to come up against, so what I tend to do is exploit the positional weaknesses instead of the formation weaknesses, because the formation is probably the most balanced formation in fm 15. For example, if their main playmaker is their left centre mid and they have a terrible right back, I would automatically have two centre mids so that one of them can man mark their centre mid, and wingers to exploit their bad full back. Then I would have wingbacks to enhance the attacking emphasis, and exploit the flanks to make my players use width. Since I would already have a goalkeeper and two centre backs, I would be left with having to pick a midfielder and striker. Since I'm using width, the striker should be one that links play and is good in the air, so he can be a target man, complete forward or maybe even a deep lying forward, and my last centre mid would be a regista so that he has a lot of space due to the opposition having no players in that area
 
dakofsta said:
Brilliant idea! Did you specifically attempt to retain possession? Yep it made sense to put your deep-lying playmaker in the hole between the midfield and attack of the 4-1-4-1.

4-1-2-2-1 is a very annoying formation to come up against, so what I tend to do is exploit the positional weaknesses instead of the formation weaknesses, because the formation is probably the most balanced formation in fm 15. For example, if their main playmaker is their left centre mid and they have a terrible right back, I would automatically have two centre mids so that one of them can man mark their centre mid, and wingers to exploit their bad full back. Then I would have wingbacks to enhance the attacking emphasis, and exploit the flanks to make my players use width. Since I would already have a goalkeeper and two centre backs, I would be left with having to pick a midfielder and striker. Since I'm using width, the striker should be one that links play and is good in the air, so he can be a target man, complete forward or maybe even a deep lying forward, and my last centre mid would be a regista so that he has a lot of space due to the opposition having no players in that area
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Yes, I used the following instructions with my 4-2-3-1 narrow:

View attachment 320653

As for playing against 4-1-2-2-1. I tested this thoroughly by going back to a saved game a couple of times and watch the full match, at least until I got the general idea of what was going on/wrong. Some might consider this cheating, I call it in-depth analysis :)

In general, I think I had the wrong mindset in trying to adapt my style of play too much to the opponent’s tactics. Yes, 4-1-2-2-1 is tricky to play against, but it frustrated me that I didn’t come close to winning games against opponents that are weaker in all areas. In the end, I chose a 4-2-3-1 wide formation, because I have good inner forwards, a shadow striker and an outstanding deep lying playmaker. I man marked their CM playmaker and defensive mid. The key to success lay in getting the instructions just right. I always used possession instructions and drop deeper because I was wary of the opponent’s attacking options. I found that with my particular team it helped to push higher and close down more, in combination with the usual possession instructions. I built in some safety by giving individual ‘close down less’ player instructions to my defensive line. This resulted in being much more and much quicker in the opponent’s half, it allowed my full backs to support attacks and get crosses in. I managed to get a lot more CCCs.

If you’re interested I can upload the tactic.

I think you mentioned it earlier in this thread, that your tactic can change with every game. This is true in my experience, well, at least when you’re not Real Madrid.

Thanks for your insights, it helped me a great deal to change the way to look at this game.
 
rebelinho01 said:
Yes, I used the following instructions with my 4-2-3-1 narrow:

View attachment 725396

As for playing against 4-1-2-2-1. I tested this thoroughly by going back to a saved game a couple of times and watch the full match, at least until I got the general idea of what was going on/wrong. Some might consider this cheating, I call it in-depth analysis :)

In general, I think I had the wrong mindset in trying to adapt my style of play too much to the opponent’s tactics. Yes, 4-1-2-2-1 is tricky to play against, but it frustrated me that I didn’t come close to winning games against opponents that are weaker in all areas. In the end, I chose a 4-2-3-1 wide formation, because I have good inner forwards, a shadow striker and an outstanding deep lying playmaker. I man marked their CM playmaker and defensive mid. The key to success lay in getting the instructions just right. I always used possession instructions and drop deeper because I was wary of the opponent’s attacking options. I found that with my particular team it helped to push higher and close down more, in combination with the usual possession instructions. I built in some safety by giving individual ‘close down less’ player instructions to my defensive line. This resulted in being much more and much quicker in the opponent’s half, it allowed my full backs to support attacks and get crosses in. I managed to get a lot more CCCs.

If you’re interested I can upload the tactic.

I think you mentioned it earlier in this thread, that your tactic can change with every game. This is true in my experience, well, at least when you’re not Real Madrid.

Thanks for your insights, it helped me a great deal to change the way to look at this game.
Click to expand...

Nice one! I wouldn't have even thought of that! And yes, it is true that if you change your team instructions and tactics so much that it no longer suits the team you have (i.e. you have put theo walcott as an advanced playmaker) your team will struggle to play well. And you're most certainly welcome :)
 
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