Tactic Testing System by TFF

My Tests are and will always be 100% impartial.

I do not care one bit which tactic comes out on top

The aim of my tests is always to provide an indication of how tactics will perform in a real save, therefore I use real players with real stats rather than duplicate generic players with fake stats.

If a tactic performs well in one of my tests there is a very good chance it will perform well in a real save.

In all my years of testing tactics I have never critisied anyone's tactics especially TFF's but every year without fail he will make atleast 2 threads/posts bashing my testing methods.

Anyway I will continue with what I am doing as I enjoy doing it and I feel it provides a valuable service for the community.
 
I agree with you TFF that different testing systems could show different results. I also agree that simulating matches won't never be the same compared to watching the match or even doing by 'only commentary' option. It happened to me when I finished one of the tests with Will's database with around 2.27 poins per game the same tactic was simply unbalanced when tried in a regular save. I am not saying that it was useless, but nowhere near to 2.27 PPG. To be honest, I also faced the opposite too: used simulation for some 10 matches and was heavily suffering, record around 2-4-4. Abandonded that save, started again with same tactic, whatched the same matches and got the record of 6-3-1. What do you think is it possible that simulation shows results in other way round?

Other thing: Are you planning to extend your testing league? I am not sure what the others are thinking, but for me it would be great if some more teams would be in the testing league and with lower calibre, since Man Utd is the so to say weakest team atm (sorry United fans (H) ). Including teams like Everton, Marseille or Inter (just examples) would mean that we can test the tactics against teams who are going to defend or counter.
What's your opinion?
 
Will1981 said:
My Tests are and will always be 100% impartial.

I do not care one bit which tactic comes out on top

The aim of my tests is always to provide an indication of how tactics will perform in a real save, therefore I use real players with real stats rather than duplicate generic players with fake stats.

If a tactic performs well in one of my tests there is a very good chance it will perform well in a real save.
Click to expand...

Will, you should try to understand my position and why I'm doing it. There many people at this forum that I know for years and I like them and I know that these people actually play FM and they come here to find a good tactic to play the game and learn something about the game that helps them to do better in the game and I'll do everything to help those people and if I see that someone shamelessly tries to scam them and waste their time the then I'll act to warning them.

I don't say that you intentionally try to scam anyone here but you behave like a person that hasn't any medical educations but always have been dreaming to be a doctor and despite the fact that this person doesn't have any medical education he makes surgery to all people around and people dies after those surgeries but this person always find excuse for himself that it isn't his fault because he tried "to help" so his good intentions should be enough excuse for his incompetence.

Will, I remember you said that you didn't watch any single match in FM and you had no idea what attributes are the most important for any role and even "dumb" assistant manager is more competent in that area than you. Also I saw that you said that you still didn't started any a real save in FM16 but despite all that you are trying to do the most complicated thing that only can be is tactics testing..

Btw...Will, I don't say that you should stop doing what you doing and I didn't say that in my post... everyone is free to do whatever they want here...


zyndar said:
Other thing: Are you planning to extend your testing league? I am not sure what the others are thinking, but for me it would be great if some more teams would be in the testing league and with lower calibre, since Man Utd is the so to say weakest team atm (sorry United fans (H) ). Including teams like Everton, Marseille or Inter (just examples) would mean that we can test the tactics against teams who are going to defend or counter.
What's your opinion?
Click to expand...

Few pages back I uploaded a save with a testing league when you are a strong favorite comapre to other teams in the testing league so you can download it test in that kind of environment if you want.
 
TotalFootballFan9 said:
Will, you should try to understand my position and why I'm doing it. There many people at this forum that I know for years and I like them and I know that these people actually play FM and they come here to find a good tactic to play the game and learn something about the game that helps them to do better in the game and I'll do everything to help those people and if I see that someone shamelessly tries to scam them and waste their time the then I'll act to warning them.

I don't say that you intentionally try to scam anyone here but you behave like a person that hasn't any medical educations but always have been dreaming to be a doctor and despite the fact that this person doesn't have any medical education he makes surgery to all people around and people dies after those surgeries but this person always find excuse for himself that it isn't his fault because he tried "to help" so his good intentions should be enough excuse for his incompetence.

Will, I remember you said that you didn't watch any single match in FM and you had no idea what attributes are the most important for any role and even "dumb" assistant manager is more competent in that area than you. Also I saw that you said that you still didn't started any a real save in FM16 but despite all that you are trying to do the most complicated thing that only can be is tactics testing..

Btw...Will, I don't say that you should stop doing what you doing and I didn't say that in my post... everyone is free to do whatever they want here...




Few pages back I uploaded a save with a testing league when you are a strong favorite comapre to other teams in the testing league so you can download it test in that kind of environment if you want.
Click to expand...
what a load of utter bollox.

I have been testing tactics for as long as you have been making them and I put alot time into it and pride myself on the quality of my testing database's.

I dont tell you how to make tactics, so how dare you try to tell me how to test tactics.
 
Honestly fellas tactic testing is always going to be a matter of opinion on which method is the best. There is absolutely no point arguing about it.

I enjoy diverse testing methods we see on these forums and believe the best way to test is to play a save all the way through from taking over a real club to developing it to end game. Does this make me right? Probably not in Alot of people's eyes but if I think I'm right who cares what other people think.
 
Will1981 said:
I have been testing tactics for as long as you have been making them and I put alot time into it and pride myself on the quality of my testing database's.

I dont tell you how to make tactics, so how dare you try to tell me how to test tactics.
Click to expand...

Will, I started to test tactics since the moment I started to create them because tactic creating process and tactic testing process aren't separate things... and it's ridiculous to assume that someone can create good tactics if he doesn't know how to test them :)
 
TotalFootballFan9 said:
Few pages back I uploaded a save with a testing league when you are a strong favorite comapre to other teams in the testing league so you can download it test in that kind of environment if you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks but I am talking something of a mixture of the 2 database, but with a bit higher rated teams.
 
The tactics should be tested in real leagues with real teams, because that's how we are gonna play the game.

You just need to find a bottom league team with players for (almost) all positions and then test the tactic to see how it performs. That was the way I knew that Lokito Guardiola Concept for FM15 was really good and for FM16, as far as I know, the best one is Devastator (yet the number of yellow cards is a bit unrealistic).
 
TotalFootballFan9 said:
Ok... guys, before I start, I want to bring everyone's attention to the fact that obviously, I'm a lying monster (6) that posts his tactics here and the only thing that I want is to confuse everyone around and make my tactics look good and other people's tactics bad... Ok, if you still read then I'll continue... ;)


I observe that many unexperienced FM players and even some veteran players, especially those of them who in the past were spoiled by some set pieces exploits that FM15 had, still can't accept the fact that you can't have 100% winning probability in FM16, for example, when you manage some mid table team like Southampton(the default team) and play AWAY match against some top clubs like Chelsea and even if you use "the best" tactic for FM16 then the best what you can get is about only 30-40% chances to get win/draw in that kind of match... Yes, it might sound harsh but it's true because FM isn't FIFA or any other football arcade game ;) and it's supposed to be realistic so there are some limits how much you can overachieve by using a very good tactic but quality of your players always will be containing factor of your overachieving. Also, I see that some people think that the only what you need to achieve a success in FM is to have a good tactic but not everyone understand that your tactic contributes only 50% to your success and other 50% depends on the quality and suitability of the players that you use for the tactic so in order to achieve a success in FM you should have not only good knowledge about how tactics works but also you should have good knowledge about how players' attributes work but some people think that players only affect your results by 5-10% and not more but such thinking is a big mistake that causes many frustrations.


Also, I see some hype around different testing here and it means that many people live in a false hope and they think that in order to make an awesome tactic you shouldn't spend thousand hours on watching matches and learning how ME works and you can just spend 30-40 minutes pushing "Instant Result" and "Continue" buttons to test your tactic for about 50 matches and this way you can create the best tactic ever because it'll give you answers to all your question... Heh, it's sad to say but such thinking is just ridiculous and I'm sure that, many people deep inside understand it. Ok... but why then I made this testing? What use can it have? Of course, such testing can't tell you what PI would be better for your striker "Shoot Less Often" or "Shoot More Often" but it can help you filter some obviously bad approaches from some obviously good approaches that work well under current ME.


At first look it might seem that a process of creating testing system is a very simple thing but such thinking is the biggest mistake ever that you can make and in order to create a testing that provides even only more or less accurate results that could be somehow useful during the real game you should possess ABSOLUTE knowledge about the game, you should take into consideration thousands factors and many of those factors might look insignificant but have colossal impact on testing result and if you made a little mistake in the testing's configuration or in the way how you test then all results that you get would be not just "slightly" inaccurate but they will be totally misleading and they will lead you further away from good approach that works well in the current ME and many hours that you spend on testing would be thrown in garbage.

I just want to say to those people who have any doubts about their experience in FM and going to create thier own testing system that you'd better drop this idea because it will eat much of your time but the results that you'll get by using it won't help you at all in the real game. There are many other different testing methods that can be used by players who doesn't have much experience in the game with great efficiency and those methods can help to create very strong tactics. I'll tell about those methods later because it's a different story.


Now I want to show how different testing results might be depends on quality of the testing system:

Let's take Will1981's testing and look at his testing table, we see that "Sir Goalalot - 16.2 - Final v2 (Calamity Corner)" is at the top of it. That means that his testing system indicates that this tactic is incredibly good and the approaches that are used in this tactic work just great under correct ME.

I gave "Sir Goalalot - 16.2 - Final v2 (Calamity Corner)" a go in my testing system and the tactic didn't even manage to finish the testing because I was sacked after 30 matches and got only 32 points at that moment and that means the tactic has a score 1.06 points per match when Devastator was able to easily win the league with 100+ points after 48 matches and had a score 2.18 points per match(if you want you can find testing results of Devastator few pages back).


So if we compare Devastator and Sir Goalalot in my testing system then we'll get this result:



​
[TABLE="width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Tactic[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Points Per Match[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Devastator[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Sir Goalalot - 16.2 - Final v2 (Calamity Corner)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1.06[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



As you can see that my testing shows that the difference between the tactics is just colossal, Devastator gets about twice more points per match and it indicates that Devastator gives you much bigger chances on success in matches in the real game, of course, it doesn't mean that when you use Devastator you get 100% chances to win in every single match and it only indicates that your chances on success with it is much bigger than with other tactic. For example, Devastator might give you about 30% chance on success in some match when other tactic would give only 5% chance on success. Yes, 30% isn’t too great but anyway it’s much better than 5% with other tactic and that’s how FM works. ;)

Ok, now we've found out that one of the testing systems provides totally misleading results but the question is which system does it? ;) And before to answer that question, I recommend re-read the opening post at the 1st page and my post #65(in this thread) about "Quick Pick" function and its impact on testing results, especially, when you use different players for testing. Heh, of course, you shouldn't forget that I'm a lying monster (6) that posts his tactics here and the only thing that I want is to confuse everyone around and make my tactics look good and other people’s tactics bad and Will1981 is an independent person! ;) Anyway, guys you see that two testing might provide totally different results that aren't even close but it's up to you to decide what to belive, anyway it's your time that you spend on the game! My duty to inform you about it is done! ;)


Btw, as people say: "If you want a thing done well, do it yourself" and if you want to be independent from other people "fairness" and don't guess everytime does someone shows fake results or not then you should learn to test by yourself and for example, it takes no more than 30-40 minutes to test any tactic for 50 matches, of course, it's in case if you have a decent PC and it should be enough for a good designed testing system to give you a good understanding about tactic's quality and if you got not clear result and have some doubts then you always can test it for additional 50 matches. Yes, the testing takes some time but eventually it'll save you more time than you spent on the testing because it'll gives a knowledge which approaches are really good and which approaches are poor so in the future you won't spend your time on poor approaches.


Here are some screenshots of the Sir Goalalot - 16.2 - Final v2 (Calamity Corner) testing but you always can download the save that can be found at OP and test it by yourselves:


Click to expand...


Hey TFF,

If I send you my tactic would you test it? I can't do it myself because I can't figure out how Instant Result works. :@ Yes, I'm that dumb! :D

Thanks!
 
Would you like to test this tactic.

I Don't know if anyone has posted this tactic yet, but on SI Games forum is excellent tactic called 1-2-2-3-3 Tweebier plug and play great results. I used it on two saved test games in Holland & France where I started unemployed and I've taken a job with bottom half league club in the second tier of that country between October/December of 2015. And won promotion to the top tier, plus second tier league title in the first season without buying in any new players and just working with one's I have.

It's worth a go at the tactic, there's two tactics: for a strong team use attacking tactic and for a weaker team use control tactic.



Created by Tweebier

1-2-2-3-3 Tweebier plug and play great results
 
Last edited:
zyndar said:
... I also agree that simulating matches won't never be the same compared to watching the match or even doing by 'only commentary' option. It happened to me when I finished one of the tests with Will's database with around 2.27 poins per game the same tactic was simply unbalanced when tried in a regular save. I am not saying that it was useless, but nowhere near to 2.27 PPG. To be honest, I also faced the opposite too: used simulation for some 10 matches and was heavily suffering, record around 2-4-4. Abandonded that save, started again with same tactic, whatched the same matches and got the record of 6-3-1. What do you think is it possible that simulation shows results in other way round?
...
Click to expand...

Since I am curious what others are thinking, I am asking again: What do you think people, is it possible that a tactic is not working in simulation (or instant result), but it's working when watching the game?
 
i sure believe this

in simulation or instant result better working the attacking or control
 
Last edited:
Hey TFF,

Can you PM me you email? I've got few questions...

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
****​

Guys, I've updated the testing save at the OP. Now any tactic should be fully fluid before the 1st match of the season.
 
Last edited:
Zyndar's Deadly Circle Counter

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 520, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]WON[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]LST[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]AG[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]GD[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]PTS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]Zyndar's Deadly Circle Counter + Corner from FM Veteran[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]48[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]33[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]123[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]63[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]+60[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]104[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I only added Corner Routine from FM Veteran, but only got 7 goals from it, to be honest it doesn`t seems to make any difference.
Tactic is solid on tactic testing league and also on normal game. Got 84 pts when testing Devastator V11 and 91 with Knap updated Dam Busters.

I prefer TFF testing league as it seems the least random one.
 
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table, width: 520, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]WON[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]LST[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]AG[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]GD[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]PTS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]TFF Supernova v2 Balanced + OI[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]48[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]25[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]89[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]47[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]+42[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]87

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
[TABLE="class: cms_table_cms_table, width: 520, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]TACTIC[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]PLD[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]WON[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]DRN[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]LST[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]FOR[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]AG[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]GD[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]PTS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 196, align: center"]Zyndar's Deadly Circle v2 without OI[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, align: center"]48[/TD]
[TD="width: 50, align: center"]33[/TD]
[TD="width: 47, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="width: 40, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, align: center"]137[/TD]
[TD="width: 35, align: center"]53[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: center"]+84[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, align: center"]104

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I forgot to put OI on this one. Got same pts of deadly circle counter v1, with much better GD. Also got the same pts home and away.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

FMBase

Beta

Resources

Back
Top