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Hi guys,
this is my first time here, so hello everybody and sorry for my english.
I have played many FM and never had this huge problem.
I have two tactics: one control, one counter (only some away matches and againts big opponents).

Control tactic description:
Formation: 4-1-2-2-1
G-De
Wb-at Cd-de Cd-de Wb-at
HB-de
Cm-At Cm-at
IF-at If-at
Cf-at

Control, very fluid.
Tempo normal, width wide, defence higher, use offside trap, closing down more, use tighter marking, get stuck in, play out the defence, exploit right and left flank, retain possession, be more expressive, look for overlap, run at the defence, roam from positions.

No player instructions. No opponent instructions.

Counter tactic description
Formation: 4-1-2-2-1
G-De
Fb-Su Cd-de Cd-de Fb-Su
HB-de
Cm-Su Cm-Sup
W-Su W-Su
Cf-Su

Counter, highly structured,

Tempo normal, width narrow, slightly deeper, closing down sometimes, use tighter marking, get stuck in, clear ball to flanks, pass into space, more direct passing, be more disciplined, hit early crosses, dribble less, stick to positions.


I know I am doing something very very wrong because, in my last save with Milan, my results are:

Using control tactic:
0-1 Loss. Some chances (more thant the opponent) but they scored in a counter.
Next match the same
Next match the same but they didn't score (probably because they received a red...)
Next match 1-1 draw. I scored from a penalty and they scored from a cross.

Using counter tactic (complete disaster)
Home loss 1-3. I started with counter, they scored two goals from corner kicks. Changed to control and they scored another goal from a counter. I finally scored from a cross.
Next match started with counter lost 2-1. They scored from a corner kick, changed to control and my team scored from a corner kick. Finally they won with a long shoot.

This are only some examples of what usually happens.

Media prediction 2, now i'm 19.

Using counter tactic the opponent uses to have like 25 shoots and me 5, more or less.
Using control it is 10 me and opponent 4 (more or less)

I want my control tactic:
high possession
pressing
creativity
oportunities
scoring goals
I want my WB to overlap my IF and then cross the ball. Inside the box I'll have my CF, my two CM and, at least, one of my IF. My players are there but crosses are not effective. The always go to the opponent.

I want my counter tactic
Solid and deep defense and if we get the ball fast counter attacks. What happens is a lot of chances for the opponent from eveywhere(long shots, crosses...my GK has a lot of work). In attack, they do what are told (direct passing, fast) and we get some CCC but we don't score.

Could you help me? If additional info needed, just tell me.

Thanks a lot guys.
 
Why is there a need for so many attack duty players in your control tactic? These players will just think of bombing forward once you get the ball. You need a few players on support here and there to link up play and give your team some short passing options.

In your counter tactic, why hit early crosses when there is no 1 in the box? Your CF will be dropping deep to link up play before he gets in the box. When he drops deep, there is no player trying to get into the box as you have 2 wingers who is more likely to hug the touchline(rather than getting into box) and no CM providing runs from deep. I'm also not too sure if you need to have a halfback role when you have 2 normal fullbacks.

You can consider reading these 2 threads on how to create the 2 tactics you want.

The Art of Counter Attacking

The Art of Possession Football
 
You have a massive amount of TIs. Start with minimal or no TIs and add them if it is needed to build your tactic over the course of a couple of games or so.

Looking at that counter tactic (assuming you're looking to play counter attacking and not just safe) you need to know that how you set up, including TIs, will be how you play when a counter attack ISN'T on.
 
Why is there a need for so many attack duty players in your control tactic? These players will just think of bombing forward once you get the ball. You need a few players on support here and there to link up play and give your team some short passing options.

Thinking exactly the same. If you receive goals on counters, you have to know that most of your players are on your opponent's field. But you are not receiving more than one goal per game so your players seem to control really most of the time. Suming up: your problem is not in how many player have to attack, but in how your players seem to be attacking. Quick plays blowing up balls aren't the most effective way to attack if your team is in control. You have to provide patience to your players, slow down tempo, and better opportunities will come. Less than now perhaps, but better ones.
 
Still problems

Hi guys,
i really appreciate your help but, unfortunately, nothing is working...

Control tactic description:

Formation: 4-1-2-2-1
G-De
Wb-at Cd-de Cd-de Wb-at
A-de
Cm-Su Cm-Su
IF-Su If-Su
Cf-at

Control, very fluid, tempo lower, width wide,
defence higher, use offside trap, closing down sometimes, use tighter marking, play out the defence, shorter passing, retain possession, look for overlap.

Counter tactic
Formation: 4-1-4-1
G-De
Wb-Su Cd-de Cd-de Wb-su
A-de
W-su bbm-su cm-su w-su
df-d

Counter, flexible, tempo normal, width balanced, defence normal, closing down sometimes, more direct passing.

My results are:

0-0 away. Using counter. They had more chances. Lucky to draw.
3-3 home.Using control. I had a lot of chances. Really unlucky to win. All 6 goals from crosses.
2-0 away. Using control. Same chances and possession than the opponent. Goals from croses.
1-1 home.
Using control. Same chances and possession than the opponent. Goals from croses.
1-1 home. Using control. The scored from Individual mistake of my Cd. I miss a penalty and score from a corner kick. I had a little more possession and chances.
1-1 away. Using control. Very good match. They scored in their only chance from a cross. I had a lot of chances. I scored from a corner kick. I deserved to win.
6-2 home. Using counter.
Using counter. Although I won, this is exactly what I don't want to happen. If I play counter I want no chances: I want nothing to happen during the match, solid defense and 3 o or 4 counter attack chances. If we are lucky we will score.What happened in this match is that I had more possession and more or less the same chances than the opponent, but my CF scored 4 goals.
1-1 away. Using control. Very bad match. I couldn't beat the worst team in the league. They played second half with 10 men, due to a red card. I created no chances. Neither them, but hey scored from a cross. Me, from a penalty.
1-3 home. Using control. I got two red cards and penalty against min 20 first half… Not bad at all. Same chances and more possession, but…

Any advice?

Thank you very much.
 
Hi guys,
i really appreciate your help but, unfortunately, nothing is working...
What isn't 'working'? What did you think about the advice given? What changes did you make and why?
 
Regarding the control tactic:

* Quit the "very fluid" at first. Only use this when your players are fully adapted to your tactic (a lot of tactic training).
* Now you are receiving more goals than before. Set your defence not so high for a few games and let's see.
* Overlapping: only when your lateral defenders (i don't know the english term for lateral defenders sorry, wing backs perhaps?) are really faster than your opposite's. At least at the beginning.

Sorry, I didn't read your team, which one are you using?

Best regards.
 
Hi,
thank you very much for your help.

I'm playing with Milan. I start a new save everytime I'm fired (10 games more or less).

I changed my tactic again. Now I'm playing 4-1-1-3-1 Control and counter.

Wb-At Cd-De Cd-De Wb-At
HB-de
DLP-su
W-su Am-Su W-su
CF-at

Control higly structured, tempo normal, width balanced, defence normal, closing down sometimes, use tighter marking, play out the defence, shorter passing, retain possession, roam from positions.

Also individual instruction for gk roll it out, distribute to cb fewer risky passes, all in order to retain possession.

Why i did this changes? It seems I had to many TIs and not enough support duty players to link up. I want to retain possesion, short passing. Forget about overlaping because it seems not to work, but I still want crosses from my wide players (now W and Wb).
I changed to normal defensive line because I was conceeding a lot with high line.

Counter tactic: 4-1-1-3-1

Fb-su Cd-De Cd-De Fb-su
HB-de
DLP-su
W-su Am-Su W-su
CF-at

Counter, flexible, slightly deeper. I read in the guide that TI's will be how I play when a counter attack ISN'T on. You also said that, so I believe It must be true, althought It is hard to understand. I set up slightly deeper, because I thought it would the opponent go higher so counterattacks would be easier for me.

This are my results.

1-0 Away. Using control. Goal from a cross. I created only one good chance (from a counter... lol). I had more possession but totally useless. They dominated me with counterattacks and could score more goals.
0-0 Home. Using control. I had a lot of chances but we were unlucky. They played with 10 men min 35 first half red card.
2-1 Home. Using control. Many chances for both. A lot of possession for me (61%). All goals from crosses.
3-0 Away. Using counter. A lot of chances for them, many for me (17-11 more or less). They dominated possession (63%)They scored from 2 crosses and a penalty. I had a couple of good counterattacks.
1-1 Home. Using control. Same chanches and possession for both (10-10 50%). They scored from a counter. Me from a counter. I missed a penalty.
0-3 Away. Using control. Same chances and possession. I scored 2 from a cross and 1 from a counter.
2-2 Home. Using control. 20-10 chances. 60-40 possession. I scored from a long shot and a free kick. They scored from a long shot and a cross. They were playing with 10 men since min 55 (1-1 at that moment)
2-2 away. Using control. 8-12 chances. 46-54 possession. They scored two crosses, me one cross and one through ball.

I see I have a problem with crosses. Now I put my DLP deeper so I play 4-2-0-3-1 and set OPi to D wb M am left and right tight marking always. Is this a good idea? Let's see.

0-3 Home. Using counter. 0 shots on goal for me, 21 for them. 2 goals counter 1 cross. VERY NICE.
2-1 Away. Using control. 14-5 shots, 52-48 possession. 1 goal corner 1 goal through ball i scored from a counter.

And that's it.

My point is that I don't know what the instructions mean and how they affect my players. I read the guides but it's like I'm playing another game.
 
My point is that I don't know what the instructions mean and how they affect my players. I read the guides but it's like I'm playing another game.
If you don't know what the instructions mean, why don't you ask? Why do you keep using instructions that you don't know?

You keep changing tactics, but there doesn't seem to be any plan behind it or if there is, you're not saying so. Are there plans for the tactics that you created and why you chose the roles you did?


Here are a few examples of instructions maybe harming you more than you realise. Just something to think about.

- Your Control tactic has Play Out Of Defence, which shortens passing for all defensive players. Then you also add Shorter Passing, which shortens passing for all players. Then you also add Retain Possession, which shortens passing even more, lowers tempo and reduces passes into space. That's 3x shorter passing. Do you have players that close?

- You say 'forget about overlapping'. You have a natural overlap happening already! The wingbacks will overlap the wingers. Just watch a match?!

- The Counter tactic. Why did you add slightly deeper? A Counter Mentality already has a deep-ish line. Did you need to drop deeper? Were you not inviting too much pressure now?

- Also, you will trigger many more counters if you drop the AM line down to M. The whole point of counter attacking (if that is what you want) is to draw the other team in before counter attacking - countering an attack.


I keep saying this, but rather start with very, very little or no TIs. You can always add them if you see the tactic needs it. The different Mentalities all have their own default settings already, so most of the work is done for you.
 
I'm not too sure why you change your roles. For eg, why 2 wingers instead of your original IFs? Who will be the players getting at the end of the crosses from your wingbacks? Wingers normally hug the touchline.

To echo what's has been said above. Look at your roles again, think about the players who should be your main scorers or providers. Use just a few TIs and keep things simple.
 
41221DMWide: structured, control, shorter passing, clear ball to flanks, play narrower, play deeper, close down more, stay on feet, lower tempo, more disciplined...

GK,2LDd, 2FBs, DMs, 2CMa, 2Wa, AFa
 
Last edited:
41221DMWide: structured, counter, shorter passing, clear ball to flanks, play narrower, play deeper, close down less, stay on feet, lower tempo, more disciplined...

GK,2LDd, 2FBs, DMs, 2CMa, 2Wa, AFa
If you're going to give poor advice, at least provide reasons for giving the advice you are. What you posted isn't helping anyone.
 
Hi all,
thank you very much for your advice, you are helping me a lot.
I started from zero. Forget, for the moment, the counter tactic, and let's focus in control tactic. Step by step.
The tactic
gk-de
cwb-at cd-de cd-de cwb-at
a-de
bbm-su ap-su
if-su if-su
cf-su
control: i want attacking but also safe.
Flexible: no idea why.
Balanced: I was setting to many TIs
slightly higher defence line: I started with higher defence line and use offside trap, but I dropped the line because I was conceeding from counters. Not sure about it.
closing down more I don't want to conceed the possession so high pressure is needed.
play out the defence, exploit the flanks, passing mixed: I want short passing, ball to the flanks, overlaping, and crosses. Too many short pass orders made my tactic too predictable so i set passing directness mixed.
low crosses. I found them more effective.

My 11 men: Diego lopez, de sciglio, zapata, romagnoli, antonelli, de jong, poli, montolivo, cerci, bacca, balotelli.
What I want:
- Solid defence. When attacking 3 guys close the defence and are supposed to stop counters (CDs and A). When deffending, all team should help (support duties on offensive players)
- Control mentality. Offensive but safe.
- Short passing, exploit flanks, and crosses. When we hit a cross, we are supposed to have 4-5 guys inside or near the box to finish.
 
Sorry forgot the conclusions:

- I completed a season and ended 7 with milan. Not good but not a disaster neither.
- Defence is not a disaster, but not good enough. I conceed 1,1 goals per game. The main problem is that the opponent is very effective. Most of the games they have less than 7-8 shots and 0 or 1 ccc, but score 1. It's like no matter how the game goes i conceed 1, so i need 2 goals to win. Do you think I have a problem with my gk? Should I change to sk-su, for instance?
- cwb seem to be a good decision. They overlap without setting the TI. The problem is that the crosses go to the opponent. This improved when i changed to lower crosses (scored more) but not enough.
- I started with higher defence line and use offside trap, but I dropped the line because I was conceeding from counters. Not sure about it.
- I'm not sure if i should change A-de to a HB-de because HB may help more de CD. Not sure.
- AP and BBM should be a good option? Ap should link up game with short passes, and BBM is supposed to help in defence and finishing in the box. I'm not sure if they are doing well. The ball goes quickly to the flanks and then we cross so they don't participate in the game too much.
- The combination of IF and CWB is good, as i explained above.
-. We usually have like 15-20 shots and 2-3 ccc, but we only score 1 goal (a lot of 1-1 draws). I've read that with this tactic false 9 or dlf suit better thant a Cf, but the thing is that i want my striker to be the main scorer and the main destination of my crosses, and a false 9 or DLF wouldn't do that. On the other hand, my bbm would have more space. Not sure.
- To sum up: It seems we control the game, but we are losing in the boxes.
 
i have edited and corrected my previous post...should be fine now
 
If you want your whole team to defend, your team should have high workrate. Players like Cerci and Balotelli probably shouldn't fit into your team if you want that whole team defending style.

Having managed Milan, I find that Cerci is a 1 trick pony as he has avoid using weaker foot. He will always just cut in and shoot because of his low workrate and teamwork. Same for Balotelli if you give him too much creativity(a role like CF) as he has shoot from distance ppm. If I'm not wrong, I do believe alot of your shots could be long shots because of players like Monto, Balotelli and Cerci.

Lastly, I will talk abit about your setup. The roles are ok although I will consider using 1 IF(att) just to get him make his forward run into the box faster. When using TIs like higher closing down and etc to win the ball back quicker and getting more possession, there are also cons to it. A direct ball over the top could just slice open your defence. You have to consider if that's what you are willing to risk in trying to win the ball back asap.

And you mentioned your AP and B2B not doing much, that's because you are using the exploiting the flanks. The TIs will focus your attack down the flanks instead and the centre players will hold their position more.
 
If you want your whole team to defend, your team should have high workrate. Players like Cerci and Balotelli probably shouldn't fit into your team if you want that whole team defending style.

Having managed Milan, I find that Cerci is a 1 trick pony as he has avoid using weaker foot. He will always just cut in and shoot because of his low workrate and teamwork. Same for Balotelli if you give him too much creativity(a role like CF) as he has shoot from distance ppm. If I'm not wrong, I do believe alot of your shots could be long shots because of players like Monto, Balotelli and Cerci.

Lastly, I will talk abit about your setup. The roles are ok although I will consider using 1 IF(att) just to get him make his forward run into the box faster. When using TIs like higher closing down and etc to win the ball back quicker and getting more possession, there are also cons to it. A direct ball over the top could just slice open your defence. You have to consider if that's what you are willing to risk in trying to win the ball back asap.

And you mentioned your AP and B2B not doing much, that's because you are using the exploiting the flanks. The TIs will focus your attack down the flanks instead and the centre players will hold their position more.

Hi,
My if are hardly ever shooting from distance. Actually, I was thinking about setting the individual instruction to shoot more often. My shots are mainly finishing crosses.
I see in my stats: headers won always below 50%. I think this is a problem but don't know exactly how affects my team and how could i solve it. Any ideas?
 
In FM 2016, there are few tactical situations that matters:
1. Where are you playing. The matches played at home differ from away games.
2. Your team are stronger, weaker or the same as your opponent.

If your team plays at home and is it the stronger team, then you should play attack or control. If you play at home and you're the weaker team, you should play standard or counter.

If your team plays away and it is the strongest team, then you can play control, attack or standard. If you play away and you are the weaker team, then you can play counter or defend.

Now, one of the biggest mistake, when you play control, is to tick "retain possession", that will make your team to pass and play a sterile game. You will force the opponent to defend with a lot of players, the box will be crowded by both teams and will be difficult to score. In this case you should deselect "retain possession", anyway goals win games in football, not possession, then you should tick "pass into space" to force your players to find holes in defense. But if the box is too crowded you will not find more space. To force the opposition to leave their box and play the ball you should lower the "closing down". Then you will find space.
 
Hi all,

I've finally managed to end 2 with milan but...

There are two options: i'm completely stupid or the game is completely random (and stupid).

I used the following tactic and ended 2:

1-4-2-0-3-1
gk
cwb-at cd-de cd-de cwb-at
bwm-de dlp-su
w-su ss-a w-su
cf-su

control, flexible, normal, balanced, normal, sometimes, play out the defence, shorter passing, retain possession, low crosses.

Results were completely stupid:
losing possession every match
first 20 mins 1 or 2 goals down
a lot of chances stupidly missed
They scoring all time with stupid crosses.


I started a new save and i'm using the following:

1-4-0-4-0-2

gk
fb-at cd-de cd-de fb-at
w-su cm-de cm-su w-su
ss-at dlf-su

control,very fluid, normal, balanced, normal, sometimes, play out the defence, mixed, roam from positions.

According to the guide this tactic should be unbeatable (at least decent). I explain why:

gk
fb-at combined with w-su: the guide says it is a good combination.
cd-de: the same
cm-de cm-su: sitter and runner
striker combination: false 9 false 10

Control: attacking but safe
very fluid: specialist and generic player roles
normal,balanced, normal, sometimes: "do it simply" "too many instructions"
play out the defence: control possession
mixed: too many short passing orders make tactic predictable.
roam from positions: "base your attacking chances around multiple routes of attack to prevent uni-focal tactics being rendered useless by the opposition"


The real thing is that I'm consistently losing matches, conceeding at least 2 goals every match.
I let my assistant do everything (tassotti)


They score from everywhere: corners, free kicks, long shots, counter, crosses... THere is no pattern, just conceeding and conceeding. And of course, not scoring.

So, as I said before, two options: I'm completely stupid or the game is random.
 
What guide are you referring to?

A few things though:

- Guides are guides. They're not plug and play. They're not foolproof. They're to help people to generally set up something half decent. Saying that your tactic should be unbeatable is completely missing the point.

- Control is attacking. It's not safe. Not as attacking as Attacking, but still. It is the 2nd most attacking/aggressive of the 'normal' Mentalities.

- In both tactics, you're using an attacking mentality that takes risks. In both tactics you choose to have BOTH fullbacks bombing forward. Normally you'd have one fullback bombing and a holding midfielder covering the defence on that side, just in case of a quick break down the middle or that side. You have 2 attacking fullbacks, but 1 midfielder covering BOTH flanks. It's risky.

- You insist on having Play Out Of Defence in both. Have you tried using the tactic without it? Control already has fairly short passing at the back as default anyway, with fairly direct passing up front.

- Can you explain why you chose Retain Possession in the first tactic and what that instruction does?

- In the last tactic you claim to have a 4-4-2, but you have an SS up front, which is impossible.


Again though, you're posting random tactics. You give no indication as to why you chose the roles and duties you did, except that 'the guide said so'. Why did you choose the roles you did? What was the plan? There had to have been one if you chose these roles and duties complete with TIs.

For your first tactic you complain that:
Results were completely stupid:
losing possession every match
first 20 mins 1 or 2 goals down
a lot of chances stupidly missed
They scoring all time with stupid crosses.
How are you meant to keep possession? Who's keeping the possession? You have no one at the back. The DLP who, being a playmaker, will get the ball often and his only options are ahead of him. From there, the SS/A will bomb forward, the DLF will at the very least look sideways to pass and the wingers and wingbacks, in keeping with their role, will dribble and cross. It is a top heavy formation with an attacking mentality - they will be attacking.

I've explained that you're too open at the back

I haven't seen examples of the chances, so I can't comment here, but looking at this, you only have 2 players getting close to the box and you seem very reliant on crosses.

That's obvious. You don't have the flanks protected at all.

Then, based on this:
I let my assistant do everything (tassotti)
Are you not watching games? Please tell me I understood that wrong.
 
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