The Arsenal Thread

[fuelledbypassion]

So techinically speaking you are basically saying that even though you have had a squad capable of winning the title you have not done so for the past how many ever years as you dont have a solid experienced line-up to fall back on... well Wenger has had 12 transfer windows to correct that and I very much doubt you guys have literally no money to spend tbh, you may not be able to spend as much as Chelsea or City do but I am sure you do have cash in hand to buy quality players and then there is the great lure of Arsenal Football Club itself

---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------





I only remember saying SAF was a great manager and very few people can be considered great managers... Mourinho is a great manager considering he took FC Porto to the CL Title, Inter Milan to a Treble, Chelsea to back-to-back Premiere League titles and I am sure if he stayed on he would have conquered Europe too and he took Real Madrid to the Kings Cup beating the supposedly 'best ever side this world has ever seen' in a one-off game and according to me also should have beaten them in the CL Semi-Finals this season

You can argue that he had cash to spend but that does not make his achievements any less impressive, u still need to bring players together and form a team


To me in this modern era there are very few managers I would call great... SAF and Mourinho will reside at the top of my list

You do realise that you are comparing Wenger to the most successful manager of all time, right? He's bound to come off in a negative light. I rate Wenger highly, but he obviously has his flaws, just like every other manager. The fact is though, if SAF continued to manage for 6 years and won nothing, he'd still be regarded by many as the best ever manager to grace the game. I think your negating Wenger's past achievements far too easily, Wenger made Arsenal a massive club again, he is a great manager and is a victim of his own success right now.

This should make for interesting reading. I generally agree with most of the football related lists I read from the sunday times, and this one puts Wenger ahead of Mourinho:

The top 50 managers of all time | Football - Times Online

EDIT: Just realised how dated it was. Still though, Wenger is up there ahead of Sacchi, who was clearly a great manager

 

[Sulsey]

So techinically speaking you are basically saying that even though you have had a squad capable of winning the title you have not done so for the past how many ever years as you dont have a solid experienced line-up to fall back on... well Wenger has had 12 transfer windows to correct that and I very much doubt you guys have literally no money to spend tbh, you may not be able to spend as much as Chelsea or City do but I am sure you do have cash in hand to buy quality players and then there is the great lure of Arsenal Football Club itself

---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------





I only remember saying SAF was a great manager and very few people can be considered great managers... Mourinho is a great manager considering he took FC Porto to the CL Title, Inter Milan to a Treble, Chelsea to back-to-back Premiere League titles and I am sure if he stayed on he would have conquered Europe too and he took Real Madrid to the Kings Cup beating the supposedly 'best ever side this world has ever seen' in a one-off game and according to me also should have beaten them in the CL Semi-Finals this season

You can argue that he had cash to spend but that does not make his achievements any less impressive, u still need to bring players together and form a team


To me in this modern era there are very few managers I would call great... SAF and Mourinho will reside at the top of my list

You are so narrow minded it's unbelievable. Do you not understand the concept of Business studies and Economics. To create a viable business, this business needs to be self sufficient. In regards to your club, it's essentially like saying there is a "money-man" behind Tescoes propping up their balance sheet at the end of the financial year. No, there isn't, football teams are a business and Arsenal wanted to create a viable business that makes a profit. The plan was put in place so that they could move into this self-sufficient stadium to increase their revenue in the long run. They have sold some of the Highbury flats and are now reaping some of the benefits from this, with a good financial position.
If you open up that brain of yours and try to understand the business side of football, then you will understand a bit more as to what Arsenal were/are trying to do.
There is no doubt in my mind however, that you will reply to this post in a very narrow-minded fashion, as per-usual.

 

[Average Joe]

Where would Chelsea be without Abramovich

I think Arsenal are doing well enough to keep up in the competitions without the amount of spending that Chelsea, United and City have been doing.

RVP was injured for a fair amount last season, and he is easily one of their best players

 

[fuelledbypassion]

To be fair, Arsenal have been very unlucky with injuries in recent seasons. I'm quite sure they would have won a least one trophy last season if it weren't for injuries, especially the bad Vermaelen and Ramsey set backs. If their key players a) Stay at the club and, b) stay injury free, Arsenal will be a real force next year

 

[GodCubed]

To be fair, Arsenal have been very unlucky with injuries in recent seasons. I'm quite sure they would have won a least one trophy last season if it weren't for injuries, especially the bad Vermaelen and Ramsey set backs. If their key players a) Stay at the club and, b) stay injury free, Arsenal will be a real force next year

Couple of big ifs there. RvP and Fabregas are wobbling dangerously on the edge of being classed "injury prone" if they're not already, and so are players like Gibbs. Vermaelen back would be a huge boon for Arsenal however.

 

[Alcaraz]

You are so narrow minded it's unbelievable. Do you not understand the concept of Business studies and Economics. To create a viable business, this business needs to be self sufficient. In regards to your club, it's essentially like saying there is a "money-man" behind Tescoes propping up their balance sheet at the end of the financial year. No, there isn't, football teams are a business and Arsenal wanted to create a viable business that makes a profit. The plan was put in place so that they could move into this self-sufficient stadium to increase their revenue in the long run. They have sold some of the Highbury flats and are now reaping some of the benefits from this, with a good financial position.
If you open up that brain of yours and try to understand the business side of football, then you will understand a bit more as to what Arsenal were/are trying to do.
There is no doubt in my mind however, that you will reply to this post in a very narrow-minded fashion, as per-usual.

again you go on about something completely unrelated to our debate, we are debating whether Wenger is a great manager or not... not whether ur business model is better than ours and again stop acting like you dont have cash to spend


PS: I would appreciate if you can keep your insults out of this debate, thought this was mean to be good-natured

---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

You do realise that you are comparing Wenger to the most successful manager of all time, right? He's bound to come off in a negative light. I rate Wenger highly, but he obviously has his flaws, just like every other manager. The fact is though, if SAF continued to manage for 6 years and won nothing, he'd still be regarded by many as the best ever manager to grace the game. I think your negating Wenger's past achievements far too easily, Wenger made Arsenal a massive club again, he is a great manager and is a victim of his own success right now.

This should make for interesting reading. I generally agree with most of the football related lists I read from the sunday times, and this one puts Wenger ahead of Mourinho:

The top 50 managers of all time | Football - Times Online

EDIT: Just realised how dated it was. Still though, Wenger is up there ahead of Sacchi, who was clearly a great manager

There are not many managers I can compare him to tbh... SAF and Wenger are the only 2 managers who have been managing top clubs in England for a extended period of time and I dont see why Wenger cannot be as successfull as SAF considering he has as good a team as any in the League

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 PM ----------

Where would Chelsea be without Abramovich

I think Arsenal are doing well enough to keep up in the competitions without the amount of spending that Chelsea, United and City have been doing.

RVP was injured for a fair amount last season, and he is easily one of their best players

United have hardly done much spending tbh... not as much as Chelsea or City anyways so thats why i compare those 2 clubs

 

[Sulsey]

again you go on about something completely unrelated to our debate, we are debating whether Wenger is a great manager or not... not whether ur business model is better than ours and again stop acting like you dont have cash to spend


PS: I would appreciate if you can keep your insults out of this debate, thought this was mean to be good-natured

---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------




There are not many managers I can compare him to tbh... SAF and Wenger are the only 2 managers who have been managing top clubs in England for a extended period of time and I dont see why Wenger cannot be as successfull as SAF considering he has as good a team as any in the League

This is what I mean, how would you know if Wenger had "cash" to spend or not. Are you a member of the financial side of the Arsenal back-room team?

Please fill me in on the figures regarding Arsenal's finances.

That has everything to do with regards to Wenger as a manager.

 

[Alcaraz]

This is what I mean, how would you know if Wenger had "cash" to spend or not. Are you a member of the financial side of the Arsenal back-room team?

Please fill me in on the figures regarding Arsenal's finances.

That has everything to do with regards to Wenger as a manager.

oh I forgot Wenger has to sell before he buys


Your getting me all wrong, I never mentioned that Wenger can outbid the likes of City or Chelsea, all I mentioned was that all of you keep saying that Wenger has had his trophy drought cos he does not have money to spend which is clearly not true as he seems to be buying a new 16 year old every fortnight and he has splashed out on the likes of Nasri and Arshavin which imply that he does have cash to spend and its not like he has to sell before he can buy...

 

[Sulsey]

I'm not sure if these figures are correct, quick Google search.

This is the net spend from the 2004-2009 period.
Arsenal = -£26,270,000
Spurs = +£105,450,000
Liverpool = +£110,460,000
Man Utd's = +£93,400,000

 

[Average Joe]

Business model talk etc is completely relevant to management. Ferguson has built his United team time and time again. Chelsea got the money and built a class team, now they are aging and the cycle of rebuilding needs to happen as their best players are over 30 (if they kept a consistant manager would Chelsea of gone this far without getting future Lampards and Terry's? Hard to say.)

Ferguson is the master of rejuvinating his team. Wenger is trying, but he has had less money available to splash than Ferguson has had.

 

[Sulsey]

oh I forgot Wenger has to sell before he buys


Your getting me all wrong, I never mentioned that Wenger can outbid the likes of City or Chelsea, all I mentioned was that all of you keep saying that Wenger has had his trophy drought cos he does not have money to spend which is clearly not true as he seems to be buying a new 16 year old every fortnight and he has splashed out on the likes of Nasri and Arshavin which imply that he does have cash to spend and its not like he has to sell before he can buy...

Having a debatable argument with you is like arguing with a brick wall and is a complete waste of my time.

 

[Alcaraz]

Business model talk etc is completely relevant to management. Ferguson has built his United team time and time again. Chelsea got the money and built a class team, now they are aging and the cycle of rebuilding needs to happen as their best players are over 30 (if they kept a consistant manager would Chelsea of gone this far without getting future Lampards and Terry's? Hard to say.)

Ferguson is the master of rejuvinating his team. Wenger is trying, but he has had less money available to splash than Ferguson has had.

completely agree with this, he has less cash but some of the posts by Arsenal fans will make u seem he has no cash to spend... He has bought the likes of Nasri, Arshavin and Chamakh recently but I very much doubt there is too much difference between how much Fergie can spend and how much Wenger can spend , obviously im talking out of my **** on this end but the amount they have each spend in the last few summers seems to be within good range of each other

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

Having a debatable argument with you is like arguing with a brick wall and is a complete waste of my time.

you are not going to be missed, I rather have a debate with someone who can keep insults out of the way and provide logic

 

[sunilvk7]

Lol this started with completely different point now it has taken so many turns.

Well according to Alcarez SAF and Jose are the only great managers so i can understand when he says Wenger is not great manager.

But for me he is always second best manager in the PL era only behind SAF.

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Couple of big ifs there. RvP and Fabregas are wobbling dangerously on the edge of being classed "injury prone" if they're not already, and so are players like Gibbs. Vermaelen back would be a huge boon for Arsenal however.

I'd already class RVP as injury prone personally, Fabregas less so. The problem will be if Cesc leaves; there is no one available at that price that could immediately replace him, and it would be a massive ask for Ramsey to step into his shoes. I don't recall Arsenal being linked to any like-for-like replacements yet, but surely it is something at the forefront of their thoughts right now?

 

[Average Joe]

As far as I remember Nasri was about 12 mil (?? correct if wrong) and Arshavin about 15-17 mil? Pretty sure Chamakh was free so thats invalid.

Not massive spendings, specially seeing how Nasri is top class and Arshavin is good (on and off quality)

 

[Alcaraz]

Lol this started with completely different point now it has taken so many turns.

Well according to Alcarez SAF and Jose are the only great managers so i can understand when he says Wenger is not great manager.

But for me he is always second best manager in the PL era only behind SAF.

lol exactly, all i started out with was debating whether Wenger is a great manager and I have since been bombarded by posts on how Wenger has no money to spend and how Chelsea will die after 5 years...

To me Wenger cannot be mentioned in the same breath as SAF, if you consider Wenger a great manager then SAF is surely alot more


Why did I compare both of them?

1. Both of them have managed Top Clubs in England for a considerable amount of time

2. Both of them have had to contend with the free spending shown by Chelsea and City

3. Both of them are restrained in their own different ways in the transfer market


The major difference between SAF and Wenger is:

1. SAF has created a brilliant Youth Set-Up and still has not had a trophy drought in the modern era, some would say his Set-Up is better than Arsenal

2. SAF has had to contend with losing his star players too just like Wenger yet he has not faltered

3. SAF has moulded the core of his team by using his very own Youth players and has won the Double, remember Beckham, Giggs and Scholes

 

[fuelledbypassion]

completely agree with this, he has less cash but some of the posts by Arsenal fans will make u seem he has no cash to spend... He has bought the likes of Nasri, Arshavin and Chamakh recently but I very much doubt there is too much difference between how much Fergie can spend and how much Wenger can spend , obviously im talking out of my **** on this end but the amount they have each spend in the last few summers seems to be within good range of each other

I'm quite sure that United have a massive transfer kitty this window, more than Arsenal have. Since the premier league began, many clubs have spent more than Arsenal. Should the likes of Bruce, Moyes and Redknapp have gone already?

 

[Alcaraz]

I'm quite sure that United have a massive transfer kitty this window, more than Arsenal have. Since the premier league began, many clubs have spent more than Arsenal. Should the likes of Bruce, Moyes and Redknapp have gone already?

aye this window it seems like Man Utd do have a huge transfer kitty... and no the likes of Moyes, Redknapp and Bruce should not have gone cos they did the best with the squad they had which was certainly never capable of winning trophies while Wenger does have a squad capable of doing just that yet he has not won any

 

[Average Joe]

aye this window it seems like Man Utd do have a huge transfer kitty... and no the likes of Moyes, Redknapp and Bruce should not have gone cos they did the best with the squad they had which was certainly never capable of winning trophies while Wenger does have a squad capable of doing just that yet he has not won any

With his first team, un-injured for a season maybe. I just dont think they have a good enough back up for RVP (or Vermalen or Fabregas)

 

[Alcaraz]

With his first team, un-injured for a season maybe. I just dont think they have a good enough back up for RVP (or Vermalen or Fabregas)

Injuries are part and parcel of the game mate, every manager contends with them, Chelsea this season lost Drogba and Lamps for the first half of the season yet we managed a 2nd placed finish

And if they dont have a good back-up for RVP, surely Wenger should realise this by now