Swapping grumpy player who's lost his drive and commitment for best player of previous season should be no brainer. Chelsea are gambling here, United wouldn't be. Worst case scenario I can think of for United is that Rooney does improve, and even then it sort of evens out.
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Another thing worth pointing out is that even Mourinho's famous man management can't contain 4 strikers who all want to play. Torres is in fight to the death for a place in the World Cup squad and I can practically guarantee you he will be out for blood if he doesn't get enough game time. So you'd need to quickly offload someone (Demba Ba, I guess?)
When was the last time we actually played with 2 old school, out and out wingers? Unless I'm somehow missing someone obvious, Giggs was our last proper left footed winger, for the rest of the time we've had 1 out and out winger, and another right footed player on the left. And if we play Shinji in the 10 role, who else is going to play on the left. In fact, Rooney would most likely still be here anyway, so he's not getting a clear shot at that role anyway with him around. So that leaves us with Welbeck who plays on the left, who isn't a winger. Young, who will do a step over, cut back onto his right and cross, Shinji who apparently isn't a winger and Januzaj, who isn't a winger. So we're going to turn down Mata because he's not a winger, to play someone who's not a winger instead?
Secondly, arguably our best team of the last decade was a fluid 4-3-3 with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez up front. Ronaldo was the only winger there, but even then, he played with a free role and license to roam. We have always had most of our creative threat come from the wings, we have not however always played with wingers in the true sense of the word, to turn down a player of Mata's quality because he doesn't fit this description would be idiotic.
Kagawa has played outstandingly well for Japan from the left, and arguably his best game in a United shirt so far has come from the left, there's no evidence anywhere that he's ineffective playing there. I'd argue that a player like Mata who wants to play like Shinji does would benefit his form, and he'll find it a lot easier to link up with him and drift centrally.
Lastly, we'd get a younger player, in better form, on lesser wages possibly with cash thrown in as well, in return for a player who seemingly doesn't want to be here and hasn't come close to justifying his bumper contract in a long time.
I am hoping with Willian most likely coming in we will see Demba and Moses leave (am a fan of victor but with all the attacking talent in our squad no point him wasting his talent sitting on the bench or in the stands) and Rooney coming in with Mata staying.
Yeaaaaaaaaaaah, that wont happen.
And then maybe you'll come home with Mila Kunis and Natalie Portman re-enacting their Black Swan scene on your bed.
Not happening, they're busy this week - I'm taking them with my private jet to shoot photos of Grand Canyon.
I said solid wingers, not out and out wingers, completely different. It would be like becoming Manchester City of last season or the season before..... a lot of creativity with no plan B. Fact of the matter is Nani/ Young (well possibly), Zaha/ Ronaldo/ Giggs (in his earlier days obviously)/ Valencia..... all offer United great width.... whether Ronaldo has a free role or Young decides to cut inside is irrelevant.
Selling Rooney would be like going here you are have a player that has won so many trophies for us and needs to prove a point to the best man-manager arguably the game has ever seen.
In return we would get a great player (undeniably), which would in my view, completely not be right for the United style. Oh and on Kagawa..... last season he was generally poor by his standards. Look at what he done at Dortmund then lets get back to this point. Having his best game on the left at United (arguably) thus far doesn't mean it's the right thing to do as a permanent solution.
If we didn't have Kagawa then I'd agree on Mata, but because we do we shouldn't go for it.
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Nick Chelsea
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Has Willian played as a striker before? Or he's always been an AM? Anyone?
Just ignore everything I said?
I never denied we didn't have wingers who gave us width, I said we have always had players on the right who have given us width, my point was about the left, which you ignored. None of our current crop will give us any more width than Kagawa would, so what exactly is your argument about width?
And keeping Rooney and turning down Mata is cutting your nose to spite your face. He's not happy, overpaid and out of form. Look at the reaction of Chelsea fans, most seem horrified that they're considering letting Mata go in return for Rooney. You're literally the only United fan I've seen who has even needed to think about whether we should be turning down a Mata exchange for Rooney. Says it all.
Kagawa didn't perform to his standards in a central or wide role last season, as he admits. It's a problem with adaptation and injuries, not positional. As I said, go watch him play for Japan then come back and tell me we're wasting him there.
Wait are you saying Mata isn't solid on the wings because that's where Jose wants him and he was excellent in a wing role under AVB, even if he did tend to drift around to pick up the ball.
[video=youtube;OWb1vd-h_ts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWb1vd-h_ts[/video]
Dude... come off it.... there is a youtube video for everything out there you want. Mata and Kagawa in the same side isn't for me and I don't think it would work under Moyes.
Joel.... I didn't ignore everything you said... but you made a huge post on about out and out wingers even though I never used that term. So what do you want me to do? Anyway.... we'll agree to disagree because this would be something that would go on for pages and pages. It won't even happen anyway, so we won't even see whether it does or doesn't work.
I'm sure when Chelsea played them in CL he had a free role (similar to that of Messi). I think he could play up top though.