The Chelsea Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ramires
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 35K
  • Views Views 3M
Athe~ said:
Please. 50m for an off-form striker in Jan, forcing the manager to alter his plans for pretty much the rest of the season? It wasn't Carlo's call, I'm pretty sure of that.
Click to expand...

The season was hardly going swimmingly before Torres/Luiz came in, if Carlo stuck with Drogba I doubt Chelsea would have finished any higher as we've seen from Drogba this season. He's past his best and it was time to bring in the guy who won Euro 08 for Spain and has been one of the top 3 players in the Premiership for the past 4 years, not a bad buy for the club at all. Maybe not for Carlo but for the future of the club Torres was a great signing, if Chelsea didn't pay 50 million Real Madrid certainly would have if they had the chance. Torres is still revered by the top clubs in world football, can't write him off after a bad 6-8 month patch of a career I mean just look at Rooney or Gomez.
 
Jamie. said:
I'd genuinely rather win 2-0 with Torres than 4-0 with a stumbling Drogba.

Mata's finally bedding in, if AVB actually goes with a 4-2-3-1 I have no doubt he will do even better with Torres than he would with Drogba.

Saying all of this, praising the display so far, Wolves have lost something like 6 games in a row and although they did beat United last season they are a fairly average team all things considered.

But then so were Genk and Chelsea only managed a 1-1 draw, progress to a degree but like I said as long as Drogba is on that team sheet the progress long term will always be hindered.

If this ploy with Torres is in some way Andre taking the pressure off of him by leaving him out of the spotlight for a few games, well I don't think it does that at all. I think it puts even more pressure on him, you can tell by his warm up that he's not 100% focused and motivated coming off the bench.

This is genuinely the first period in Torres' career really where he is being questioned so severely and in such an unrelenting way, he's always been the undisputed CF at a club. If Torres' career shows us one thing it's that if you give him game time and self belief that he is your number one choice he will come good for you. Treating him like this is a huge risk and in my opinion completely unnecessary but it's a gamble AVB is taking to try and provoke a reaction from Torres and get him motivated to retake that no.9 spot I suppose.
Click to expand...

Take a look back through Torres career, he always plays at his best with close support. Its not suprise that once he and gerrard started picking up injuries he started to suffer. At Chelsea he still doesnt get close support (4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 is what you want)
 
Jamie. said:
The season was hardly going swimmingly before Torres/Luiz came in, if Carlo stuck with Drogba I doubt Chelsea would have finished any higher as we've seen from Drogba this season. He's past his best and it was time to bring in the guy who won Euro 08 for Spain and has been one of the top 3 players in the Premiership for the past 4 years, not a bad buy for the club at all. Maybe not for Carlo but for the future of the club Torres was a great signing, if Chelsea didn't pay 50 million Real Madrid certainly would have if they had the chance. Torres is still revered by the top clubs in world football, can't write him off after a bad 6-8 month patch of a career I mean just look at Rooney or Gomez.
Click to expand...

Torres won Euro 08 for Spain? You're joking, right? Sure, he scored in the final, but that about all he did in the entire competition... using that logic Obafemi Martins won the CC for Brum. I'm not taking a swing at Torres the player (Not here at least), but at Torres the transfer. The season wasn't going well but Torres hardly helped, if anything it forced Carlo to alter his plans. Of course Roman expected Torres to be of help, but he clearly did it without consulting with the manager - Granted, he was probably thinking of sacking him already - and it was pretty clear throughout the final months of the season. Whether you like it or not, he's been around for almost a year and he hasn't done much at all, he's still a good player but he's also flopped, be it due to lack of confidence or managerial decisions (Or both), and he's going to have a lot to do if wants to live up to expectations.

Also, Real would never buy Torres nor would he go to Real, you can bet on that. If you're just using it as an example, my apologies.
 
Joel` said:
The first six months? Not so well. The next 5 years? We haven't discovered how to read the future yet.
Click to expand...

Well, we're almost a year in and it doesn't look like it's gonna change unless there's some big change coming.
 
Athe~ said:
Well, we're almost a year in and it doesn't look like it's gonna change unless there's some big change coming.
Click to expand...

Hardly surprising when he's playing in a team built around Drogba, when he's a completely different player to Drogba. Judge him when AVB's given time to change the squad to suit.
 
Athe~ said:
Well, we're almost a year in and it doesn't look like it's gonna change unless there's some big change coming.
Click to expand...
Yes... becuase the team is still mostly mourinho's functional side, and requires change... which you know, takes time and signings
 
Athe~ said:
Torres won Euro 08 for Spain? You're joking, right? Sure, he scored in the final, but that about all he did in the entire competition... using that logic Obafemi Martins won the CC for Brum. I'm not taking a swing at Torres the player (Not here at least), but at Torres the transfer. The season wasn't going well but Torres hardly helped, if anything it forced Carlo to alter his plans. Of course Roman expected Torres to be of help, but he clearly did it without consulting with the manager - Granted, he was probably thinking of sacking him already - and it was pretty clear throughout the final months of the season. Whether you like it or not, he's been around for almost a year and he hasn't done much at all, he's still a good player but he's also flopped, be it due to lack of confidence or managerial decisions (Or both), and he's going to have a lot to do if wants to live up to expectations.

Also, Real would never buy Torres nor would he go to Real, you can bet on that. If you're just using it as an example, my apologies.
Click to expand...

Just an example of the calibre of club that would but him, that's a bit harsh on Torres on the Euro point. He was man of the match in the final, had a fantastic tournament and scored the only - winning - goal in the final. Of course he didn't do it by himself but after that tournament he was arguably the best striker in world football.

Made a lot of sense in the club buying him, if you write off the tail end of last season like we do with most January signings then he hasn't started this season all that badly. He was clearly getting better game by game, the red card came and it set him back no doubt about it but that's no excuse to drop the long term plan. Drogba's red card vs QPR was far worse and AVB still persists with him so I don't see why we can't wait until the end of his first full season before we start drawing judgements on him that's all.
 
Joel` said:
Hardly surprising when he's playing in a team built around Drogba, when he's a completely different player to Drogba. Judge him when AVB's given time to change the squad to suit.
Click to expand...

Mike. said:
Yes... becuase the team is still mostly mourinho's functional side, and requires change... which you know, takes time and signings
Click to expand...

Firt of all, when was the last time a Chelsea manager had time? And secondly, why splash out on a player who's not going to suit your current squad? It was a vanity buy by Roman and so far it's been a costly one.

Jamie. said:
Just an example of the calibre of club that would but him, that's a bit harsh on Torres on the Euro point. He was man of the match in the final, had a fantastic tournament and scored the only - winning - goal in the final. Of course he didn't do it by himself but after that tournament he was arguably the best striker in world football.

Made a lot of sense in the club buying him, if you write off the tail end of last season like we do with most January signings then he hasn't started this season all that badly. He was clearly getting better game by game, the red card came and it set him back no doubt about it but that's no excuse to drop the long term plan. Drogba's red card vs QPR was far worse and AVB still persists with him so I don't see why we can't wait until the end of his first full season before we start drawing judgements on him that's all.
Click to expand...

I just can't agree about it making sense. Once more, I'm not saying he's a bad player (Although I must admit to mocking Chelsea fans because of his failure), but he was off form and as you've pointed out he's not suited to Chelsea's past nor current style of play. If he had been brough in with time to sign other players maybe the story would be a different one. Furthermore, the new manager for the season was brought in with little time to get new players which makes it all the more retarded. As far as I'm concerned it was a rash buy that hasn't paid out.
 
Athe~ said:
Firt of all, when was the last time a Chelsea manager had time? And secondly, why splash out on a player who's not going to suit your current squad? It was a vanity buy by Roman and so far it's been a costly one.



I just can't agree about it making sense. Once more, I'm not saying he's a bad player (Although I must admit to mocking Chelsea fans because of his failure), but he was off form and as you've pointed out he's not suited to Chelsea's past nor current style of play. If he had been brough in with time to sign other players maybe the story would be a different one. Furthermore, the new manager for the season was brought in with little time to get new players which makes it all the more retarded. As far as I'm concerned it was a rash buy that hasn't paid out.
Click to expand...

Because half of Chelsea's squad is past it? Because Roman wants a change in style of football? If you're going to change, what better time to do it, than when your whole squad needs rejuvenating, and you buy a striker to spearhead the new era? Vanity or not, it makes sense. And the fact that they paid £13m in compensation just to take AVB would be a strong indicator that they're not going to be so trigger happy and are building for stability.
 
Athe~ said:
And secondly, why splash out on a player who's not going to suit your current squad?
Click to expand...

Well if you don't then your style of play will never change.

Torres played really well that 15 mins he had; I can't believe he didn't start, or at LEAST 30 mins. Quite a good performance though.
 
Joel` said:
Because half of Chelsea's squad is past it? Because Roman wants a change in style of football? If you're going to change, what better time to do it, than when your whole squad needs rejuvenating, and you buy a striker to spearhead the new era? Vanity or not, it makes sense. And the fact that they paid £13m in compensation just to take AVB would be a strong indicator that they're not going to be so trigger happy and are building for stability.
Click to expand...

This. It actually makes a lot of sense.
 
Joel` said:
Because half of Chelsea's squad is past it? Because Roman wants a change in style of football? If you're going to change, what better time to do it, than when your whole squad needs rejuvenating, and you buy a striker to spearhead the new era? Vanity or not, it makes sense. And the fact that they paid £13m in compensation just to take AVB would be a strong indicator that they're not going to be so trigger happy and are building for stability.
Click to expand...

In JANUARY? You decide to change midway through a season? Seriously?
 
Mike. said:
Yes, since thats when he was availaible. note also the luiz signing.
Click to expand...

Torres would've been available in the summer as well, and even if he wasn't, 50m will still get you plenty of good strikers.

Anyways, we clearly aren't going to agree here, so we might as well drop the subject.
 
Athe~ said:
Torres would've been available in the summer as well, and even if he wasn't, 50m will still get you plenty of good strikers.

Anyways, we clearly aren't going to agree here, so we might as well drop the subject.
Click to expand...

He wasnt. Chelsea made an approach in the summer that was immediately shot down for any price. only when he forced it in january did chelsea make their move.
 
Last edited:
Mike. said:
Er, he wasnt. Chelsea made an approach in the summer that was immediately shot down for any price. only when he forced it in january did chelsea make their move
Click to expand...

This summer, Mike, as in at the beginning of the new season.
 
Athe~ said:
Torres would've been available in the summer as well, and even if he wasn't, 50m will still get you plenty of good strikers.

Anyways, we clearly aren't going to agree here, so we might as well drop the subject.
Click to expand...

FFPR. Last year was the last window in which they could clear off such a huge signing
 
I've mentioned about the reputation Roman has about sacking managers before, as far as I can tell he has only directly made a decision to sack 3 Chelsea managers - Ranieri, Mourinho and Ancelotti.

De Visser has a lot less power at Chelsea this season, the Torres/Luiz signings actually indicated that he no longer had a crucial and final say at the club. Buck has a lot to do with this, having a close relationship with Roman and picking Emenalo over De Visser for the director's job.

Can't see AVB being sacked, Scolari got sacked because he lacked intensity and focus in training which led to complacency and lack of concentration. Grant got sacked because he did almost nothing except keep the players happy and play dull football. Ancelotti got sacked because nothing was changing and the slide was getting worse, freshness was needed both in playing personnel and coaching staff.

As far as I can tell AVB certainly doesn't play dull football; lack focus or intensity; lack philosophy or lack the will to drop players if it isn't working.

That's just the basic logical reason as to why he wont get sacked.

FFPR wise, I suspect the club will just make it across the line of acceptable debt going into FFPR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

FMBase

Beta

Resources

Back
Top