The Chelsea Thread

[Alcaraz]

Not sure how he isn't good enough when not given chances. He has proved he is good enough wherever he went. Top clubs not trying to sign him was for obvious reasons.

Anyways I don't want to drag this topic for pages going nowhere. It's simple, he wasn't given chance. Not all players loves to go out on loan every year. He thinks moving to a club where manager trusts him is better for him. That's a fantastic attitude, not sure why his attitude his questioned. If anything I would question the attitude of young players who are happy to warm benches at top clubs.

The reason he isn't given a chance is because he isn't good enough as seen by the skill-set he displayed while on loan. Yes he did bang in goals but showed his weaknesses' and deficiencies as well. If he was good enough, he would be given chances. Just like how Sturridge was given chances by AVB after he came back from loan at Bolton. Just like how Courtois will be given the No.1 jersey after his fantastic performance at Atletico

You seem to think that clubs are unable to ascertain whether a player is good enough to play for them unless they give him a chance. But that's the point of loans right, send the player to another team and then see whether he is good enough to play for Chelsea. Lukaku certainly showed he can play a role but he definitely cannot start for a top team just yet because he simply isn't better than players such as Costa. That's the crux of the matter

If he showed he is ready to start, he would be starting. Simple

Also, again, if he showed he was good enough at Everton and it was simply a matter of Chelsea being too afraid to give him a chance ... That's fine but then don't you think other top teams would have grabbed the chance to snap him up however, even other top clubs don't think he is good enough as seen by how Atletico preferred Mario and would have done so even if Lukaku cost less because it's a fact that Lukaku isn't good enough to start for top teams

I don't understand why people seem to be criticizing chelsea here though. Essentially saying we should cancel the deal for Costa and give our 21 year old striker an entire season to prove himself despite the fact that his entire game is still clearly limited

 

[JDY]

I'm the only one content with Costa - Drogba - Torres then? Not ideal but still miles better than last season. Obviously I would like Lukaku in Torres' place but what can you do

 

[sunilvk7]

So now Atletico preferred Mandzukic, if you repeat few more times it will become fact.

Anyways I have posted my opinion on this. Not sure there is any point in repeating same points again and again.

 

[Alcaraz]

So now Atletico preferred Mandzukic, if you repeat few more times it will become fact.

Anyways I have posted my opinion on this. Not sure there is any point in repeating same points again and again.

Hmm as you yourself admitted Manzdukic is a much better player ... Unless clubs prefer inferior players in your world then yes, ifs definitely a fact that Atletico preferred Manzdukic as they bought him despite it being clear that Lukaku was available all this while

 

[cfc12345]

Everton players starting to welcome him on twitter/Instagram so seems like it's done

 

[Mike.]

Hmm as you yourself admitted Manzdukic is a much better player ... Unless clubs prefer inferior players in your world then yes, ifs definitely a fact that Atletico preferred Manzdukic as they bought him despite it being clear that Lukaku was available all this while

He was also comfortably cheaper.

 

[Alcaraz]

He was also comfortably cheaper.

And as I said, even if the prices were reversed, they would still got for Manzdukic because he is that much better and that much more ready to start for a top club

The whole crux of the matter is whether Lukaku is ready to start for a top club and he isn't yet. To develop he needs regular games and he will only get that when he drops down a level which he has. Chelsea got paid decent money for a sulking player. Good deal for both parties

 

[sunilvk7]

Hmm as you yourself admitted Manzdukic is a much better player ... Unless clubs prefer inferior players in your world then yes, ifs definitely a fact that Atletico preferred Manzdukic as they bought him despite it being clear that Lukaku was available all this while

Again assumption.

You have any links to prove Lukaku was offered to Atletico?
You have any links to prove that Atletico were ready to offer 30 Million?
You have any links to prove that Lukaku was interested in moving to Atletico?

Again you are just assuming.

Mandzukic is better player, that doesn't mean Atletico had chance to sign Lukaku or they were even interested.

 

[Mike.]

And as I said, even if the prices were reversed, they would still got for Manzdukic because he is that much better and that much more ready to start for a top club

The whole crux of the matter is whether Lukaku is ready to start for a top club and he isn't

Actually that's fairly unlikely they would spend 30m on him. Even with CL, they have to rely on smart business. More likely to buy Lukaku and try and turn him over for a profit in a couple years instead.

 

[sunilvk7]

And as I said, even if the prices were reversed, they would still got for Manzdukic because he is that much better and that much more ready to start for a top club

The whole crux of the matter is whether Lukaku is ready to start for a top club and he isn't yet. To develop he needs regular games and he will only get that when he drops down a level which he has. Chelsea got paid decent money for a sulking player. Good deal for both parties

One more assumption.

 

[Alcaraz]

I think the question is simple. Is Lukaku good enough to play a leading role for a CL club that wants to win it all?

I personally don't think so and that's why I feel this deal is good for both parties ... Chelsea might regret it down the line but it's the right decision that was made in the present moment

 

[Alcaraz]

One more assumption.

You can point out as many assumptions and nit pick all you like despite the fact that your own arguments work against you. Lukaku clearly isn't ready to start for a top club. That's my personal opinion. You obviously think he is ready to start for a top club and that's your opinion

Going by your logic, would you remove RVP and have Lukaku as your No.1 striker?

 

[Alcaraz]

Actually that's fairly unlikely they would spend 30m on him. Even with CL, they have to rely on smart business. More likely to buy Lukaku and try and turn him over for a profit in a couple years instead.

Yes but now you are bringing other factors into play. The whole point is that based on ability alone, Lukaku isn't ready to start for a top club. He can play a role but he isn't ready to start

 

[Mike.]

Yes but now you are bringing other factors into play. The whole point is that based on ability alone, Lukaku isn't ready to start for a top club. He can play a role but he isn't ready to start

No I'm not. You said they would have still bought him. They wouldnt have. You cant change the argument you just made. I dont actually care about what you and sunil are arguing about fwiw. But the assertion you made about Mandzukic being bought if the prices are reversed is incorrect. They would never buy him for 30m, because they have virtually no chance of making a profit in future. They rarely operate that way. The last player they spent megabucks on, they still sold for a profit.

 

[Alcaraz]

Again assumption.

You have any links to prove Lukaku was offered to Atletico?
You have any links to prove that Atletico were ready to offer 30 Million?
You have any links to prove that Lukaku was interested in moving to Atletico?

Again you are just assuming.

Mandzukic is better player, that doesn't mean Atletico had chance to sign Lukaku or they were even interested.

Fine fine screw the whole idea of Atletico Madrid happy? I forgot that Sunil won't accept anything unless their are links. You seem intent on trying to take down a hypothetical example instead of actually examining the crux of the matter

Two very simple questions ...

Do you think Lukaku is good enough to start for Chelsea based on his loan performances?

If your answer is yes, then would you remove RVP and hand Lukaku the starting role if you could? Because he is younger and according to you, good enough to do the job at the top level

 

[Alcaraz]

No I'm not. You said they would have still bought him. They wouldnt have. You cant change the argument you just made. I dont actually care about what you and sunil are arguing about fwiw. But the assertion you made about Mandzukic being bought if the prices are reversed is incorrect. They would never buy him for 30m, because they have virtually no chance of making a profit in future. They rarely operate that way. The last player they spent megabucks on, they still sold for a profit.

They made enough money in the sales of Costa and Luis to Chelsea. If Mandzdukic is the best option available in the market, they would buy him because the alternative, that is Lukaku, isn't good enough to lead the line for the league champions yet

 

[Mike.]

They made enough money in the sales of Costa and Luis to Chelsea. If Mandzdukic is the best option available in the market, they would buy him because the alternative, that is Lukaku, isn't good enough to lead the line for the league champions yet

No, because they still have tremendous debt. They would never buy him for 30m because they have zero chance of making more on top. They are alwasys going to buy whoever costs 18m of the two. Manzdukic because even with no resale he reprensents enough value at that price. Lukaku, because he is young enough to be sold at a profit later.

 

[Alcaraz]

No, because they still have tremendous debt. They would never buy him for 30m because they have zero chance of making more on top. They are alwasys going to buy whoever costs 18m of the two. Manzdukic because even with no resale he reprensents enough value at that price. Lukaku, because he is young enough to be sold at a profit later.

Why would they buy someone who is clearly not good enough to lead their line when they can buy someone like Mario who can lead their line. Yes I agree they are under tremendous debt but they have already sold players like Costa and Luis for profit. Their league win and CL run would definitely help in terms of prize money and sponsorship. They have players like Koke whom they can sell at big profit

So why reduce their chances of future success simply because they hope to make a profit on the potential resale of one player who isn't good enough to lead their line at the top level?

 

[Mike.]

Why would they buy someone who is clearly not good enough to lead their line when they can buy someone like Mario who can lead their line. Yes I agree they are under tremendous debt but they have already sold players like Costa and Luis for profit. Their league win and CL run would definitely help in terms of prize money and sponsorship. They have players like Koke whom they can sell at big profit

So why reduce their chances of future success simply because they hope to make a profit on the potential resale of one player who isn't good enough to lead their line at the top level?

You really dont understand how Atletico operate, or how much debt they are in. Someone like Lukaku wouldnt lower their chances, as he actually fits the scrappy style they play. they pull together players that dont seem to "fit" the very best, or have potential, and work on them, make them better than they are. Getting him to score 20 goals, would almost certainly double his value, at which point they sell him. Koke is one of the few players they are desperate to never sell.

If you really want to downplay Lukaku's ability, go ahead. Like I said, I dont care about you and Sunil's argument. the simple fact is they would never sign Mandzukic for 30m.

They only way they spend 30m, is to make 40m within a couple of seasons (while the player delivers for a couple of seasons too)

 

[grindo]

salah scores! unselfish from costa...... but gr8 pass frm matic imo