The Death of Football

[ajt09]

This is something that has bothered me for a while. In my opinion, football is dying. And I'm not just focusing on Mr Septic Bladder either.

Firstly the ordinary fan has pretty much, just about become priced out of the game. A prime example is QPR. No I'm going going to insult QPR fans-they've done nothing wrong. It's the people in charge. Just because they were promoted, they deemed it fit to suddenly charge extortianate amounts of money not only season tickets, but also match day tickets. Then tried to offset that with discounts for kids and OAPs. Well that doesn't cut it Mr. Ecclestone. You're trying to make the club appear glitzy, so wealthy fans/buisiness people attend and make the club glamorous. And when some clubs are so determined to pay obscene wages to get them to play for the club, it's obvious who's going to suffer-the fans. Some people criticize the players for being paid so much, but when a club WANTS to pay them that much, how can they be blamed?

Another bug bear, is moving the FA Cup Final kick off to 5:30 pm. No, just frickin no. I've been in love with football since I was 9 years old after seeing Everton play for the first time in the FA Cup Final against Watford in 84, and to me, this is just an absolute travesty. People call me old fashioned, but so what. I love football, and think it's wrong, the kick off time should be moved, just to keep some goddam tv company happy. It's a football heritage in this country and should just be left the **** alone. Here is the proposal:

Exclusive: FA Cup Final switches to 5.30pm start in 2013 - Football News - Football - Sport - People.co.uk

But what really shocked me, is the number of 11-a-side clubs that have folded in this country. In a report done last year, over 3,000 clubs folded since 2007, due to the rising unsustainable costs. The costs are substantial: pitch hire, changing rooms, kits, training facilities, CRB checks....the list is endless. The costs add up to roughly £2000 per club.
Most clubs meet their costs through a combination of player subs, fundraising and sponsorship but, for some clubs, this is still not enough. It got to the point, where a club in London (Senrab FC)in East London, a prolific source of England internationals over the years, was on the brink of folding last month due to a combination of increased costs and a reduction in council funding. The only reason it avoided complete collape, was thanks to an undisclosed donation from John Terry.
In 2000 the Football Foundation stated that the FA would contribute £20m per annum to grassroots football in England. Yet by last year the FA's contribution was only £12m. The Premier League contributes £43.4m, less than 5% of its latest £3.1bn TV rights deal. So its obvious that the gulf between grass roots and professional football is now incredibly vast. And it's obvious (to me anyway), the because now some clubs are paying needlessly stupid wages to players, they themselves, wouldn't be in a position to help-even if they wanted to. And the fact that so many playing fields are now being got rid of is making matters worse, and the ones that are still around, are nearly unplayable anyway. The country should follow the Dutch model.

Basically, the way I see it, after reading up on everything, and getting angered more and more, I see in the next few years that more and more matches will be PPV, there'll be a new European Super League, and that many lower level English clubs, will probably be forced to go part-time. They may see it as the only way to survive. The Premiership will be fine, and the Championship should be okay, but below that imo it looks pretty bleak. Yes the Premiership is the best league in the world (in my opinion-don't care if people think I'm biased or not), but at what cost to the rest of the other leagues/clubs?

 

[KingSheva]

Could not agree more. I think the new financial fair play rule is even worse as it will not make a difference to clubs like Man U, Barca or Real Madrid because they make 100s of millions a year anyway

 

[ajt09]

Could not agree more. I think the new financial fair play rule is even worse as it will not make a difference to clubs like Man U, Barca or Real Madrid because they make 100s of millions a year anyway

Pretty much agree. Like people have mentioned, however well intentioned it is, there's going to be more cons than pros sadly.

 

[Mads2506]

I don't really see how "football is dying" after reading this thread. You were just speaking about a few (major or minor) problems in British football.

 

[Mike.]

the FFPR only work at the top levels, and in fairness that is what they were designed to do, its always been up to the FA's of each country to look after the game, and as usual ours is massively failing

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------

I don't really see how "football is dying" after reading this thread. You were just speaking about a few (major or minor) problems in British football.

he meant english football

 

[ajt09]

the FFPR only work at the top levels, and in fairness that is what they were designed to do, its always been up to the FA's of each country to look after the game, and as usual ours is massively failing

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------



he meant english football

Maybe should've put that in header lol.

It's definately a huge failure. I enjoy watchin footie on a weekend when I can, cause you (used to) get some really good local lads who were talented. Few years ago when on the bus a few times, used to see kids/young adults playing on loads of fields. Now its all gone. Either replaced by housing, or just left to get run down. Really is sad to see.

 

[Joel`]

Could not agree more. I think the new financial fair play rule is even worse as it will not make a difference to clubs like Man U, Barca or Real Madrid because they make 100s of millions a year anyway

What cons? The only cons are absolute, relative to doing nothing they're pros if anything. The rules have come in too late, I believe that there will be a fairly large lapse in time before they're truly effective, but I'd like to see someone give me an actual good argument for why they're not good in the long run.

QPR are a joke, but surely the link between clubs closing down is down to the data being collected right as the economy hit the *******, rather than an inherent flaw with football?

EDIT: The whole Wembley fixtures was pure incompetence as per by the FA as well, from FA cup to play off final.. Says a lot about the game though when the FA are the only ones strong enough to take an interest in FIFA's dodgy dealings.

 

[ajt09]

What cons? The only cons are absolute, relative to doing nothing they're pros if anything. The rules have come in too late, I believe that there will be a fairly large lapse in time before they're truly effective, but I'd like to see someone give me an actual good argument for why they're not good in the long run.

QPR are a joke, but surely the link between clubs closing down is down to the data being collected right as the economy hit the *******, rather than an inherent flaw with football?

Well, the problem is, even if the economy didn't hit the pan, grass roots would still have received insufficient funding, and costs still would've risen. And the majority of money collected was still not reaching where it was supposed to have. So basically, lower level football would probably still have been left to fend for itself, while focus remained on improving something, that pretty much didn't need to improve. It was already at an extremely high level, but because of so much tinkering, and ill thought out ideas, it's got out of control. Everybody else is suffering as a result. That's my opinion anyway. Obviously everyone will have different opinions-it's a forum after all.

 

[Jamie.]

Just had a thought Ajt-Joel-FM Base,

Sepp Blatter seems to be doing so much 'crazy' stuff on a daily basis that we should probably set up some sort of Sepp Blatter/Fifa Discussion thread to bottle all of our 'bitter world cup' anger into one huge pile of completely 'unfounded' allegations and reportings?

In 1 years time when that babies 200+ pages long we can look back and make sure we don't forget all the crazy/unbelievable/disgusting things he's done over the past 12 months...Sound's like a plan to me.

 

[ajt09]

Just had a thought Ajt-Joel-FM Base,

Sepp Blatter seems to be doing so much 'crazy' stuff on a daily basis that we should probably set up some sort of Sepp Blatter/Fifa Discussion thread to bottle all of our 'bitter world cup' anger into one huge pile of completely 'unfounded' allegations and reportings?

In 1 years time when that babies 200+ pages long we can look back and make sure we don't forget all the crazy/unbelievable/disgusting things he's done over the past 12 months...Sound's like a plan to me.

lol. could be a best selling novel. perfect bog reading material lol

 

[Joel`]

Well, the problem is, even if the economy didn't hit the pan, grass roots would still have received insufficient funding, and costs still would've risen. And the majority of money collected was still not reaching where it was supposed to have. So basically, lower level football would probably still have been left to fend for itself, while focus remained on improving something, that pretty much didn't need to improve. It was already at an extremely high level, but because of so much tinkering, and ill thought out ideas, it's got out of control. Everybody else is suffering as a result. That's my opinion anyway. Obviously everyone will have different opinions-it's a forum after all.

In fairness, it seems the powers at be have seemed to recognise the issues at grass roots level. Just it's a decade too late, again. Seems to be the theme with the FA, they'd much rather go for the cure than the prevention. Incompetency to look after the international level, and to govern the club level.

 

[Anthony]

Firstly the ordinary fan has pretty much, just about become priced out of the game.

Just something I want to pick up on here. What exactly is an ordinary fan? Why are they priced out of the game? Should sport and it's advancement dance to the tune of the lowest earner?? How does that make sense?
Lets stop improving things just in case under achievers feel left out?
Give me a break.

 

[curtis290]

Just something I want to pick up on here. What exactly is an ordinary fan? Why are they priced out of the game? Should sport and it's advancement dance to the tune of the lowest earner?? How does that make sense?
Lets stop improving things just in case under achievers feel left out?
Give me a break.

Terrible post. First of all, I think it's a really douchey thing to say that anyone who isn't wealthy is an "under-achiever." Lots of people at the top of their careers might not make a lot of money because they chose a field that was their passion as opposed to one that pays well. Second, sports are not supposed to be a plaything of the rich. The commercialization of the game is ruining it, and alt is right, one of the worst parts of this is that the real fans are priced out of the game. The strongest, most passionate fans are generally the "under-achievers" and are priced out while the wealthy people that do go to these games really don't care and are there either because the tickets were corporate perks or because of the status symbol that these tickets have become. Listen to how quite home games are at the Emirates, the Bridge, OT, etc. It's a bunch of rich people that really don't care that much about the team.

What's great about other leagues is that they haven't been commercialized like the Prem has, and one of the benefits of this is that real fans can actually afford to go to the games. Look at the Bundesliga; the tickets there are extremely cheap and the attendances are the highest in the world. It also has much more parity than the big leagues in Europe. And of course financial controls prevent teams from the billionaire takeovers that don't have concern for the club.

Of course the real reason football is dead is because the top few leagues in Europe buy all the talent from everywhere else so a lot of the once great leagues are now terrible. But most fans of the top leagues never mention that.

 

[shadowsc2]

In addition to top few leagues buying all the talents, most of other leagues have big depts(I know the La Liga has a very very large debt but more-less it's not affecting them from what I know) so they can't afford to buy and develop good youngsters, instead they have to constantly sell their best players to even survive...

 

[Kris]

It is extremely shocking that Q.P.R can get away with the ticket inflation they have thrown at their fans. It’s not like Arsenal where you are at least sitting in one of the finest stadiums in sport with a comfy leather seat & plenty of leg room. Loftus Road is a hole! Unfortunately most clubs rely on this money to stay afloat; well they do in the SPL at least. It’s a no win situation I guess.

We should be taking a page out of the German or the Dutch book. Lower ticket prices attract higher crowds, who in turn will purchase more merchandise when they get to the ground. Although it’s a gamble.



Moving the F.A Cup final time is a horrible idea but a financially beneficial one. I suppose they are trying to take a page out of UEFA’s book with the champions’ league final. The later time will attract higher TV audiences but it ruins the whole idea of going to Wembley on a sunny afternoon with your hopes held high on winning a trophy. Although that get’s ruined by hosting the semi finals there too, The F.A trying to squeeze as much money out of people as possible to pay off the new stadium.

I understand what you are saying about lower clubs struggling financially but as the larger clubs continue to grow and attract better players (look at the quality of player in the championship or league 1 for instance) more and more people are willing to go and watch those clubs rather than watch their ‘local’ side. You can’t have it both ways I guess. Is there any need for all these club’s if they cannot afford to keep afloat and nobody is going to watch them?

 

[ajt09]

It is extremely shocking that Q.P.R can get away with the ticket inflation they have thrown at their fans. It’s not like Arsenal where you are at least sitting in one of the finest stadiums in sport with a comfy leather seat & plenty of leg room. Loftus Road is a hole! Unfortunately most clubs rely on this money to stay afloat; well they do in the SPL at least. It’s a no win situation I guess.

We should be taking a page out of the German or the Dutch book. Lower ticket prices attract higher crowds, who in turn will purchase more merchandise when they get to the ground. Although it’s a gamble.



Moving the F.A Cup final time is a horrible idea but a financially beneficial one. I suppose they are trying to take a page out of UEFA’s book with the champions’ league final. The later time will attract higher TV audiences but it ruins the whole idea of going to Wembley on a sunny afternoon with your hopes held high on winning a trophy. Although that get’s ruined by hosting the semi finals there too, The F.A trying to squeeze as much money out of people as possible to pay off the new stadium.

I understand what you are saying about lower clubs struggling financially but as the larger clubs continue to grow and attract better players (look at the quality of player in the championship or league 1 for instance) more and more people are willing to go and watch those clubs rather than watch their ‘local’ side. You can’t have it both ways I guess. Is there any need for all these club’s if they cannot afford to keep afloat and nobody is going to watch them?

I do see what you mean there. The downside I can see potentially, is that if people can no longer afford to watch the elite players or go to nearby bigger clubs, and the smaller clubs have disappeared, they'll be stuck watching it on tv (unless there's some sort of offer that clubs do like discounts etc), because they won't have any more nearby clubs to go to, to watch football. I would be desperately disappointed if the local Gateshead side went bust.

But, I do see your point. I guess people would rather pay to watch the better players. The Championship and League One have definately improved quality wise.

 

[chris22]

This is something that has bothered me for a while. In my opinion, football is dying. And I'm not just focusing on Mr Septic Bladder either.

Firstly the ordinary fan has pretty much, just about become priced out of the game. A prime example is QPR. No I'm going going to insult QPR fans-they've done nothing wrong. It's the people in charge. Just because they were promoted, they deemed it fit to suddenly charge extortianate amounts of money not only season tickets, but also match day tickets. Then tried to offset that with discounts for kids and OAPs. Well that doesn't cut it Mr. Ecclestone. You're trying to make the club appear glitzy, so wealthy fans/buisiness people attend and make the club glamorous. And when some clubs are so determined to pay obscene wages to get them to play for the club, it's obvious who's going to suffer-the fans. Some people criticize the players for being paid so much, but when a club WANTS to pay them that much, how can they be blamed?

Another bug bear, is moving the FA Cup Final kick off to 5:30 pm. No, just frickin no. I've been in love with football since I was 9 years old after seeing Everton play for the first time in the FA Cup Final against Watford in 84, and to me, this is just an absolute travesty. People call me old fashioned, but so what. I love football, and think it's wrong, the kick off time should be moved, just to keep some goddam tv company happy. It's a football heritage in this country and should just be left the **** alone. Here is the proposal:

Exclusive: FA Cup Final switches to 5.30pm start in 2013 - Football News - Football - Sport - People.co.uk

But what really shocked me, is the number of 11-a-side clubs that have folded in this country. In a report done last year, over 3,000 clubs folded since 2007, due to the rising unsustainable costs. The costs are substantial: pitch hire, changing rooms, kits, training facilities, CRB checks....the list is endless. The costs add up to roughly £2000 per club.
Most clubs meet their costs through a combination of player subs, fundraising and sponsorship but, for some clubs, this is still not enough. It got to the point, where a club in London (Senrab FC)in East London, a prolific source of England internationals over the years, was on the brink of folding last month due to a combination of increased costs and a reduction in council funding. The only reason it avoided complete collape, was thanks to an undisclosed donation from John Terry.
In 2000 the Football Foundation stated that the FA would contribute £20m per annum to grassroots football in England. Yet by last year the FA's contribution was only £12m. The Premier League contributes £43.4m, less than 5% of its latest £3.1bn TV rights deal. So its obvious that the gulf between grass roots and professional football is now incredibly vast. And it's obvious (to me anyway), the because now some clubs are paying needlessly stupid wages to players, they themselves, wouldn't be in a position to help-even if they wanted to. And the fact that so many playing fields are now being got rid of is making matters worse, and the ones that are still around, are nearly unplayable anyway. The country should follow the Dutch model.

Basically, the way I see it, after reading up on everything, and getting angered more and more, I see in the next few years that more and more matches will be PPV, there'll be a new European Super League, and that many lower level English clubs, will probably be forced to go part-time. They may see it as the only way to survive. The Premiership will be fine, and the Championship should be okay, but below that imo it looks pretty bleak. Yes the Premiership is the best league in the world (in my opinion-don't care if people think I'm biased or not), but at what cost to the rest of the other leagues/clubs?

i totally agree with this it wont be long before we see a player getting 400k a week

 

[Sam]

Would you support goal line technology Ajt?

 

[ajt09]

Would you support goal line technology Ajt?

in two minds tbh. It can benefit the game, but at the same time such sophisticated technology comes at a cost. It has been estimated that a football club can expect to pay between £125,000-£250,000 for the installation of a Hawk eye type system. That would be absolutely crippling for some. Plus, (correct me if I'm wrong), it's not real time. It's what is used in tennis, and would hold up play.
So not sure as yet. Besides-wouldn't you miss all the talking points of refeering decisions after a match?

 

[Sam]

in two minds tbh. It can benefit the game, but at the same time such sophisticated technology comes at a cost. It has been estimated that a football club can expect to pay between £125,000-£250,000 for the installation of a Hawk eye type system. That would be absolutely crippling for some. Plus, (correct me if I'm wrong), it's not real time. It's what is used in tennis, and would hold up play.
So not sure as yet. Besides-wouldn't you miss all the talking points of refeering decisions after a match?

See that's my problem, I think it would give us football fans nothing to banter about, so I would rather not have GL tech. And I'm a person who has experienced the horrible feeling when a ref makes a wrong decision which affects the game. (Spurs vs Chelsea, England vs Germany)