The Death of Football

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Mike. said:
hardly, have you seen the state most euro clubs are in. serie a is still reeling from 10 years on. football is largely about to burst.
been over this so many times, the rules arent perfect, but to succeed requires genuine long term smart investment, and actually running a club well
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Joe is just upset Man City going to get fuuuccckkeeed uuuuppp!
 
I am Dunc, god forbid a small club like city trying to disrupt the established order!
 
Joe said:
In your opinion Mike, what do these financial rules mean for teams like Malaga, QPR, Chelsea and Man City who are ran by rich owners who want quick success.
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It means they need to become self sufficient rather than rely on money to be plundered in every transfer window and their debts can't be simply 'cleared' anymore because UEFA will count any debts into the overall revenue but I truly believe City/Chelsea will find ways around this...

I could be wrong, it has been a while since I looked at the FFP guidebook, I think clubs can record up to 40 million losses the first 3 seasons and it gets gradually decreased down over the next few years.

But there is serious financial problems in Serie A/La Liga/Premiership...

Premier League clubs below the top few have debts of around 200-300 million pounds, the only things they have going for them that Italian teams don't is all seater stadiums they own not rent and they get far greater revenue every season through TV, upwards of 70 million pounds a year. You should expect to see alot of transfers structured differently in the future, average debt in Serie A/La Liga is ridiculous somewhere in the region of 230 million euros of unstructured debt which has no structured repayments and all the clubs can do is essentially sell off their assets (Valencia last year) and restructure.
Are you one of those guys that listened to Sepp Blatters quote ''Football Is Not In Crisis'' and believed him? XD

Whatever top lawyers UEFA hired to check through the legality and close loopholes owners will always higher more expensive lawyers to open some up its just the facts of football really
 
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Hardly a small club :/

If you look at it, rather than clubs being able to get instant success, they will get it gradually, so when they finally do get it, they have the infrastructure to handle it. Rather than getting into the Champions league with a ****** stadium, no fans and leaking money like it's going out of fashion. (not referring to City, just in general, City have a great stadium and a solid fan base.)
 
Joe said:
In your opinion Mike, what do these financial rules mean for teams like Malaga, QPR, Chelsea and Man City who are ran by rich owners who want quick success.
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Actually even Roman is trying to balance chelsea. The rules dont stop them from investing lots of money into making them viable and well run businesses, as opposing to having turnovers vastly dwarfed by expenditures
 
Barca are in Billions of pounds of debt, does this mean they will be ****** when these new rules kick in?
 
Joe said:
I am Dunc, god forbid a small club like city trying to disrupt the established order!
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Spurs managed to break into the top 4 without a sheikh. These rules just promote investment for long term success, which is no bad thing at all to the sane minded.
 
Spurs have always been relatively good, we were **** before the sheikh joined. And to be fair, Redknapp did spend a lot of money on players, its not like he did it spending nothing, a better example would have been everton.
 
Joe said:
Barca are in Billions of pounds of debt, does this mean they will be ****** when these new rules kick in?
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one they are not in billions of debt. I havent seen their figures recently (as in how the debt is structured) but Andersred reckons they should sail though, not unexpected since they actually generate huge amounts of revenue
 
Barce and Real Madrid especially have HUGE problems complying.

Madrid payed for their last spending spree on Ronaldo through loans from banks with small interest (Something to do with the King Of Spain and his power with the Spanish banking system), Barce are in 746ish million euros debt and that's why the stories coming out that they have banned colour photocopying at the stadium to save money yet are rumoured to be bidding 35 million for Fabregas...

Best placed teams going into Financial Fair Play:
Bundesliga teams + Arsenal, possibly United depending on their balance sheet.

Udinese are well placed as well surprisingly, think when they last restructured 10 years ago they set out a plan and stuck to it so they could be a coming force of sorts in Italy. Inter+AC still have huge debts structured in bonds that Moratti/Berusconi stopped clearing outright years ago I believe, Serie A is in a huge mess at the minute simply because half the clubs don't have all seater stadiums that are adequate enough...

Juve recently built a new Delle Alpi with the biggest stadium budget in Italy for years...41k is the capacity of that BUT they believe they are a step ahead of every other team in Italy by restructuring over the last couple of years...Teams are trying to change but FFP will just help them along the road a little bit.

Edit:
Should probably clear up, Barce/Madrid/United have huge debts but astronomical revenue streams of 300 million+ a year on the last list released from 09 so you would presume they will be fine. Chelsea and City probably bring in around 130 millionish a year and splash out 200 which is why if FFP came in they would have no transfer budgets at all. Focusing on revenue is definitely the way forward for club.
 
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Joe said:
Spurs have always been relatively good, we were **** before the sheikh joined. And to be fair, Redknapp did spend a lot of money on players, its not like he did it spending nothing, a better example would have been everton.
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why would everton be a better example? Spurs are good example too they are a well run club

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------
Jimmer said:
Barce and Real Madrid especially have HUGE problems complying.

Madrid payed for their last spending spree on Ronaldo through loans from banks with small interest (Something to do with the King Of Spain and his power with the Spanish banking system), Barce are in 746ish million euros debt and that's why the stories coming out that they have banned colour photocopying at the stadium to save money yet are rumoured to be bidding 35 million for Fabregas...

Best placed teams going into Financial Fair Play:
Bundesliga teams + Arsenal, possibly United depending on their balance sheet.

Udinese are well placed as well surprisingly, think when they last restructured 10 years ago they set out a plan and stuck to it so they could be a coming force of sorts in Italy. Inter+AC still have huge debts structured in bonds that Moratti/Berusconi stopped clearing outright years ago I believe, Serie A is in a huge mess at the minute simply because half the clubs don't have all seater stadiums that are adequate enough...

Juve recently built a new Delle Alpi in the biggest stadium budget in Italy for years...41k is the capacity of that BUT they believe they are a step ahead of every other team in Italy by restructuring over the last couple of years...Teams are trying to change but FFP will just help them along the road a little bit.
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united will sail through, so will real madrid. madrid are in a lot better shape than people think. i will link the article here, its lng, but makes for some very interesting reading
 
Joe said:
Spurs have always been relatively good, we were **** before the sheikh joined. And to be fair, Redknapp did spend a lot of money on players, its not like he did it spending nothing, a better example would have been everton.
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The point is there's more ways to break in without getting massive investment, so the argument it solidifies the places of the big teams is moot. Clubs can, should and will invest over time to grow. It's what the clubs that are currently the elite did to get there in the first place, it just seems people think if no effect happens in a couple of seasons it's pointless. Would you rather have no FFP rules and the big 4 just spend themselves into debt, bringing instability to the whole league - all in an effort to put barriers up to their position?
 
Because spurs spent a lot of money to get into the CL, like we did. Moyes got them there spending nothing really, was the point i am trying to make.
 
Joe said:
Because spurs spent a lot of money to get into the CL, like we did. Moyes got them there spending nothing really, was the point i am trying to make.
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spurs never overburdened themselves, your wage is 107% of your turnover alone. United got where they are buy running themselves as a fantastic business, and even being leveraged with glazer debt, the club is still in better shape than most others.
 
Pretty lame though, the teams with the biggest revenues will always be the most successful in theory although you will get an anomaly every so often.
 
Joe said:
Because spurs spent a lot of money to get into the CL, like we did. Moyes got them there spending nothing really, was the point i am trying to make.
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Compare it to City, they spent nothing, the are a well run club, you cannot compare City to Spurs.
 
Barcelona finance sheet 09/10 season:
Trading income: 420.2 million euros
Operating costs: 428.1 million euros
Operating profit or loss: -7.9 million euros
Financial and extraordinary profit or loss: -13.5 million euros
Before tax net profit or loss: -21.4 million euro

Just highlights how hard it is for big clubs to use the huge revenue they get to balance off transfers/wage bills/other costs.

Every club has loans make no mistake about it, but the difference between a loan to a Spanish bank and an English bank?

Spain will need bailing out by the Eurozone at some point in the next 2 years its now an inevitability, and who is the first customer those banks will go to to get their money back?
The one industry that has proved to be 'recession proof' is football...
Interesting to see what does happen in that sort of situation over the next few years, ideally clubs will have payed off their loans and be FFP compliant but if they're not and the banks ask for their money back...
 
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