poma
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 38
- Reaction score
- 9
- Points
- 8
This tactic is awesome!
View attachment 108135
View attachment 108135
THE GODFATHER - Conte's 3-4-3
- Thread starter Kyanite
- Start date
- Replies 25
- Views 47K
tesseraeikosi7
Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2016
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
playing a counter mentality in fm cant emulate conte's advancing center backs though.. they dont get em high enough to get that "DCL/DCR active like full backs". they just stay sooo deep that its really the opposite from conte's center backs.. you need at least control mentality, stopper for side dcs and very fluid shape (to get the maximum of center backs mentalities), chiellini is bombing forward running with ball or not many times, both on juventus (with conte) and italy, with a counter mentality he would just stay in front of his gk. and of course because because of high mentality you have to drop deeper, conte's teams dont press that high, they press a lot, but in a deeper line, not that high as barcelona or klopp/schmidt , they seem happy to fall back and trust themselves to defend and then build or counter attack.
as can be seen here also, the shape is not narrow, its very wide, so wide that cant be emulated in fm (even on full width and wing backs to stay wider you cant get them stay that wide), pedro seems like a winger mostly getting onto opposition area sometimes if you check the real average positions, its just the strikers that play so close and most of the players moving into channels and roaming into central positions (exploiting spaces movements on free areas because of high width) that makes it seem like narrow sometimes, and of course the narrow defending shape, with the team being deeper and narrower, so when they win ball back and counter can be on narrow positioning.
View attachment 108092
its what they say for the italians that they are the only ones who run back and not forward, and it can be seen more on conte's tactics than the other famous managers like klopp or pellegrini. they get forward slowly when they build up but they run back to defend in a deeper line and press a lot in a deeper area (like simeone).
View attachment 108091
its the same almost to the chelsea squad, conte was using pogba like AMCL / AML on juve also.. maybe a bit higher dline and shorter passing for chelsea. but its very similar, almost the same as italy in group stage.. against spain they stand a bit deeper.
i would place matic/de rossi a bit deeper than the other box2box also, if you check the average positions they re a bit closer to they defence and not seen that far forward like kante or parolo.. like pirlo was doing for juve advancing sometimes as regista but beeing the midfielder behind the rest (except running with ball occasions). since you use exploit the middle and DEFEND mentalities on the middle become support, id give a DPL-D role, so that he will hold position to act as playmaker (conte seeks for passes to his playmakers, matic is a good passer also) and he will also advance when needed and support (its a mc, not a dmc). or even CM-D.
especially the right wing for conte is very high up the field, being like a winger on AMR and attack, trying to get through passes beat offside trap and make opponent defenders get wide for creating spaces, but of course, then you would lose the defending positioning of they player so you cant do that.. being on attack and TIs that can boost his mentality even more than the rest (look for overlap) seems like the only solution. conte's WBL is most of the times better defensively and WBR better offensively (darmian/florenzi, marcos alonso/victor moses)
hope that helps!!
as can be seen here also, the shape is not narrow, its very wide, so wide that cant be emulated in fm (even on full width and wing backs to stay wider you cant get them stay that wide), pedro seems like a winger mostly getting onto opposition area sometimes if you check the real average positions, its just the strikers that play so close and most of the players moving into channels and roaming into central positions (exploiting spaces movements on free areas because of high width) that makes it seem like narrow sometimes, and of course the narrow defending shape, with the team being deeper and narrower, so when they win ball back and counter can be on narrow positioning.
View attachment 108092
its what they say for the italians that they are the only ones who run back and not forward, and it can be seen more on conte's tactics than the other famous managers like klopp or pellegrini. they get forward slowly when they build up but they run back to defend in a deeper line and press a lot in a deeper area (like simeone).
View attachment 108091
its the same almost to the chelsea squad, conte was using pogba like AMCL / AML on juve also.. maybe a bit higher dline and shorter passing for chelsea. but its very similar, almost the same as italy in group stage.. against spain they stand a bit deeper.
i would place matic/de rossi a bit deeper than the other box2box also, if you check the average positions they re a bit closer to they defence and not seen that far forward like kante or parolo.. like pirlo was doing for juve advancing sometimes as regista but beeing the midfielder behind the rest (except running with ball occasions). since you use exploit the middle and DEFEND mentalities on the middle become support, id give a DPL-D role, so that he will hold position to act as playmaker (conte seeks for passes to his playmakers, matic is a good passer also) and he will also advance when needed and support (its a mc, not a dmc). or even CM-D.
especially the right wing for conte is very high up the field, being like a winger on AMR and attack, trying to get through passes beat offside trap and make opponent defenders get wide for creating spaces, but of course, then you would lose the defending positioning of they player so you cant do that.. being on attack and TIs that can boost his mentality even more than the rest (look for overlap) seems like the only solution. conte's WBL is most of the times better defensively and WBR better offensively (darmian/florenzi, marcos alonso/victor moses)
hope that helps!!
Last edited:
Zinedine Zaiddin
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2011
- Messages
- 225
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 18
That's a very, very beautiful piece from you [@tesseraikosi7]!
With all due respect, I think it's all good writing all this, but without actual successful execution in FM, it's meaningless.
- I feel the first mistake you're making, is trying to relate Conte's Chelsea with his Italy or Juve... those systems definitely differed to his current approach at Chelsea, even if slightly, when differences are made you have to balance them out in other areas. Granted the system used against Spain was more similar to what he's doing at Chelsea despite it not being his usual approach with Italy, but you're still talking about different scenarios & players.
- Secondly, you're generalising based on mentality. You talk about the counter mentality resulting in center backs being extremely deep unless they are on a control mentality for some reason, yet one of the screenshots in the OP trumps that theory. My Klopp recreation uses a counter mentality but doesn't cause any issues with defensive line positioning. What's even more confusing is that after ridiculing the counter mentality & defensive line for being too deep, you then say the defensive line is too high lol. I don't think you're sure what you want or perhaps your English is causing me to misinterpret what you're actually saying without being disrespectful.
- You're writing instructions and saying I should change certain things when clearly they are already implemented like that (e.g. the "side dc's being stoppers")
- Regarding width, you show an image of Conte's Italy against Spain which was a rare occasion and surprised many that he went with the 3-4-3 rather than the 3-5-2 he played throughout the rest of the tournament and talk about how wide the wing backs are, then talk about why the front players look so narrow. The reason why I say it's easy to talk the talk but not walk the walk is because it is not possible to recreate things perfectly on FM. You can't specify when X happens, become narrow. When Y happens, widen up a little bit. With a narrow width partnered with wing backs, it's quite clear that sufficient width is achieved by the wing backs whilst emulating the movement in midfield & with the front players. Sometimes it takes specific instructions that you might not agree with on paper in FM to achieve an end goal which is success within the match engine & correct replication.
- You tell me to check the real average positions... sorry I'll stop inventing my own average positions then lol. What next, that Hazard hasn't been the most forward player positionally this season for Chelsea? Take this clip from an ex-Chelsea player on the BBC for example where he discusses this and in fact goes against what you're saying: https://twitter.com/chelseagifs/status/788444061439066116
- Regarding Matic being deeper than Kante (that happens naturally due to the difference between Kante & Matic's player instructions - which I'm assuming you may not have even checked for since it seems you're generalising simply based off the screenshot of BBM), based on my analysis, I still feel Matic or the second midfielder contributes more than being just a holding player. In fact he scored a goal this season where he burst in to the opposition half, ran a plenty and went round the goalkeeper. He isn't just a holding player, but he still ventures forward. He isn't a holding player or a static playmaker in front of the back four.
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w40MLZh8v7E
- As for the wing back stuff, I'm not really sure if you're saying anything new or revolutionary there really.
Would be interesting if you made your own Conte adaptation in game and made it available for people to try out. I'm happy to even add it in the OP as your own variant if you really like.
P
Pricey16887
Guest
Hi pal, really like the look of this tactic (i am a little late to the party) however i download it and it wont show in my tactics folder. Done everything right, but it just doesnt show. is there any chance you can post screenshots of your team instructions and OI please, really want to try this. Thanks
Sorry dude, only just seen this. Still got this issue?