The Liverpool Thread

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anyone watch the portugal u21 vs engalnd u21. ilori was magnificant, cant believe were giving toure and skrtel contracts when weve got this cracking young player at our disposal. dont worry its just another case of mismanagment by the club. next up joe gomez.
 
I agree, I lost count at how many times I heard his name dealing with the situation. Hopefully we at least give him a chance preseason.

I thought William Carvalho had a great game too. Rodgers and his committee better have been watching ¬.¬
 
dilakh2 said:
anyone watch the portugal u21 vs engalnd u21. ilori was magnificant, cant believe were giving toure and skrtel contracts when weve got this cracking young player at our disposal. dont worry its just another case of mismanagment by the club. next up joe gomez.
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I wonder sometimes if you could ever smile...
 
dilakh2 said:
anyone watch the portugal u21 vs engalnd u21. ilori was magnificant, cant believe were giving toure and skrtel contracts when weve got this cracking young player at our disposal. dont worry its just another case of mismanagment by the club. next up joe gomez.
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Ilori was good, magnificent is pushing it a bit... I still think he needs to bulk up a little. It's okay performing in France and u21 level but the Premier League is a lot more physically demanding

Perhaps a loan in England rather than abroad
 
Tuitfio said:
I agree, I lost count at how many times I heard his name dealing with the situation. Hopefully we at least give him a chance preseason.

I thought William Carvalho had a great game too. Rodgers and his committee better have been watching ¬.¬
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Carvalho was very impressive in my opinion.. Would love Liverpool to look into him depending on price

Would be interesting to see how he deals with the likes of Silva, Mata, Coutinho etc in the Premier League though. Different level
 
dilakh2 said:
anyone watch the portugal u21 vs engalnd u21. ilori was magnificant, cant believe were giving toure and skrtel contracts when weve got this cracking young player at our disposal. dont worry its just another case of mismanagment by the club. next up joe gomez.
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Let's see where he's at pre-season before we go pushing for him to start.

Standing out amongst kids in the summer is one thing. He's played a combined 33 league games to date (not including Portuguese second tier appearances); and the only top league he's played in is 9 games in La Liga.

Maybe he turns into something. Maybe he doesn't. And whilst it's true I'm speaking from not seeing him outside of a couple of ressi games a year or so back; that's ridiculously raw to throw into the BPL. Even more so with a defence as shaky as ours.

Skrtel and Toure aren't ideal to have in the first team centre half group, but without the money to go spend (and the same goes for Gomez there. An 18 year old still developing kid who's had one season of Championship football, and whom if we're honest I doubt very few had even heard of, let alone seen until this interest), and with the other alternatives being a very up and down Sakho and a shockingly bad (on his first year) Lovren; that experience back there is beyond vital. ****, that experience PERIOD in the dressing room is crucial given they're just about the only vet's left.

Hopefully Ilori turns into something. And hopefully Wisdom get's a chance to shine pre-season at centre half. But to bin the few experienced heads without knowing that, with no real plan to replace that experience, would be to our detriment IMHO.

And I'm FAR from a fan of Skrtel. Just I both realise there's only so much you can do in one window, and appreciate the experience he brings to a very young group.
 
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LFCMarshall said:
Ilori was good, magnificent is pushing it a bit... I still think he needs to bulk up a little. It's okay performing in France and u21 level but the Premier League is a lot more physically demanding

Perhaps a loan in England rather than abroad
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That should be the next step. The same with Origi.

Get him involved pre-season and take a good look at just where he's at. Then, if he isn't ready, get him loaned out with the provision he'll play to get him used to English football. Preferably to a Premier League club or at worst one in the Championship. Loaning them abroad is no good to anyone. (Or if you truly believe he is ready, then you get him regularly involved off the bench and start integrating him often. Odd games here and there are no darn good.)

Then you get him back in the next pre-season and see where he's then at and where you go from there.

People are so impatient today and want the next hyped young kid thrown in from the get go. Nobody seems to appreciate taking the time in developing young players like we used to always do until they're fully ready for the first team and the crazy demands of the English game.

But then that's the nature of modern day football sadly. Clubs are paying ridiculous prices for young talent, which is just potential in many cases; and the owners/ chairmen spending the money want instant results NOW!
 
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This could come back to bite me completely, but i do think Lovren will improve alot next season... I remember the likes of Carragher and Neville waxing lyrical about him before his move to Anfield and he was in both of their team of the season's

He has been abysmal this season with performances picking up a little towards the end (that wasn't hard, mind) so hopefully he can get a bit of confidence back
 
LFCMarshall said:
This could come back to bite me completely, but i do think Lovren will improve alot next season... I remember the likes of Carragher and Neville waxing lyrical about him before his move to Anfield and he was in both of their team of the season's

He has been abysmal this season with performances picking up a little towards the end (that wasn't hard, mind) so hopefully he can get a bit of confidence back
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That's what I'm clinging to.

Surely he can't be as bad as he was last year. Surely we can't of blown £ 25 million on someone SO poor? We aren't City or Chelsea. We can't just write off money like that without batting an eyelid.

He HAS to be better than what we saw week on week last year?

SURELY?
 
Scouseinthehouse said:
That's what I'm clinging to.

Surely he can't be as bad as he was last year. Surely we can't of blown £ 25 million on someone SO poor? We aren't City or Chelsea. We can't just write off money like that without batting an eyelid.

He HAS to be better than what we saw week on week last year?

SURELY?
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The price was too much, but on this occasion I can see why the player was targeted based on his Southampton and Lyon days... He seemed almost the perfect fit for the defender we were looking for

It's the reason i'm struggling to see why he has been so bad. Added expectation/pressure, weaker defensive unit? who knows
 
One of the reasons Lovren is so bad is that left back (if you could call him that) Alberto Moreno. Majority of Lovrens games he's been the LCB, which is no problem but theres the big thing with Lovren we all know he lacks. Pace. Moreno is never in position to defend, to be fair he makes some great tackles sprinting back but normally he's out of position.

Leaving 2 on the right side often as they've targeted that space (obvious space if you go back and watch our games) Lovren has to come accross to tackle players which Moreno should be there for. Lovren at LB position + Winger with space behind Lovren = ******.

That said Lovren hasn't been as good anyway, but that plays a big part.

I'm not convinced on Moreno, the kid can't defend, and if you actually want to look at how good he is going forward, it's not half as good as people make out.

Here's to better seasons for both of them next year. Hopefully.
 
xJamieWilliams said:
One of the reasons Lovren is so bad is that left back (if you could call him that) Alberto Moreno. Majority of Lovrens games he's been the LCB, which is no problem but theres the big thing with Lovren we all know he lacks. Pace. Moreno is never in position to defend, to be fair he makes some great tackles sprinting back but normally he's out of position.

Leaving 2 on the right side often as they've targeted that space (obvious space if you go back and watch our games) Lovren has to come accross to tackle players which Moreno should be there for. Lovren at LB position + Winger with space behind Lovren = ******.

That said Lovren hasn't been as good anyway, but that plays a big part.

I'm not convinced on Moreno, the kid can't defend, and if you actually want to look at how good he is going forward, it's not half as good as people make out.

Here's to better seasons for both of them next year. Hopefully.
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Completely agree on Moreno. (And that's a constant bugbear of mine in the modern game. Fullbacks that just can not defend. Not like that (should be) their job or anything like .....).

He started off solidly but he's just turned out be yet another in a LONG line of FB's we've had the last 2 decades that can't do what their primary job should be. DEFEND! And he's not consistently good at the other end of the park either as you mentioned.

Ironically, given he's totally out of the picture, I like the other Spaniard who we may as well keep on loan for the second year, Manqiulho. As naturally raw and inexperienced as he looked for someone who had hardly played in Spain, he did look like he liked/ knew how to defend properly first and foremost.

But unless we go back to a 4, the two best pure full backs we currently possess. Flanagan and Manquilho, are completely rendered useless as neither are suited to be wing backs. Even less so with Flanno's pace limitations. But Rodgers seems to value attacking prowess over defensive.

When was the last solid full back we had? Finnan? Then your going right back to who, Robbie Jones?

This is an area that's gone badly unattended for WAY too long.

Clyne would be a good start but we're dallying over the fee that much he's likely to be signed up somewhere else before we finally meet Southampton's demands.
 
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Scouseinthehouse said:
Completely agree on Moreno. (And that's a constant bugbear of mine in the modern game. Fullbacks that just can not defend. Not like that (should be) their job or anything like .....).

He started off solidly but he's just turned out be yet another in a LONG line of FB's we've had the last 2 decades that can't do what their primary job should be. DEFEND! And he's not consistently good at the other end of the park either as you mentioned.

Ironically, given he's totally out of the picture, I like the other Spaniard who we may as well keep on loan for the second year, Manqiulho. As naturally raw and inexperienced as he looked for someone who had hardly played in Spain, he did look like he liked/ knew how to defend properly first and foremost.

But unless we go back to a 4, the two best pure full backs we currently possess. Flanagan and Manquilho, are completely rendered useless as neither are suited to be wing backs. Even less so with Flanno's pace limitations. But Rodgers seems to value attacking prowess over defensive.

When was the last solid full back we had? Finnan? Then your going right back to who, Robbie Jones?

This is an area that's gone badly unattended for WAY too long.

Clyne would be a good start but we're dallying over the fee that much he's likely to be signed up somewhere else before we finally meet Southampton's demands.
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I'm hoping for Clyne! I really am.

Finnan used to be one of my favourite players, he is everything what a full back should be.

It's a shame Enrique had his injury, I think he started to cement a place in the squad before that, now he's shadows of the player he was!

Still hope we try and sign Higuain, even though we won't even try.

World class striker at a club in a worse league who are not in the Champions League? There's only one of them in the world, and that's Higuain!
 
Southampton have signed right back Cedric Soares, so Clyne moving is more likely than ever. We need to stop beating around the bush and come to an agreement with Southampton. We've missed out on far too many good players because we've been haggling over an extra million and then someone else swoops in and takes them.

As for Moreno at left back, I remember when the arguments for both him and Ricardo Rodriguez were being put forward for who would better suit us, the consensus seemed to be that Rodriguez was more effective going forward but Moreno was a more diligent defender. I think he has potential but he's far too rash going forward at the moment. Manquillo I really like because he is defence minded first and foremost. I really hope he gets a chance this season, though I'd still welcome Clyne.

As for our defence and who is to blame, it's tough. Are Skrtel and Moreno to blame for Lovren? Is Lovren to blame for them? You can argue either way, but the one thing in favour of Lovren in that argument is that he's been part of a solid defence at Southampton, whereas our defence was shaky before he even arrived. That being said, Sakho is far and away our best centre back, so he gets into the team ahead of Lovren regardless of who is being played around him, and there's no question that Lovren was the poorest this season. The addition of a real defensive midfielder like Kondogbia, Wanyama, maybe Carvalho, could definitely improve performances across the board in the backline. As well as the impact that the player himself would have, he would likely make the defenders around him more confident, and better overall.
 
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