The Liverpool Thread

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I genuinely don't understand why you'd think Subtle is bitter? If someone has a valuable insight into how these things happen behind the scenes, I'd welcome their knowledge as preparation for what could happen further down the road. That's how I see it. I mean obviously the football fan would support these protests, but at the same time I'd also find it out of place how they backed down so readily and quickly. All he is trying to point out is the fact these sort of people are paid to manipulate us and just be cautious.

There's absolutely no bitterness involved at all-just being cautious
 
As a football fan I am totally behind and believe in what you guys was protesting against, we are at a tipping point and as a fan or more importantly a match going fan this news is important because once one club reaches a say 100 pound tickets they will become common place and there will be no way back.

But and this is a massive but

As someone who is fairly cynical, has a degree in psychology and studied media psychology at length, I am in agreement with Subtle, in essence when you look at it objectively it is either no victory or somewhat very small because you have actually kept the status quo and the prices stay the same (which to me seem high as it is 59 quid that is a lot, out of interest what is the cheapest ticket or average ticket price Tezz/scouse know you guys go regular?).

A real victory imo at least is they would have been reduced, I think Marshall mentioned that the increased profits would be 2 million? you cannot buy this kind of good publicity and good feeling in the fan base for that much. We will never knw but I really would not be surprised at all if this was all concocted in the PR department and boardroom.

That would be relative as to what is agreed on now categorisation is gone so the answer to the bolded is still to be determined.

But prices have gone down. That's in FSG's apology and is bang centre in the above in the abolition of categorisation.

They've gone from proposing to making money out of the fans to losing some on GAP.

But we're apparently being sidetracked by certain price freezes so ignore us.
 
I genuinely don't understand why you'd think Subtle is bitter? If someone has a valuable insight into how these things happen behind the scenes, I'd welcome their knowledge as preparation for what could happen further down the road. That's how I see it. I mean obviously the football fan would support these protests, but at the same time I'd also find it out of place how they backed down so readily and quickly. All he is trying to point out is the fact these sort of people are paid to manipulate us and just be cautious.

There's absolutely no bitterness involved at all-just being caustious

And if you've read his tone on this the past few days as that then he should join the great perceived Boston PR machine. (Aside from ignoring aspects of what's just happened that, apparently, 'haven't.').


But hey, I'm stupidly getting caught up trying to explain and defend something that doesn't need defending. The unprecedented results speak for themselves.
 
I genuinely don't understand why you'd think Subtle is bitter? If someone has a valuable insight into how these things happen behind the scenes, I'd welcome their knowledge as preparation for what could happen further down the road. That's how I see it. I mean obviously the football fan would support these protests, but at the same time I'd also find it out of place how they backed down so readily and quickly. All he is trying to point out is the fact these sort of people are paid to manipulate us and just be cautious.

There's absolutely no bitterness involved at all-just being cautious

Well said, It's a really bizarre accusation tbh.

A similar example today was a headline "United act against fan fears by freezing prices"

Nope, United have frozen prices for the last 4 years. They arent going up with is good, but they've not exactly slashed them either.
 
..... A similar example today was a headline "United act against fan fears by freezing prices"

Nope, United have frozen prices for the last 4 years. They arent going up with is good, but they've not exactly slashed them either.

Did you just try compare an ownership completely backtracking and going from making money over supporters to losing some to a club freezing prices?
 
Only got our tickets today mate on the first day of sale. (Still one short which is creating a massive headache.).

What was the ballot? 5th wave? What's that? Next Tuesday?

Return tickets on the train are over £80 at the moment so I'm panicking.
 
Only got our tickets today mate on the first day of sale. (Still one short which is creating a massive headache.).

What was the ballot? 5th wave? What's that? Next Tuesday?

Ballot is 5th sale. No date given, but the 4th sale is on Monday so hopefully have an answer by Tuesday.



If someone has a valuable insight into how these things happen behind the scenes, I'd welcome their knowledge as preparation for what could happen further down the road.

Unless they've got a PhD in being a Football Club owner than I don't really see how they'd have a valuable insight.
 
But we aren't about the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude which has been the crux of most of the absolutely disgraceful social media comments. ('Stop moaning. Get educated, get a better job and you can pay the money' was my favourite.).

This made me laugh, reminded me of politics over here. House prices in Sydney are going through the roof, it's ridiculous, and one politician was saying "If young people want to own their own house here in Sydney, then they need to get a good job that pays good money".

Yeah because it's just that simple, and a man on an exorbitant salary plus government support for the rest of his life would understand
 
I mean obviously the football fan would support these protests, but at the same time I'd also find it out of place how they backed down so readily and quickly.

And if they hadn't "backed down so readily and quickly", then what? Part of the act? Legit? How do you differentiate between them? Is it just down to what you feel like? What makes sense in your own head?

Or if they even refused to back down at all, then what? Outright greed? Failure to compromise with the fans? Culture clash? Or just some even more advanced PR-scheme that would go on for even longer, in order to achieve some grand master plan in the end, Illuminati style?

All he is trying to point out is the fact these sort of people are paid to manipulate us and just be cautious.

There's absolutely no bitterness involved at all-just being cautious

I'm not saying there aren't people like that out there. But as someone who studies conspiracy theories, there's a fine line between being cautious and being paranoid.
 
Don't even get me started on conspiracy theories...............

Been around more tin foil hat wearers than I care to mention and some of them I have to put up with
 
Don't even get me started on conspiracy theories...............

Been around more tin foil hat wearers than I care to mention and some of them I have to put up with

Yes, well, that's just the stereotype. You don't have to be a David Icke fan in order to believe in some conspiracy theory, or even to let your caution turn into paranoia.
 
So found this on twitter

View attachment 180487

I mean the way the statement reads that scouse posted this does seem right.

But I suppose the more pertinent question is how much does this hold true right through the ticket pricing with the scrapping of categorisation.

Also we think we have it hard Granada hosted Real Madrid on Sunday, you know how much they charge in an economy thats **** fell out years ago and never has recovered 150 euros
 
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Devils in the detail but unless you think the owners are flat out lying, which after yesterday's completely unprecedented events for any big business I think highly unlikely; then that doesn't stack up as they're adamant they won't be making anything more than they currently are off tickets.

Until the exact details are out, any speculation is futile because it's all based on what was the categorisation. We have 19 different tiers of that currently across the stadium through the 3 different levels. That's a mind blowingly complex spreadsheet as it stands. Let alone trying to predict what it will be.
 
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FYI. It's no unprecedented for any big business. It's not even unprecedented in football. Just premiership football.
 
FYI. It's no unprecedented for any big business. It's not even unprecedented in football. Just premiership football.

This is the thing. People think football is special because it should be. The cold reality though, is that it's no different from any other form of entertainment in many ways, and the methodology used in other fields is now being brought into our game as well. There's a reason why we're seeing club structures change to mirror big business, there's a reason why top PR firms are being brought in by the biggest clubs and there's a reason why football clubs are now dropped into discussions about blue chip clients without anyone batting an eye. It's not right, but apathy or outright denial aren't going to change that, if anything it will just lead to us getting to the point of no return all the faster.
 
FYI. It's no unprecedented for any big business. It's not even unprecedented in football. Just premiership football.

A public climb down and apology is FAR from common in big business or football. And as for football it's completely unprecedented to anything like this extent.

FYI. But you know as much already.
 
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A public climb down and apology is FAR from common in big business or football. And as for football it's completely unprecedented to anything like this extent.

FYI. But you know as much already.

yeah, no it happens in business relatively often. And this has happened in Germany several times FFS. The dortmund one is just the latest in several years.
 
I genuinely don't understand why you'd think Subtle is bitter? If someone has a valuable insight into how these things happen behind the scenes, I'd welcome their knowledge as preparation for what could happen further down the road. That's how I see it. I mean obviously the football fan would support these protests, but at the same time I'd also find it out of place how they backed down so readily and quickly. All he is trying to point out is the fact these sort of people are paid to manipulate us and just be cautious.

There's absolutely no bitterness involved at all-just being cautious

I get it, weirdly. I really do. It absolutely sucks to have to come to terms with things like this. To know that the club you support is run by people without any of the care and emotional investment you have for it. For clubs like United and Liverpool, clubs with defined identities, it must be all the harder. Where you see the Shankly gates and all that they mean, the people with the real power at your club see a logo, a branding tool. You see past glory, they see graphic design options and possible tie ins with future investment. That kind of thing on its own is terrible enough.

To then have to think that maybe you don't have nearly as much power as you'd like? That somewhere along the line, the notion of what the club is and the way it was built into a brand has actually made you somewhat obsolete? Terrifying. After all, you are the club, are you not? If it's not you loyal locals that will fill the ground then who will? Therein lies the curse of the globalisation of your club, it ceases to be your club and becomes the worlds'. Due to how the market works, and how modern football works, this is unavoidable. The club with arguably the biggest cultural identity in the world is still absolutely chock full of tourists. It stills uses the global appeal it has to leverage massive tv and sponsorship deals, to fill tens of thousands of seats every game with selfie stick wielding tourists.

And there's nothing you can do about it. Even if the club cared immensely for you, even if it was fan owned and run with only the purest intentions, you would still need to be cynical enough to leverage that market. It's just the cold, hard, economic truth of the matter. It's such an immense revenue source and it will continue to grow and grow. Those that do use it get the most absurd sponsorship deals and associated fees from it. Look at United and Real to see just how much money there is to be made. You can be right and honourable and refuse to play the game, but no one will care. You are an insignificance to them. Worst still, your club is an insignificance in the grand scheme of things, and that is what people hate. The fact that something they care so deeply about could end up being assessed as an asset and not that whirlwind of hype and passion and dedication it really is.

So I can understand. I feel it too, trust me I do. The moment that will always stick with me is being at the FA cup final a few years back between us and Everton with my old man, somehow getting amazing seats and being surrounded by people on their phones, people with cameras, people in suits. People who were there because afterwards they were going to do a line and work a deal. People that wouldn't sing, people that looked at us like we were mad when we started up with Celery. And I remember the solidarity I felt as the scattered fans there in that section turned to each other and belted it out, the sense of being part of a community greater than myself and the sadness at knowing that something so genuine was being crushed for money.

The thing is, being willfully ignorant changes nothing, it means nothing. It's easier and if you don't play the game, you might feel like you have the moral highground. But if you do it that way, living in fantasy and overestimating your position, one day you'll wake up and discover the power you did have is gone. So realise it, recognise the tools of the enemy and fight back.
 
This is the thing. People think football is special because it should be. The cold reality though, is that it's no different from any other form of entertainment in many ways, and the methodology used in other fields is now being brought into our game as well. There's a reason why we're seeing club structures change to mirror big business, there's a reason why top PR firms are being brought in by the biggest clubs and there's a reason why football clubs are now dropped into discussions about blue chip clients without anyone batting an eye. It's not right, but apathy or outright denial aren't going to change that, if anything it will just lead to us getting to the point of no return all the faster.
Football is a business. Whether it should be treated like any other is a different story (i don't think it should be). But cubs spend fortunes on PR and marketing. Is this double spin? Who knows, it's not an UNPRECEDENTED story.
 
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