The Liverpool Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

Imagine if Klopp could turn him round make him realise his potential that would eclipse anything he has achieved in management

He's good but he's not the Messiah miracle working good!

Mario always talks the right words but his actions show otherwise. I'd love him to knuckle down and be the player his immense natural talents should have him be. But that ain't ever happening sadly.

 

[PatrickLFC]

I can understand where Marshall is coming from, it's difficult not to feel cautious or even disheartened when you see names like Mkhitaryan, Xhaka, Gundogan, maybe Pogba, all going to or linked with our rivals, whereas we're on the verge of signing Zielinski. And that's without Chelsea even getting started! I'm more than happy to give him a chance but I do wonder where he gets into the team? By all accounts he's not a defensively adept midfielder, so playing him in a double pivot alongside Can may leave the back 4 exposed.

In saying that, Dahoud is hardly a defensive midfielder either but I'd love us to sign him. And I'm happy with all of our signings so far: Mane, Karius and Matip all address weaknesses in the squad, and Grujic seems to be a fantastic prospect.

 

[LFCMarshall]

See I'm struggling to understand your thinking there.

We've upgraded the biggest problem area of all, goalkeeper. How good this kid is I don't know. But being voted above Neuer by most of his fellow professionals as the best Bundesliga 'keeper last season is a very promising sign. We've upgraded centre half with one of the best defenders in Germany last year who Munich tried REAL hard to sign by Matip's own admission. A massively important piece we didn't have has arrived in the difference making versatility Mane gives. A player Utd got turned down on in January. And there's the highly sought after Grujic who may well not be a starter from the get go but looks to have the right attributes for what we're doing to be a long term fixture in the side.

That's three, potentially four key signings right there who have all improved the side. Two of which were wanted by other major clubs over the course the last season.

Help me out as I'm struggling to understand your fears with what we've done?

We've done quite well but comparing it to United (Ibra and Mkhitaryan), City (Nolito, Gundogan), Arsenal (Xhaka) it is not good reading.

Chelsea will spend money, City will spend even more, United are after Pogba and then there is Arsenal who even may spend a bit more whilst we will seemingly buy to a set plan of potential rather than first team ready.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I think you both need to trust in your manager more.

 

[Tezzz]

Imagine if Klopp could turn him round make him realise his potential that would eclipse anything he has achieved in management

Mate if character wizard Brendan Rodgers can't do it no one can.. XD

 

[PatrickLFC]

I think you both need to trust in your manager more.

I have complete faith in Klopp to improve us vastly. He's been my favourite manager for years and I wouldn't want anyone else at the club. But I'm not dismissing the other managers and their squads either. Teams that are already ahead of us have improved, and will improve, further. Klopp could take the perfect shot, as it were, but the goalposts can be moved because there are factors at work other than just improvements at Liverpool.

 

[LFCMarshall]

I think you both need to trust in your manager more.

There is two sides of this... Trusting your manager and blindly agreeing/following everything that is done because it is Klopp.

Klopp or not, the signings and targets can be scrutinised just like they were with every other manager we have had

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I have complete faith in Klopp to improve us vastly. He's been my favourite manager for years and I wouldn't want anyone else at the club. But I'm not dismissing the other managers and their squads either. Teams that are already ahead of us have improved, and will improve, further. Klopp could take the perfect shot, as it were, but the goalposts can be moved because there are factors at work, other than just improvements at Liverpool.

Why would you dismiss other teams?

But decrying the lack of bigger name signings at the expense of what we've made, along with the massive progress we made last season smacks of a lack of faith in his judgement of what he wanst to improve the squad to fit what we do.

United just made a great signing in Mikhytarian. Straight up question. Would you of preferred him over Mane as he's been referenced twice now? I certainly wouldn't because Mane fits us FAR better and is PL proven.

This isn't Rodgers. If it were, I'd be disheartened too being linked to a Zielinski. But I aren't, because this is a man that knows what he's doing and is building a squad the right way with players with the right attitude and attributes that fit what we do.

 

[PatrickLFC]

Why would you dismiss other teams?

But decrying the lack of bigger name signings at the expense of what we've made, along with the massive progress we made last season smacks of a lack of faith in his judgement of what he wanst to improve the squad to fit what we do.

United just made a great signing in Mikhytarian. Straight up question. Would you of preferred him over Mane as he's been referenced twice now? I certainly wouldn't because Mane fits us FAR better and is PL proven.

This isn't Rodgers. If it were, I'd be disheartened too being linked to a Zielinski. But I aren't, because this is a man that knows what he's doing and is building a squad the right way with players with the right attitude and attributes that fit what we do.

I'm not saying I want big name signings. Like I said, I am more than happy with all of our signings so far.

Absolutely I'm happy with Mane, and assuming Mkhitaryan would have been happy to join Klopp - which he wouldn't - no, I wouldn't prefer him to Mane. He was never comfortable in Klopp's system in Dortmund, so the lack of interest in a possible Mkhitaryan to Liverpool move was mutual, I am sure. Mane offers us what we need, and I'm much happier having signed him than I would have been if we'd signed Gotze instead, despite him being a bigger name.

But that doesn't mean Mkhitaryan's not a superb signing for our rivals. And it's far easier to argue that Mkhitaryan is the superior player, which means that assuming the system is right for each of them at their respective clubs, Mkhitaryan is the better signing on paper. Of course that doesn't mean it will end up being the case, but based on probability, it is.

Of course he knows what he is doing. But so does Mourinho. So does Pep. So does Conte. So does Wenger - for top four, anyway. So do all of the other managers. They know how to buy players to fit their system, and they have the money, and backing, to pick and choose from the best. The margin for error for Klopp is much finer in the PL, where multiple bigger-spending rivals abound, than it was in the Bundesliga, where a monopoly existed and it was easier for the giant to become complacent. Klopp isn't infallible, as much as I love the man, and want him to be!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

You're all over the place here.

On the one hand you say it's easy to be disheartened when you look at the 'name' signings others have made, or are linked to, then in the next breath you're not advocating big name signings and are happy with what we've done!

But regardless, I have little doubt most all of those clubs will be looking at what's being built at Anfield and they'll be fearing us in just the same way.

 

[PatrickLFC]

You're all over the place here.

On the one hand you say it's easy to be disheartened when you look at the 'name' signings others have made, or are linked to, then in the next breath you're not advocating big name signings and are happy with what we've done!

But regardless, I have little doubt most all of those clubs will be looking at what's being built at Anfield and they'll be fearing us in just the same way.

I said I'm happy with what we've done, sure, but that doesn't mean I can't be also concerned by what our rivals are doing. And that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. We know Gundogan can be world class in Klopp's system, Xhaka has been linked before and would seem to be a pretty ideal fit too. Our signings have been good, yes (on paper, anyway), and I'm happy with them, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather see Gundogan in a Liverpool shirt than a Man City one.

This season could honestly go to anyone, it's so difficult to predict. And it must be nice for our rivals to be able to look at their squad and incoming transfers and see proven, top class performers. That's all

 

[zzeezzy]

I said I'm happy with what we've done, sure, but that doesn't mean I can't be also concerned by what our rivals are doing. And that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. We know Gundogan can be world class in Klopp's system, Xhaka has been linked before and would seem to be a pretty ideal fit too. Our signings have been good, yes (on paper, anyway), and I'm happy with them, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't rather see Gundogan in a Liverpool shirt than a Man City one.

This season could honestly go to anyone, it's so difficult to predict. And it must be nice for our rivals to be able to look at their squad and incoming transfers and see proven, top class performers. That's all

I see your point, but unfortunately Liverpool are just not capable of competing for them top names anymore, especially whilst out of Champions League.

But, the key for Klopp is to build a team that is good enough to get you back into CL, then you might start attracting the bigger names. Your realistic aim next season is top 4 and with players like Mane/Matip that is good business to get you back there.

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about your rivals, as proven by last season and in Euros, the big names do not guarantee success. At least under Klopp you have identity and chemistry, that goes a long way to a successful team.

Also I haven't really been blown away from City/Arsenal/Chelsea's business, they have not really done anything that has improved them dramatically in my eyes. Arsenal for example, their problem for a long time has been firepower and goals, what have they done? Signed another midfielder. Time for them still to buy a top striker obviously but I seriously have my doubts.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I see your point, but unfortunately Liverpool are just not capable of competing for them top names anymore, especially whilst out of Champions League.

But, the key for Klopp is to build a team that is good enough to get you back into CL, then you might start attracting the bigger names. Your realistic aim next season is top 4 and with players like Mane/Matip that is good business to get you back there.

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about your rivals, as proven by last season and in Euros, the big names do not guarantee success. At least under Klopp you have identity and chemistry, that goes a long way to a successful team.

Also I haven't really been blown away from City/Arsenal/Chelsea's business, they have not really done anything that has improved them dramatically in my eyes. Arsenal for example, their problem for a long time has been firepower and goals, what have they done? Signed another midfielder. Time for them still to buy a top striker obviously but I seriously have my doubts.

This man get's team building but I wouldn't even say it's not being able to compete for top names anymore zz. It's just not the managers MO unless he's 100% certain they're hungry enough to fully fit with all he requires. He's just as at ease relying on his own coaching ability's as he is working with someone deemed more 'ready.' And everyone we sign is now down to him. Big fee/ name or not.

Gundogan above is a glaring example. Picked up for a pittance of €4 million and transformed into a top class footballer worth a **** of a lot more.

The views on our 'realistic aim' I'll leave and just smile.

 

[zzeezzy]

This man get's it but I wouldn't even say it's not being able to compete for top names anymore zz. It's just not the managers MO unless he's 100% certain they're hungry enough to fully fit with all he requires. He's just as at ease relying on his own coaching ability's as he is working with someone deemed more 'ready.'

Gundogen above is a glaring example. Picked up for a pittance of €4 million and transformed into top class footballer worth a **** of a lot more.

The views on our 'realistic aim' I'll leave and just smile.

I'm not saying Kiopp necessarily wanted them but from Patrick's perspective I can see why he would be unhappy at missing out on them.

Top 4 is your realistic aim though, taking everything into account if we skipped this season and you finished 4th would you complain? Gives you a better base to build from for the next season and then think about the title.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... Top 4 is your realistic aim though, taking everything into account if we skipped this season and you finished 4th would you complain? Gives you a better base to build from for the next season and then think about the title.

Take away the Europa League I have no doubt we'd of finished the top 4 last year. We finished 6 points outside of 4th and we basically tanked the last 5 games in view of the Europa League playing the under 5's every other game.

So yeah, with no Europe this year allied to that, if there wasn't a serious challenge I'd be disappointed. We've seen first hand how much better they are when Klopp has longer to prepare for games and work with them longer on the training pitch. Having full weeks between games should make a heck of a difference too in that regard.

 

[zzeezzy]

Take away the Europa League I have no doubt we'd of finished the top 4 last year. We finished 6 points outside of 4th and we basically tanked the last 5 games in view of the Europa League playing the under 5's every other game.

So yeah, with no Europe this year allied to that, if there wasn't a serious challenge I'd be disappointed. We've seen first hand how much better they are when Klopp has longer to prepare for games and work with them longer on the training pitch. Having full weeks between games should make a heck of a difference too in that regard.

I suppose everyone has their own expectation... I was assuming the league was going to be tougher this year but having seen the signings so far, it may well not be. Still very early days though, I mean it's easy to forget that we're just two days officially into the transfer window. There has been a lot of business already when you look at it that way.

 

[Alcaraz]

Take away the Europa League I have no doubt we'd of finished the top 4 last year. We finished 6 points outside of 4th and we basically tanked the last 5 games in view of the Europa League playing the under 5's every other game.

So yeah, with no Europe this year allied to that, if there wasn't a serious challenge I'd be disappointed. We've seen first hand how much better they are when Klopp has longer to prepare for games and work with them longer on the training pitch. Having full weeks between games should make a heck of a difference too in that regard.

Yes but the league is not the same as last season either. United have just gotten heck of a lot stronger with Mourinho and their player signings. City will also be much stronger with Pep. Tottenham should also go from strength to strength under Pochettino. Arsenal will be Arsenal and do their thing. And despite your reservations, Chelsea also do not have European football and should do much better than last season.

Plus as we all know, you can never discount any of the 'smaller' teams giving the big boys a run for their money!

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Yes but the league is not the same as last season either. United have just gotten heck of a lot stronger with Mourinho and their player signings. City will also be much stronger with Pep. Tottenham should also go from strength to strength under Pochettino. Arsenal will be Arsenal and do their thing. And despite your reservations, Chelsea also do not have European football and should do much better than last season.

Plus as we all know, you can never discount any of the 'smaller' teams giving the big boys a run for their money!

No question. But I don't see L'pool as not being right in that first paragraph.

And it's a LONG time since I've realistically felt that way with genuine confidence.

 

[PatrickLFC]

Sorry, obviously that didn't come across right. I neither expect to have been competing for big names such as Gundogan, nor am I in distress that we didn't sign him. Not bothered by it at all really because it was never realistic.

What I mean is that with our rivals signing players such as these, they're improving immediately. I'm all for long term development and patience myself, but not everybody is, and that may include players. It's what happened at Dortmund, and still happens at Dortmund (Mkhitaryan, Gundogan), and sure, we have more resources than Dortmund, but if our best players want to up and leave before the rest of the team catches up to them, then we can easily get stuck in a loop.

I have no doubt we will be a far better side this coming season, but I'm sure the other big teams will be too. And as for my view on Klopp's transfer policy? If he wants a player, FSG need to get it done.

It's just somewhat intimidating to think of Mkhitaryan and Zlatan going up against Moreno.

 

[PatrickLFC]

No question. But I don't see L'pool as not being right in that first paragraph.

And it's a LONG time since I've realistically felt that way with genuine confidence.

Of course we're in that discussion too. But there are so many elite managers, and somebody has to fail