You said my opinion is "beyond a joke" and said ATHE's opinion was "flawed". It's a valid point to make as he hasn't shown much in 3 years of games when he's played. Yes the Sampdoria loan screwed him over, but he's been back at United for 6 months now and still has barely improved.
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You said my opinion is "beyond a joke" and said ATHE's opinion was "flawed". It's a valid point to make as he hasn't shown much in 3 years of games when he's played. Yes the Sampdoria loan screwed him over, but he's been back at United for 6 months now and still has barely improved.
This season yes barely played in the first team. But he's played for the reserves a number of times and has been training with the team - which Mike. claimed Fergie had said would be better for him instead of going out on loan (not saying he's made it up, but I've never seen those quotes).
it is flawed, there is far too much football in his career to say that. he's been back 6 months, 6 months is not a long time when can he playing for another 12 years (also we dont see him in training either). now if at 23-24 he is round the same then it starts to be clearer, not at 20, and not when his last 18 months have been so disrupted
fuelledbypassion
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Why are you trying to argue your point to me? I understand the basis of your opinion, and I'm not arguing it. I've said he's not good enough and won't have the opportunity to develop without a loan move. Then I responded to your 'I can only think of Drogba and Wright who developed late' post. I don't know about Macheda, I really don't. It's just really difficult to judge someone based on the odd game here and there, he needs a run of games before I form a solid opinion.
Actually it was about how he wouldnt send him on loan under same conditions as sampdoria he was fuming about how they treated him, and he wouldnt be going on loan till earliest jan, and almost certainly not abroad.
Point was he wants him somewhere were they have his interests at heart (bolton have expressed an interest, among others) though we rejected wolves in the summer i believe
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You mentioned Solskjaer and Hernandez who are/were both world-class finishers, but not world-class players. I was just saying they had something in their game that made them exceptional. Right now, I can't see anything in Macheda's game that could progress to even close to that level. Didn't mean to make it seem I was arguing with you - just pointing out the differences.
@Mike. - Right now and in the last 3 years, he's not been anywhere near United quality. He's barely improved in the last 3 years - probably stronger and quicker due to natural development e.g. growth due to age but that's about it. My point is, on loan he's still unlikely to play as he's got nothing to stick him apart from the players at other clubs. Welbeck has his incredible pace and link up play for a forward as well as being a good finisher. Cleverley has his passing and technical ability. Macheda has no stand out qualities and at the age of 20 you should be able to see a stand out quality in a player (obviously not a fully developed one but a massive strength in his game nonetheless) but that's not apparent with Macheda. He seems "ok" at most things but nothing major.
I dont blame him at all, although, given inter's issues, he should have come to us
.I suspect we will be looking for young hungry players come jan. Also i figure anderson had a lot do with it, wanted to show faith in him, but he went off the boil and is now also injured
Again, Fletcher has something stand out with his play. He's excellent at breaking up play and has stamina for days. Even at 20 you could see Fletcher was able to run for days and play a pass. Macheda doesn't show that in any aspect of his play.
At 20 he could run, pick a pass and had great positioning. Macheda doesn't have any stand out qualities.
his position was suspect, his pass was decent. his standout was having an engine. that wasnt good enough then. hence the massive improvent. the fact that macheda all round ok is also missing the point. we dont know how he will develop, he could end op being an excellent all round forward. or he may stay average. he needs time, judging now is pointless
Darron Gibson has a standout long shot. still not very good
fuelledbypassion
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I think Macheda's main strength is his composure in front of goal. He's a good finisher, has decent touch and is pretty good at holding the ball up from what I've seen. He undoubtedly has potential, but it remains to be seen how much the last 18 months will affect his future development
But it's not pointless. It's passing a judgement based off 3 years of performances. Without game time (which he's not going to get at United or even much on loan) he's barely going to develop at all. Like you said, he's not going to develop without it. There's nothing in his game that makes me think yeah he can make it. He's average. Nothing stands out. Even last night - Wilfried Zaha's pace and skill stood out. Not much else did, but he had a lot of pace and skill. Stand out attributes. McEachran and Wilshere's passing and composure were stand out attributes. Welbeck's pace. Cleverley's passing and technique. Walcott's speed. Ravel Morrison's skill and intelligence. Macheda hasn't got anything that stands out and makes me think - yeah, he's got a chance.
How do you know he wont develop on loan or here. this is my point all along. Actualy Macheda is a very composed player for his age. stand out doesnt matter if the rest of the game isnt upto scratch. 3 years half of which were disrupted, VS the next 12 years.
Cleverley came on after a good loan spell, as did Welbeck. Ravel isnt even there yet. You're writing him off at 20. Again that is somewhat short-sighted. there is no more i can add to what ive said. So honestly im moving on with this. I'll be watching for the next few years come what may.
I haven't denied being short-sighted. They came on after a loan spell where they got games and regular playing time. Macheda won't play at United much and even if he does it will be 4/5 games? He hasn't developed much in 3 years already. Ravel's nowhere near being first team, but you can already see he's got intelligence beyond his years and great skill. I'm not writing him off. I've said about 20 times now, I'm not saying he won't make it. I'm saying from what I've seen so far, I don't think he will. Christ.
[h=1]Is Antonio Valencia Lacking Confidence?[/h]
In the summer of 2009, the same summer that Cristiano Ronaldo departed, Manchester United signed an Ecuadorian winger from Wigan Athletic for a reported fee of £17million. Manchester United signed Antonio Valencia, a winger who was quick and confident and that form was subsequently continued, if not bettered, for Manchester United.
He is now into his 3rd season of his Manchester United career and after 2 pretty bad injuries, his form and his confidence does not appear to be as seamless as it previously was. His return from the ankle break suffered vs Rangers last year was most definitely overcome as he went on to pip Nani for a starting berth in the 2011 Champions League final however since the injury he sustained whilst on international duty at Copa America to the same ankle, he has not been the same player.
One major criticism of Valencia this season has been his reluctance to take players on. For 2008/09 at Wigan and 2009/10 and 2010/11 at Manchester United he has made 1.77, 1.5 and 1.5 successful dribbles per game respectively. This season, this value lies at a lowly 0.4. Has he lost the confidence to take players on this season? It seems that this may be the case.
In addition to this his minutes per chance created statistic has also dramatically increased for the worse. For the 3 seasons previously Antonio Valencia created a chance every 36, 29 and 32 minutes however this season, Antonio Valencia has only created a chance twice in the 5 EPL games that he has appeared in, at a rate of 1 chance every 116 minutes. This seems to be the most concerning statistic for me. Valencia now creates a chances 3 to 4 times less than he has done in previous seasons. As a comparison with his competition for a right midfield berth, Nani has created a chance every 41 minutes this season in the EPL.
Antonio Valencia’s crossing has also been a cause for concern lately. This season his crossing accuracy percentage is only 22% which is down by 12% when compared to the 2009/10 season which saw Valencia forge a dangerous partnership with Wayne Rooney, aiding Rooney to a goal tally of 34 goals. Having said this, Nani’s crossing accuracy percentage this season lies at only 21%.
In previous seasons Antonio Valencia was renowned for his dangerous crossing and chance creation. He was a player who did the simple things well. Antonio Valencia only needed to create a yard of space with his pace and he would more often than not put a cross into a dangerous area for a striker to attack. Since his second injury to the same ankle, maybe he has become more conscious of what another injury could do? Both injuries were sustained on the pitch whilst taking a player on.
The injury and the good form of Nani on the right of midfield has also seen Antonio Valencia finding minutes on the pitch hard to come by. As a result his confidence is also clearly lacking. Given a good run of games in the first team over the Christmas period, I hope that the confidence of the player Manchester United bought from Wigan Athletic in the summer of 2009 returns.
- December 1, 2011 7:28 pm
- Vikesh Chevli
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In the summer of 2009, the same summer that Cristiano Ronaldo departed, Manchester United signed an Ecuadorian winger from Wigan Athletic for a reported fee of £17million. Manchester United signed Antonio Valencia, a winger who was quick and confident and that form was subsequently continued, if not bettered, for Manchester United.
He is now into his 3rd season of his Manchester United career and after 2 pretty bad injuries, his form and his confidence does not appear to be as seamless as it previously was. His return from the ankle break suffered vs Rangers last year was most definitely overcome as he went on to pip Nani for a starting berth in the 2011 Champions League final however since the injury he sustained whilst on international duty at Copa America to the same ankle, he has not been the same player.
One major criticism of Valencia this season has been his reluctance to take players on. For 2008/09 at Wigan and 2009/10 and 2010/11 at Manchester United he has made 1.77, 1.5 and 1.5 successful dribbles per game respectively. This season, this value lies at a lowly 0.4. Has he lost the confidence to take players on this season? It seems that this may be the case.
In addition to this his minutes per chance created statistic has also dramatically increased for the worse. For the 3 seasons previously Antonio Valencia created a chance every 36, 29 and 32 minutes however this season, Antonio Valencia has only created a chance twice in the 5 EPL games that he has appeared in, at a rate of 1 chance every 116 minutes. This seems to be the most concerning statistic for me. Valencia now creates a chances 3 to 4 times less than he has done in previous seasons. As a comparison with his competition for a right midfield berth, Nani has created a chance every 41 minutes this season in the EPL.
Antonio Valencia’s crossing has also been a cause for concern lately. This season his crossing accuracy percentage is only 22% which is down by 12% when compared to the 2009/10 season which saw Valencia forge a dangerous partnership with Wayne Rooney, aiding Rooney to a goal tally of 34 goals. Having said this, Nani’s crossing accuracy percentage this season lies at only 21%.
In previous seasons Antonio Valencia was renowned for his dangerous crossing and chance creation. He was a player who did the simple things well. Antonio Valencia only needed to create a yard of space with his pace and he would more often than not put a cross into a dangerous area for a striker to attack. Since his second injury to the same ankle, maybe he has become more conscious of what another injury could do? Both injuries were sustained on the pitch whilst taking a player on.
The injury and the good form of Nani on the right of midfield has also seen Antonio Valencia finding minutes on the pitch hard to come by. As a result his confidence is also clearly lacking. Given a good run of games in the first team over the Christmas period, I hope that the confidence of the player Manchester United bought from Wigan Athletic in the summer of 2009 returns.
Why MUST a player have a standout quality at this age? What he's equally good at multiple things, nothing stands out, but no weakness stands out either. Messi at age 20 had nothing that stood out as his one strength, because he has multiple strengths. You could say his dribbling is his standout, but that's ignorant to his finishing, you could say his finishing stands out, but that's ignorant to his pace. You could easily argue it's better for players to not stand out at a young age and for them to be more all rounded, so they can be moulded into what you need/want them to be, rather than what their 'stand out' is. Would you rather have Walcott with standout pace, or a player that can pass, finish, cross and with some pace to burn? One player is one dimensional, the other has multiple aspects.
And I'm not saying it's bad for players to have stand out abilities, far from it. Just showing the flaw in your logic.
fuelledbypassion
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In short, yes. He seems unwilling to use his obvious strength and take players on for pace, something that he did so, so well in his first season, contributing heavily to Rooney's great goal tally. Maybe he's just not being greedy enough at the moment?