The Manchester United Thread

[Alcaraz]

So what are you trying say then, are you saying that all nineteen managers in the Premier League should lose their jobs that the end of the season because haven't won the league then?.

Not sure where you made that inference from. You are just confusing me now

 

[Alcaraz]

I'm honestly not blaming anybody. On the managerial front, the man is obviously building the team for the future, but he's being judged by people expecting instant success, which is a complete misunderstanding of how these things work. Van Gaal is notoriously difficult to work with, and everybody knew that all along when we was hired. But 2-3 years down the line, when all the young talent he brought - Shaw, Memphis, Martial - will start ripping ****, everybody will suddenly realize that maybe crazy uncle Louis actually knew what he was doing.

And when it comes to the players, who can you blame really? People who got injured? Because otherwise everybody is performing more or less up to their expected standard, and younger players are inconsistent, which is also expected. The only exception is Rooney, but he pretty much went and declined beyond repair. Can't really blame the guy for aging, can we?

The biggest problem is obviously Rooney, there's zero doubt in my mind that if you've had another "250k a week" striker, you'd be top of the table. Its a bizzare sort of situation where United is an elite club that doesn't have even one elite word class outfield player. Because who do you have that other teams are afraid of? Nobody. Back in a day when opposing manager prepared before the game, he had a headache of a century because there was 5-6 people he had contain to turn around the score if left alone for a second.

And you can't blame the board either, because what can they do really? They have the money, they're willing to spend for superstars, but if nobody is willing to sell, you need to develop your own superstars. That's always hit and miss, and it takes time and patience. Di Maria was one prize that you managed to grab, but after robbery it was obvious he doesn't want to be there, or more likely, his wife doesn't won't to be there, which is even worse.

As many people keep repeatedly saying, history will look on LVG very kindly. It would be utterly mad for the board to listen to those clowns at OT and hire Mourinho instead. Sure he might win trophies for 2-3 seasons with his vodoo magic and Woodward throwing his cash around but even in the best case scenario, he won't leave the club ready for future challenges and it will disintegrate soon after like what happened at Inter. Worst case scenario is he leaves it shrouded in total chaos like Madrid and Chelsea

Under LVG, you are being set up for a decade of success. I'll gladly forgo two trophyless seasons for that.

 

[iNickStuff]

Well I suppose everyone has to share part of the blame. But just like any organisation in the world, the buck always stops with the CEO or in this case, the manager. He is directly responsible for the performance of the players and ultimately, he has to pay the price when things go south

But then that is diffusion of responsibility in individuals. Players are very much accountable for how much they put into their performance, which is invariably out of the manager's hands.

In that sense, then, wouldn't Mourinho be entirely responsible for Fábregas et al. all underperforming?

 

[Alcaraz]

But then that is diffusion of responsibility in individuals. Players are very much accountable for how much they put into their performance, which is invariably out of the manager's hands.

In that sense, then, wouldn't Mourinho be entirely responsible for Fábregas et al. all underperforming?

Not sure what you exactly mean sorry. I personally think the board, players and manager all have to share the blame to varying degrees in different cases. But regardless of who shares the most blame, manager is the first to leave because you simply cannot sack 22 players or an entire board of directors

 

[iNickStuff]

As an aside:

"LVG: 'Belief in a manager is important and when you lose that belief decreases. That's happening now. I can't close my eyes to that'. #mufc"

- Ian Ladyman, Twitter

---

Weeks ago, didn't he say if he lost the dressing room that he would leave? Are we not dangerously close to that, even if the board don't pull the trigger?

 

[iNickStuff]

Not sure what you exactly mean sorry. I personally think the board, players and manager all have to share the blame to varying degrees in different cases. But regardless of who shares the most blame, manager is the first to leave because you simply cannot sack 22 players or an entire board of directors

What I mean is, if the buck stops with the manager, then it just removes all responsibility from the players. Which should not be the case. The issue I find is that whilst the players are more than willing to put themselves in the line of fire post-match - "we must improve", "it's our fault(s)" - because nothing ever really happens.

Which leads to this,

because you simply cannot sack 22 players or an entire board of directors

The latter is of course far from possible. They run the club from an entirely different perspective. But surely there is some way to hold the players up for their actions, rather than just sacking the manager every x months. How, I don't know, but there must be some middle ground here.

 

[Legend Incredible]

:'(

Mourinho isn't my ideal choice but, at this point, i'd have him over van gaal

Maybe get him to sign a 2 year deal?...protecting the possibility of a 3rd year calamity

 

[sunilvk7]

Horrible set of results, any big club would make the right decision and sack the manager. It's clear that Van Gaal methods are not working and players look like they don't give **** anymore.

Hopefully we will contact Jose ASAP as Pep and Ancelotti are not available. Jose lost dressing room at Chelsea so the results. At United it's a fresh start for him and players.

 

[sunilvk7]

Long term is dead in modern day. We won't see another SAF anywhere, so better stick with short term and go for Jose.

 

[sunilvk7]

And as much as I hate to say admit it. Scouse actually has a point when he says that Liverpool have the most stable managerial position among the big clubs at this moment.

Only if you think Liverpool are big enough club

 

[Alcaraz]

Long term is dead in modern day. We won't see another SAF anywhere, so better stick with short term and go for Jose.

Don't make decisions in haste. Jose will undo everything LVG did and with Pep coming, you will see an even worse side of him than you saw at Chelsea. He might win trophies but he will leave you in chaos

For a club like United that prides itself on giving youth a chance and playing attacking football, Jose shouldn't even be in the conversation. I would try and secure Pep for next season failing which you try for Simeone

 

[wii]

Plus it's alright for a small club like Chelsea with no history and just to money throw around for a short fix just to win a trophy

I guess we got one of those DailyMail trolls here..

 

[zzeezzy]

I'd rather stick it out till end of season than go with Mourinho, we've lost our identity as a club under LVG in the way we should be playing but Mourinho wouldn't solve that issue.

 

[Anthony]

I'd rather anybody than that smug ***** at United.
Bad press follows him around like flies on a bullock and I can do without seeing our decent reputation being tarnished by that narcissistic c**t.

 

[Alcaraz]

I read the Guardian piece on Ancelotti. But my gut is saying otherwise. For what that's worth. Shrugs.

Not worth much it seems

 

[zzeezzy]

I'd rather anybody than that smug ***** at United.
Bad press follows him around like flies on a bullock and I can do without seeing our decent reputation being tarnished by that narcissistic c**t.

Precisely, I'd rather go for someone with less prestige like Rudi Garcia over Mourinho, good manager but never right for United.

 

[Legend Incredible]

If we're getting pep, it means we have to stick with van gaal till the end of the season...

Sent from my SM-G900T1 using Tapatalk

 

[sunilvk7]

Don't make decisions in haste. Jose will undo everything LVG did and with Pep coming, you will see an even worse side of him than you saw at Chelsea. He might win trophies but he will leave you in chaos

For a club like United that prides itself on giving youth a chance and playing attacking football, Jose shouldn't even be in the conversation. I would try and secure Pep for next season failing which you try for Simeone

Pep is not available for sure, he will go to City. ManUtd prides itself in winning trophies and I agree, some of his behavior was embarrassing and I posted same thing in Chelsea thread when he was appointed as Chelsea manager. But we need someone who has balls to make tough decisions.

I don't see what Van Gaal is building. I can give credit for building good squad and keeping it to lower number to give young players their chances. Something I will always praise Van Gaal for, but not winning trophies means disaster for any club. We were ahead of the curve because we were winning, now I can see it going downhill if we don't again.

 

[Alcaraz]

Pep is not available for sure, he will go to City. ManUtd prides itself in winning trophies and I agree, some of his behavior was embarrassing and I posted same thing in Chelsea thread when he was appointed as Chelsea manager. But we need someone who has balls to make tough decisions.

I don't see what Van Gaal is building. I can give credit for building good squad and keeping it to lower number to give young players their chances. Something I will always praise Van Gaal for, but not winning trophies means disaster for any club. We were ahead of the curve because we were winning, now I can see it going downhill if we don't again.

Yes you haven't won trophies for 2 seasons now but that doesn't necessarily mean Mourinho is the answer. He is nothing but a quick fix and he won't last long. If Pep does go to City, then you will really be throwing yourself into a volcano by hiring Jose. Pep is the one who always managed to bring out the absolute worst side of Mourinho. Trophies is important but so is having a good image that sponsors and commercial partners want to be associated with

And what guarentee is there that Jose will even win trophies if Pep is heading the City machine and Chelsea manages to attract Simeone. With Klopp at Liverpool, Jose will be up against three managers against whom his record stinks and who have achieved more in the last few years in the context of the resources they had available

Plus I don't think Jose exactly is ready to take tough decisions. He won't give youth a chance for sure. He has his favourite players whom he will never drop and his time at Chelsea showed he can be incredibly stubborn to a style of play like LVG and refuse to change

But if you hire him then that's one less club for Simeone which is fine with me. At this point, it looks like Chelsea who are going to be empty handed in the managerial merry go round in the summer

 

[Alcaraz]

Now I am happy to revise everything I said if it actually looked like he learned something from his Chelsea and Madrid debacle. But just glance at his statement after being sacked and you know he has not