The Manchester United Thread

[Scouseinthehouse]

Didn't part of getting into this current mess and especially stemming from Fergie's final few years be from having signed so many average players and having to get rid of them in the years post Fergie which LVG has done well in that aspect tbf. Honestly if we buy now it should be for quality only or long-term projects like Martial and Shaw who you know can get to that top level.....

I'd love to see a sensible discussion on that as it's a very pertinent point.

But I was shot down when I tried to discuss what everyone outside of Utd thinks on his final championship being a poor side for a Ferguson side that should never of won it (testament to his great motivational skills as much as anything); so good luck trying to bring up anything remotely negative toward Sir Alex with a certain few.

 

[ajt09]

I don't get how Charlie Austin is "average". He scored 18 times in his last stint in the Premier League. £4 million is a steal for a player like that-who is also in a squad with creative players so he should get some good opportunities. I'd have been more than happy if we went for him

 

[sunilvk7]

Didn't part of getting into this current mess and especially stemming from Fergie's final few years be from having signed so many average players and having to get rid of them in the years post Fergie which LVG has done well in that aspect tbf. Honestly if we buy now it should be for quality only or long-term projects like Martial and Shaw who you know can get to that top level.

Players like Charlie Austin should not be even a target for a club like United, so I don't know why you'd ever even want him. Unless it's a sign of the times that all fans expectations have got lower from what to expect from the club which I guess is understandable.

Just because Van Gaal and Moyes are clueless to use players doesn't make them average players. Only problem with Fergie was not addressing CM issues, other than that he left the squad in good position and the one which won league at canter. After that 2 managers mismanaged the players and sold them.

If you check United history, you will see from where we made most of our signings. Squad players are one of the reason why we won league so many times.

Even for long term to work, you should have short term plans. If you don't have proper foundation for younger players to flourish they will either leave in few years or fail to realise potential because of all the expectations on them to carry the team for the word go.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I don't get how Charlie Austin is "average". He scored 18 times in his last stint in the Premier League. £4 million is a steal for a player like that-who is also in a squad with creative players so he should get some good opportunities. I'd have been more than happy if we went for him

Presumably he's out of contract the summer?

Just wondering why QPR would sell so low?

 

[ajt09]

Presumably he's out of contract the summer?

Just wondering why QPR would sell so low?

I'm hearing a variety of stories, like there's a relegation clause in his contract, and aye heard the contract story too. Club is also in a bit of a financial mess

I think he'll do well for Southampton personally

 

[sunilvk7]

Liverpool aren't a year and a half into a new manger with his players.

But thanks for adding the context.

But wasn't Klopp, the normal one reinvented the game and changed the dynamics of the league?

I'd love to see a sensible discussion on that as it's a very pertinent point.

But I was shot down when I tried to discuss what everyone outside of Utd thinks on his final championship being a poor side for a Ferguson side that should never of won it (testament to his great motivational skills as much as anything); so good luck trying to bring up anything remotely negative toward Sir Alex with a certain few.

Nice try by inserting "sensible" word there.

Fergie's squad made as many points and scored 3 more goals in his penultimate season than his final season. His players were consistent. It was **** management by Moyes and Van Gaal that brought us this mess. At least Van Gaal is again reshaping the squad.

Just motivational skills won't win you 89 points on consistent basis. Anyone who use that point and then use the word "sensible" is like 2 faces of the coin.

 

[zzeezzy]

Just because Van Gaal and Moyes are clueless to use players doesn't make them average players. Only problem with Fergie was not addressing CM issues, other than that he left the squad in good position and the one which won league at canter. After that 2 managers mismanaged the players and sold them.

If you check United history, you will see from where we made most of our signings. Squad players are one of the reason why we won league so many times.

Even for long term to work, you should have short term plans. If you don't have proper foundation for younger players to flourish they will either leave in few years or fail to realise potential because of all the expectations on them to carry the team for the word go.

I don't understand what you even mean here though, unless our expectations are to consolidate top 4 like Arsenal for the next 10 years it is not even debatable that signing a player like Austin is us looking in the wrong direction. Harry Kane scored a lot of goals last season as has Jamie Vardy this season, I still don't see them as United strikers.

Also regarding the Fergie squad he left his managers with, I'm sorry that was absolutely poisoned chalice for any manager who came in after. Not only did it have an ageing defence such as Rio and Vidic who were on the final legs backed up unproven players like Jones and Smalling at the time. Not to mention JONNY ******* EVANS as well.

Then look at the midfield it's just even worse, Cleverley and Anderson as legit options for your CM is always a dire situation. Fergie was a genius no doubt about that but he left the next manager with a squad that needed a lot of work and virtually everyone knows that the level of players Fergie was working with in his final years you would never expect another manager to win titles with them. That was part of the genius of Fergie's work, making these average players play above their level.

Fergie also know Rooney was virtually finished as a player and the striker situation was a problem when he left. RVP had a one season wonder due to being kept injury free, but as soon as the injuries came back with him it was to be all over.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

..... Just motivational skills won't win you 89 points on consistent basis. Anyone who use that point and then use the word "sensible" is like 2 faces of the coin.

Well obviously I didn't have your good self in mind when I said 'sensible.' .

I was actually being complimentary to Ferguson and not mentioning RVP having a career year (cue you to tell me he scored 4 more the previous year at Arsenal) and every other major club playing like they didn't want to win the league that season. The same way Moyes, as big a buffoon as he is, inherited a very average group of players for a Ferguson squad. But again, the opinion from most Utd fans to most everyone else differs on that so it is what it is and we'll leave it there to save going round in circles.

Anyways, talking of Klopp, should we now be calling him 'The (Real) Chosen One' after todays revelations and pretend this embarrassment never happened? .

View attachment 188304

 

[sunilvk7]

I don't understand what you even mean here though, unless our expectations are to consolidate top 4 like Arsenal for the next 10 years it is not even debatable that signing a player like Austin is us looking in the wrong direction. Harry Kane scored a lot of goals last season as has Jamie Vardy this season, I still don't see them as United strikers.

Then who are United quality? Go on please. Will see the list.

Also regarding the Fergie squad he left his managers with, I'm sorry that was absolutely poisoned chalice for any manager who came in after. Not only did it have an ageing defence such as Rio and Vidic who were on the final legs backed up unproven players like Jones and Smalling at the time. Not to mention JONNY ******* EVANS as well.

Except Smalling and Jones already played over 100 games at that point and that same Jonny ******* Evans was superb in Fergie's last season. Rio made PL team of the season. They were ageing but with proper training regime, Moyes could have used them. Even if they are ****, with experienced back ups he had Smalling, Jones and Evans for CB position and he was left with 100s of million to sign someone to partner Smalling.

Then look at the midfield it's just even worse, Cleverley and Anderson as legit options for your CM is always a dire situation. Fergie was a genius no doubt about that but he left the next manager with a squad that needed a lot of work and virtually everyone knows that the level of players Fergie was working with in his final years you would never expect another manager to win titles with them. That was part of the genius of Fergie's work, making these average players play above their level.

And what was stopping Moyes to sign a proper midfielder to partner Carrick? Like I said, 100s of millions to spend but didn't sign. Did you expect Fergie to spoon feed that also?

Fergie also know Rooney was virtually finished as a player and the striker situation was a problem when he left. RVP had a one season wonder due to being kept injury free, but as soon as the injuries came back with him it was to be all over.

And then Rooney was among our best outfield player in Moyes season and Van Gaal's first season. When Fergie left, RVP was player of the season material. Made PFA team of the season, scored more goals than anyone. He left us with world class striker, thank to Moyes we were left with none.

Apart from that we had Hernandez who is scoring for fun when given games.

Fergie left us with very good squad with few holes to fill. New manager had more than enough money to address those issues. All that was needed was 1 CM and 1 CB. What did he do? ****** up all window to sign Fellaini in the last min.

Average age of the squad was 26 when Fergie left. It's laughable how easily people forget how good the squad was just because Moyes ****** it up so badly.

 

[ajt09]

Jamie Vardy IS a Utd striker. He scores goals.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother I really do.....

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Jamie Vardy IS a Utd striker. He scores goals.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother I really do.....

Nah. Surely if he scores goals, he's not right for them? .

 

[ajt09]

Nah. Surely if he scores goals, he's not right for them? .

Ahaaaa. I see what you did there

View attachment 188297

 

[sunilvk7]

Well obviously I didn't have your good self in mind when I said 'sensible.' .

Thanks. It's not worth the time to have any sensible discussion with trolls.

I was actually being complimentary to Ferguson and not mentioning RVP having a career year (cue you to tell me he scored 4 more the previous year at Arsenal) and every other major club playing like they didn't want to win the league that season. The same way Moyes, as big a buffoon as he is, inherited a very average group of players for a Ferguson squad. But again, the opinion from most Utd fans to most everyone else differs on that so it is what it is and we'll leave it there to save going round in circles.

Except we made 89 points in the league which would have won the league 9/10 seasons and we didn't even try in the last 4-5 games. So even if all the teams played to their potential they were falling behind anyways. Same squad minus RVP made 89 points and before that won the league.

So the same core squad won multiple titles.

Anyways, talking of Klopp, should we now be calling him 'The (Real) Chosen One' after todays revelations and pretend this embarrassment never happened? .

View attachment 1011482

Someone missed 'the man who changed the football' interview. He said there was no real offer, it was just a chat. Pep was the real chosen one, so save yourself embarrassment with all the "real" talks.

 

[Tyton]

Captain Hindsight is 20/20. Too bad that originally everyone thought SAF left excellent squad behind. The exception were CMs (which were supposed to be adressed in the summer). And aging CBs (which was supposed to be adressed the next summer).

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Thanks. It's not worth the time to have any sensible discussion with trolls.....

Self analysing admission?

Meh, I'll leave it there. I'm getting sucked into your abusive stage and that's nauseating for everyone.

 

[zzeezzy]

Jamie Vardy IS a Utd striker. He scores goals.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother I really do.....

So every striker who scores goals is a United striker? **** why did we not we just go for Benik Afobe then in that case!

To win titles and get back to the European heights which I assume a club like United is aiming to get to again you need players who have the capability to not only score goals but also have the ability to produce them special moments. Just look at our strikers when we were at the pinnacle and realise the levels above they were to the ones we are currently discussing about supposedly we should be going after such as Austin, Vardy or whoever else in your whacky imagination.

 

[ajt09]

Like asked before then-who exactly IS a United striker? I'd assume someone who....you know.....scores goals?

I'm done with this anyway it's so ridiculous

 

[zzeezzy]

Like asked before then-who exactly IS a United striker? I'd assume someone who....you know.....scores goals?

I'm done with this anyway it's so ridiculous

If we wanted a striker who just scored goals then we would of stuck with Chicharito.

In todays game it's difficult because strikers are hard to come by but I'd say Lewandowski is the ultimate one but United will never get him as they missed out. We should be building around Martial and should of kept Wilson/Chicharito as rotational players with Rooney obviously still here the need for a striker isn't urgent if you look at the current available options there is not really any sense in buying these average players available in this market.

 

[wkdsoul]

Average Age of Fergie squad might have been 26, but the first 11 wasn't even close.

De Gea, Rafael, Ferd, Vidic, Evra, Valencia, Scholes, Carrick, Young, RVP Rooney.

most the back up squad were just that backup.

3 of your back 4 needed replacing (Jones was erratic, still is, Smalling has only really grown into a 24/7 quality CB this/last year)

you're CM was pitiful outside of the 2 starters who were also getting on.

Moyes bought bad and didn't replace half of what he needed to, to get the job done. When all the teams around started getting more and more money to close the cushion United had in the market, they didnt replace what they needed to and paid the price for that and missing close to a full window in the replacement of the gaffer. Fergie left a fair bit of work on the first team itself.

 

[dilakh2]

I don't get how Charlie Austin is "average". He scored 18 times in his last stint in the Premier League. £4 million is a steal for a player like that-who is also in a squad with creative players so he should get some good opportunities. I'd have been more than happy if we went for him

Doesnt he have a dodgy knee. Like one bad knee injury away from career over. Plus he is a well known lads lad, not something you want from a pro footballer. Some of the stories iv'e heard about austin in his swindon days...