I never meant try again as in same ideas, i mean try again with something new. Why not try and find a system that suits us instead of copying someone elses.
The Manchester United Thread
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I never meant try again as in same ideas, i mean try again with something new. Why not try and find a system that suits us instead of copying someone elses.
Their way is the best way, they can break through even the best defences easily if they play to a good standard during the match, how on earth can you try any other way????
Also how can you say in a previous post not achknowledging Scholes talent was a good thing for England until he was in his 30''s???? All them games we played with Lampard and Gerrard in the team at the expense of Scholes, broke my ****** heart. Especially when you consider he was exactly what we needed...
Yes you're right we did.. but not because it was "our way", we played the physical way because we never had the amount of players technically gifted enough to play the "Barcelona/Spain" type way. It was never a choice it was just how the England team ended up and the best way of playing football is definitely not the physical way anymore and never will be again, it might of been back in the 1960's.
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A lot of this comes down to coaching, and coaching numbers specifically at an elite level in order to get the technique into those players to play that system.
Xavi was quoted as saying often Barcelona kids team gets beaten often as the team is full of physically little kids, as they prioritize technical excellence over pure size and strength for their age, whilst their opponents often picked the "biggest and strongest". Which seems to be the England way of doing things.
Some interesting coaching information at the elite level of the game:
That's a massive disparity, and we arn't going anywhere as a national team until we actually start to fix that.
Additional, interesting info:
Xavi was quoted as saying often Barcelona kids team gets beaten often as the team is full of physically little kids, as they prioritize technical excellence over pure size and strength for their age, whilst their opponents often picked the "biggest and strongest". Which seems to be the England way of doing things.
Some interesting coaching information at the elite level of the game:
That's a massive disparity, and we arn't going anywhere as a national team until we actually start to fix that.
Additional, interesting info:
Their way works well for then its as simple as that, did Chile and Uruguay play that way in their recent successes? Listening to Tim Vickery a few weeks ago he said all South American sides tried to copy European teams styes with no success, its all about finding the system that suits you and your bound to hit a few brick walls before you find the correct one.
Also where did i say not acknowledging Scholes's talent was a good thing?? I said its the way it was because the "Spain way" of playing wasen't that known until 08 really. I never said it was correct but its just the way it was.
I didn't realise you had to have witnessed Spain play to recognise one of the finest players England has ever produced.
Apparently we are after Lucas Moura, probably no truth in it but seen it on sky sport news.
Agent - United still want Lucas | Manchester United News, Fixtures, Results, Transfers | Sky Sports
Would be nice to think Fergie is looking at midfield targets for the summer though
Agent - United still want Lucas | Manchester United News, Fixtures, Results, Transfers | Sky Sports
Would be nice to think Fergie is looking at midfield targets for the summer though
Joking aside, I would be willing to ********** over the news of United signing Lucas Moura. I know Neymar and Ganso are very talented, but I'd say Lucas is the most talented Brazilian prospect. Mario Gotze is the only young, attacking midfielder I'd rather sign than Lucas tbh.
I'd prefer letting Pogba have his chance.
But I to would be willing to excite myself over Lucas Moura. In fact, I'd be willing to excite myself over any top name transfer. Means people will stop saying that we can't afford to spend money because of our debt.
I still can't work out Pogba, the very few times I have seen him he seems more of a deep lying midfielder though. I know he is meant to be very talented but I have yet to see anything from him in the very rare glimpses as a sub coming off the bench that has impressed me.
Evans was talented and it was clear for everyone to see during his first season. Just had a bad 18 months which is common for a young defender. Young defenders make mistakes and he too did. Even Rio was bit erratic at his young age. Now he has improved and ironed out all those silly mistakes, at least close to getting rid of them, he looks completely different player.
Also he said he thought he made it as United player so was bit relaxed in the past, now he knows he should perform or will be shown door he started concentrating better. I'm very glad he is playing well, I always liked him, academy player, we didn't miss Rio back then now we are not missing Vidic. Thanks to Evans.
I remember saying Evans > Jones as CB and I will stick by it.
Also he said he thought he made it as United player so was bit relaxed in the past, now he knows he should perform or will be shown door he started concentrating better. I'm very glad he is playing well, I always liked him, academy player, we didn't miss Rio back then now we are not missing Vidic. Thanks to Evans.
I remember saying Evans > Jones as CB and I will stick by it.
Belated analysis post coming up:
Blackburn 0-2 Manchester United: United win it late
United recorded their seventh league win in a row to take another step towards retaining their Premier League crown, thanks to two late goals over a stubborn Blackburn side.
Blackburn set out in their regular 4-4-1-1 formation, with the livewire Junior Hoilett playing off Yakubu Aiyegbeni up front and Morten Gamst Pedersen playing a right-sided role he has become relatively familiar with this season. Jason Lowe and Steven N’Zonzi stayed close together in central midfield in order to shield a defence that concedes on average 16 shots per game. Sir Alex Ferguson, on the other hand, changed up United’s usual 4-2-3-1, adding a midfielder in place of a winger and moving Wayne Rooney left to compensate. The result was a skewed 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 cross that often had United struggling to play with their usual fluency, and saw Antonio Valencia as the highest-up player by average position. Phil Jones was the most attacking player in a workmanlike United central midfield.
The match was more about United in tactical terms, as Blackburn played reactive, counterattacking football that nevertheless worked relatively well. This wasn’t to say that they were inherently negative, merely that Steve Kean had realised that attempting to attack an in-form United would result in a slaughter, particularly with two central midfielders (and a half, if you count Hoilett, who played more as a support striker).
Rooney as a left-sided attacker
Wayne Rooney has had another stellar season for United, generally playing in behind the intelligent Danny Welbeck. He’s been scoring and creating – 24 goals and 41 key passes in the Prem – at a huge rate, and is now managing to replicate his own brand of the ‘nine and a half’ role whilst also playing alongside another forward. He is aided in this by Welbeck’s maturity and decision-making skills, with his young compatriot’s forages deep and Rooney’s subsequent moves into the resulting space regularly creating a false nine and false ten tandem unlike any in Europe.
Against Blackburn, however, Rooney was moved left (albeit with a licence to come inside) and Welbeck was rotated out of the team to allow Javier Hernandez a start. When Hernandez starts, United are often less flexible and more direct with their play. Without Welbeck coming deep to link play and create intricate passing patterns with Rooney (and when he plays, Ashley Young, who cuts into the centre onto his stronger foot) United often try to play to Hernandez’s strengths, releasing him with early balls from midfield to utilise his raw pace. With Blackburn sitting deep to deny Hernandez space, this method was unavailable to United on a regular basis, but it is possible that Ferguson played Hernandez, a far better penalty-box finisher than Welbeck, in order to try and poach a goal when Blackburn withdrew into their penalty area.
This, coupled with his withdrawn left-sided berth, meant that Rooney had trouble influencing the game as much as he would have liked. He was hardly helped by individual errors, losing the ball to the opposition as a result of his own mistake on four separate occasions as well as being dispossessed once. He still put in a decent performance, taking three shots and winning two dribbles, but wasn’t at his indomitable best.
Scholes, Valencia and Blackburn narrowness
By contrast, two other United players had superb games. Firstly, Paul Scholes put in a masterful performance. His stats for the game are scarcely-believable: 97% passing accuracy from 78 passes attempted, two key passes, 24 accurate long balls from 26 attempted and 80 touches taken. This means that he completed all of his passes apart from two, both of which were long passes, and all but two of his attempted passes were one-touch. It was with a display like this that Scholes controlled the midfield, consistently spreading the ball to widen play and also keeping it short to retain possession.
Antonio Valencia also had an excellent game, taking full advantage of the constant supply from his midfield to construct attacks down the right and run at the two Olssons. He was a constant threat throughout the match, attempting 21 crosses and putting in four key passes, two more than anyone else on the pitch. He also contributed defensively, winning four tackles. Blackburn left back Martin Olsson could only manage one tackle on Valencia in the entire match, and looked uncomfortable with having to play such a defensive game.
This was actually quite pivotal to the match, as Blackburn’s 4-4-1-1 at times ended up looking like a 4-2-2-2. Yakubu and Hoilett played very close together and looked to work combinations, and the two wingers often came inside to try and combine with their strikers. The right-footed Morten Gamst Pedersen, in particular, came inside onto his stronger foot, whereas Marcus Olsson on the left moved inside in order to escape the constant attention of the watchful Valencia as well as United right-back Rafael, who made six tackles and had an excellent game. With the Olssons tied up and Bradley Orr not particularly inclined to get forward (and tracked by the hard work of Rooney), Blackburn’s play was often very narrow and predictable; 73% of their shots came from central positions. United, by contrast, attacked from all areas of the pitch, though much of their play came down the right flank, where they held an obvious supremacy.
Substitutes change game
With United on top but struggling to break down Blackburn, Ferguson made two changes to change up United’s style of play. Firstly, Danny Welbeck replaced Hernandez in a straight swap, and Ryan Giggs came on for Phil Jones. United then switched to their regular 4-2-3-1 shape, with Rooney playing off Welbeck and Giggs on the left. This did one major thing, bringing back the Rooney-Welbeck axis that works so well for United and allowing United to try another style of attacking Blackburn. With Welbeck’s intelligent movement, United could try and exploit the space in front of Blackburn’s deep defence by overloading it. United immediately looked better and more at home in their regular style, and when Ashley Young arrived for the tiring Scholes they went ahead almost immediately. Ryan Giggs had shifted back to the centre and Young slotted in on the left, with the England winger playing higher up than Rooney did. He looked to drift into the space that Welbeck and Rooney were creating, whilst Valencia stretched the United play on the right. This newfound variety and subtlety was evidenced by United’s second goal: they strung together 37 passes before Welbeck dropped deep, pulling a Blackburn defender with him. This left space for Young to exploit, and Valencia found him to allow him to finish from the edge of the box.
Conclusion
Blackburn weren’t bad – indeed, their deep defending and combination play on the counter meant they were in with a shout until United’s second went in – but there was a certain inevitability to the victory once United switched their shape. United played well as a team, and certain players – Scholes, Valencia and Rafael – had brilliant games. Special mention in a non-tactical sense must go to David De Gea: one fumbled Gamst Pedersen freekick aside, he was a colossus in goal, a far cry from the nervous and error-strewn keeper of a few months ago. Whilst Blackburn’s play was predictable and narrow, United’s changed completely once Ferguson changed the style of attack. It is, therefore, all the more confusing as to why Steve Kean didn’t even use one sub during the game. Perhaps he was happy with his team, which were denying the league leaders, but Jason Lowe and Morten Gamst Pedersen both had bad games, and with a bench containing game-changers like David Dunn, Mauro Formica and Ruben Rochina, it is fair to debate to wisdom of Kean’s decision. Still, United take another step towards a 20th league title, and Blackburn can take some pride from a game they had mostly written off as a loss beforehand.
Blackburn 0-2 Manchester United: United win it late « Dots&Crosses
Blackburn 0-2 Manchester United: United win it late
STARTING FORMATIONS AND LINEUPS
United recorded their seventh league win in a row to take another step towards retaining their Premier League crown, thanks to two late goals over a stubborn Blackburn side.
Blackburn set out in their regular 4-4-1-1 formation, with the livewire Junior Hoilett playing off Yakubu Aiyegbeni up front and Morten Gamst Pedersen playing a right-sided role he has become relatively familiar with this season. Jason Lowe and Steven N’Zonzi stayed close together in central midfield in order to shield a defence that concedes on average 16 shots per game. Sir Alex Ferguson, on the other hand, changed up United’s usual 4-2-3-1, adding a midfielder in place of a winger and moving Wayne Rooney left to compensate. The result was a skewed 4-1-4-1/4-3-3 cross that often had United struggling to play with their usual fluency, and saw Antonio Valencia as the highest-up player by average position. Phil Jones was the most attacking player in a workmanlike United central midfield.
The match was more about United in tactical terms, as Blackburn played reactive, counterattacking football that nevertheless worked relatively well. This wasn’t to say that they were inherently negative, merely that Steve Kean had realised that attempting to attack an in-form United would result in a slaughter, particularly with two central midfielders (and a half, if you count Hoilett, who played more as a support striker).
Rooney as a left-sided attacker
Wayne Rooney has had another stellar season for United, generally playing in behind the intelligent Danny Welbeck. He’s been scoring and creating – 24 goals and 41 key passes in the Prem – at a huge rate, and is now managing to replicate his own brand of the ‘nine and a half’ role whilst also playing alongside another forward. He is aided in this by Welbeck’s maturity and decision-making skills, with his young compatriot’s forages deep and Rooney’s subsequent moves into the resulting space regularly creating a false nine and false ten tandem unlike any in Europe.
Against Blackburn, however, Rooney was moved left (albeit with a licence to come inside) and Welbeck was rotated out of the team to allow Javier Hernandez a start. When Hernandez starts, United are often less flexible and more direct with their play. Without Welbeck coming deep to link play and create intricate passing patterns with Rooney (and when he plays, Ashley Young, who cuts into the centre onto his stronger foot) United often try to play to Hernandez’s strengths, releasing him with early balls from midfield to utilise his raw pace. With Blackburn sitting deep to deny Hernandez space, this method was unavailable to United on a regular basis, but it is possible that Ferguson played Hernandez, a far better penalty-box finisher than Welbeck, in order to try and poach a goal when Blackburn withdrew into their penalty area.
This, coupled with his withdrawn left-sided berth, meant that Rooney had trouble influencing the game as much as he would have liked. He was hardly helped by individual errors, losing the ball to the opposition as a result of his own mistake on four separate occasions as well as being dispossessed once. He still put in a decent performance, taking three shots and winning two dribbles, but wasn’t at his indomitable best.
Scholes, Valencia and Blackburn narrowness
By contrast, two other United players had superb games. Firstly, Paul Scholes put in a masterful performance. His stats for the game are scarcely-believable: 97% passing accuracy from 78 passes attempted, two key passes, 24 accurate long balls from 26 attempted and 80 touches taken. This means that he completed all of his passes apart from two, both of which were long passes, and all but two of his attempted passes were one-touch. It was with a display like this that Scholes controlled the midfield, consistently spreading the ball to widen play and also keeping it short to retain possession.
Antonio Valencia also had an excellent game, taking full advantage of the constant supply from his midfield to construct attacks down the right and run at the two Olssons. He was a constant threat throughout the match, attempting 21 crosses and putting in four key passes, two more than anyone else on the pitch. He also contributed defensively, winning four tackles. Blackburn left back Martin Olsson could only manage one tackle on Valencia in the entire match, and looked uncomfortable with having to play such a defensive game.
This was actually quite pivotal to the match, as Blackburn’s 4-4-1-1 at times ended up looking like a 4-2-2-2. Yakubu and Hoilett played very close together and looked to work combinations, and the two wingers often came inside to try and combine with their strikers. The right-footed Morten Gamst Pedersen, in particular, came inside onto his stronger foot, whereas Marcus Olsson on the left moved inside in order to escape the constant attention of the watchful Valencia as well as United right-back Rafael, who made six tackles and had an excellent game. With the Olssons tied up and Bradley Orr not particularly inclined to get forward (and tracked by the hard work of Rooney), Blackburn’s play was often very narrow and predictable; 73% of their shots came from central positions. United, by contrast, attacked from all areas of the pitch, though much of their play came down the right flank, where they held an obvious supremacy.
Substitutes change game
FORMATIONS AFTER THE UNITED SUBS
With United on top but struggling to break down Blackburn, Ferguson made two changes to change up United’s style of play. Firstly, Danny Welbeck replaced Hernandez in a straight swap, and Ryan Giggs came on for Phil Jones. United then switched to their regular 4-2-3-1 shape, with Rooney playing off Welbeck and Giggs on the left. This did one major thing, bringing back the Rooney-Welbeck axis that works so well for United and allowing United to try another style of attacking Blackburn. With Welbeck’s intelligent movement, United could try and exploit the space in front of Blackburn’s deep defence by overloading it. United immediately looked better and more at home in their regular style, and when Ashley Young arrived for the tiring Scholes they went ahead almost immediately. Ryan Giggs had shifted back to the centre and Young slotted in on the left, with the England winger playing higher up than Rooney did. He looked to drift into the space that Welbeck and Rooney were creating, whilst Valencia stretched the United play on the right. This newfound variety and subtlety was evidenced by United’s second goal: they strung together 37 passes before Welbeck dropped deep, pulling a Blackburn defender with him. This left space for Young to exploit, and Valencia found him to allow him to finish from the edge of the box.
Conclusion
Blackburn weren’t bad – indeed, their deep defending and combination play on the counter meant they were in with a shout until United’s second went in – but there was a certain inevitability to the victory once United switched their shape. United played well as a team, and certain players – Scholes, Valencia and Rafael – had brilliant games. Special mention in a non-tactical sense must go to David De Gea: one fumbled Gamst Pedersen freekick aside, he was a colossus in goal, a far cry from the nervous and error-strewn keeper of a few months ago. Whilst Blackburn’s play was predictable and narrow, United’s changed completely once Ferguson changed the style of attack. It is, therefore, all the more confusing as to why Steve Kean didn’t even use one sub during the game. Perhaps he was happy with his team, which were denying the league leaders, but Jason Lowe and Morten Gamst Pedersen both had bad games, and with a bench containing game-changers like David Dunn, Mauro Formica and Ruben Rochina, it is fair to debate to wisdom of Kean’s decision. Still, United take another step towards a 20th league title, and Blackburn can take some pride from a game they had mostly written off as a loss beforehand.
Blackburn 0-2 Manchester United: United win it late « Dots&Crosses
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Jones is versatile though, having said that it can't be easy for him on the few occasions he does play Centre Back because it is a whole different story to playing Right Back or Central Mid. For me Jones is the future Centre Back with Smalling but at the moment they are using Jones in Midfield as we are light there at the moment. If it was a straight up choice between Evans and Jones I would pick Jones over him, but down to Jones's versatility he is having to adapt his game so much at the moment (at such a young age).
Just proves how we need to strengthen in the summer in midfield, as much as I admire Jones for filling in there he is in no way a Midfielder and he should be focusing his game on Centre Back in my opinion.
I'm talking about present and there is no way Jones is better as CB than Evans. There is a reason why Evans is our first choice CB ahead of even Smalling. He has been superb. I love Jones, exciting player but he needs to work a lot to become good CB. It is down to inexperience though which he will learn in the future but as of now Evans is better CB.
Jones has played more than expected this season due to injuries, but should give it to him. Stepped up big time in the early part of the season playing well as RB and CM. I have no doubt he will go on to become very good player for us, but I was just talking about present.
Oh yeh no doubt at the moment Evans is better as a CB, but I just feel Jones in the future could be a absolute beast as CB when he does not have to fiddle around with covering different positions at the moment (especially in Midfield). Not saying he can't play in Midfield or Right Back (he can definitely do an adequate job there) but if the Midfield gets sorted in the summer he should not need to and will just have Centre Back to concentrate his game on
But for a 20 year old to be filling so many positions for United, it can only be a good experience I guess
Probably is a rumour, where did you get it from?
What is the problem with evans because I mean he has been our best defender after Vidic has been injured! Why can't he be a regular starter in the team? Jones when he started at the start of the season and made those runs from the back then he gave an impression that by working on his game a little bit he could be a great defensive midfielder like Roy Keane!
It will be very interesting when Vidic returns. Rio will be gone in 1 or 2 seasons. Surely he wont play regularly. So we will be left with Vidic, Evans, Smalling, Jones. Vidic is 30. So by the time Jones matures as a CB Vidic will become part time player for us imo.
We have good age gap between first choice players and youngsters. By the time they are about to retire our youngsters will be ready to take the mantle.