And exactly we can use midfield 3 to play Dembele in big games along with Jones to play as destroyer.
We played many games with 2 CMs and few games with 3 CMs. Most of the games we lined up with Carrick Scholes - Giggs Ronaldo Rooney Tevez.
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And exactly we can use midfield 3 to play Dembele in big games along with Jones to play as destroyer.
We played many games with 2 CMs and few games with 3 CMs. Most of the games we lined up with Carrick Scholes - Giggs Ronaldo Rooney Tevez.
Tackles =/= interceptions. Carrick is possibly the best player in the world at intercepting the ball, and that's something that comes with experience. Complete dead end, arguing about interceptions in this situation.
And why do you want a player that does Hollywood passes inaccurately? It's all about correct pass choice. Carrick and Scholes are masters at it, whereas Dembele looks like exactly what he is: a trequartista playing as a central midfielder. It's the same argument I use against Gerrard at CM. If you don't have the discipline to play it short, why should that be seen as a strength? Sure, he can play it long, but Fellaini has the ability to do that as well, only he has the discipline to play it short too.
Oh, and here's the kicker: Fellaini has 80 completed long balls, to Dembele's 47. So I think we can pretty much throw the 'oh but Fellaini can't do long passes' argument out of the window.
So apart from the role you need him to play, he's played every role. Wonderful.
Sarcasm apart, has he really played any other roles? He's played differing positions, sure, but different roles? No. No matter where he's played, Dembele's job has been to drive from midfield and link with his strikers, whether he's been at AM or CM or on the wings.
Quite apart from the fact that Everton really weren't dominated that much at all, blaming an entire team's problems on one player is ludicrous. Almost as ludicrous as the idea that Fellaini hasn't been the lynchpin of their midfield, particularly defensively.
Did you even read what I said? Tackles and interceptions are NOT completely interlinked. Someone can have a great tackling rate, but not be a very good defensive player, just because their positioning has been bad. Their defensive contribution individually would be relatively high in terms of work rate, but their contribution to the defending as a team would be far less, because they don't know how to mark and position themselves.
Stats themselves very rarely can be taken at face value; they need to be inspected with regard to the context. Just saying 'hurrdurr I can add up and 4.4 is only slightly better than 4' is missing the point by a measure of distance not even yet created by man.
No, I just assumed that you realised that United need a defensive midfielder. Which they ******* obviously do. Nobody would be stupid enough to possibly say otherwi-
...oh dear.
Just about every team in the world needs a DM. Even Barca and Madrid have Busquets and Khedira and the like. They're arguably THE most critical component of a midfield nowadays.
And you know what'll help you retain the ball? No, not ANOTHER deep-lying playmaker or a driving midfielder. Perhaps someone big and strong, who can use his strength to shield the ball...
Debunked earlier pretty conclusively.
That's just insane. What team goes out and buys MORE of what they have great stocks of? You have -literally no- defensive midfielders for the foreseeable future with Fletcher's ongoing plight, yet you just want more and more passing midfielders? As proved against City and against Athletic, a midfield filled with passers just cannot compete when the opposition comes at you hard and fast. That is, unless you're Barca, who are on another level with their passing ability and it would be foolish to try and replicate them.
Uh... no he isn't. He's an excellently reliable passer as well, but he is first and foremost a defensive midfield destroyer, and one of the best in the world at it. Literally every source you could possibly find supports this argument, and so do the stats.
I was referring to your reference to the second half of the season just gone, since that's actually relevant.
When you don't have much time on the ball, you want someone who is slight, weak, and has a tendency to misplace long passes?
And Kagawa will. You did enough with the ball from the middle and you'll do even more with Kagawa. What you didn't, and still won't have unless you remedy it is someone who can win the ball back for you to do something with in the first place.
No its nonsense because you dont even under the stand the basis of how we play.
Win the duel to retain the ball, peformance and statisically proven. And no he played the final as a right wing.
Actually its your understanding that is flawed. Two things are vital to controlling possession. Retaining the ball, and the ability to win the ball back when you do lose it. We lose the ball under pressure, due to physical pressure, note Toure robbing the ball of Carrick, and Tiote repeatedly doing the same, and ditto Bilbao. We have players who retain teh ball very well, **** you wont find much better then Carrick, but he is not good at physically holding the ball under heavy physical pressure. Using the ball doesnt matter if you cant move it away under pressure, which was our problem, hence hoofing it quickly and misplacing the pass.This is where Fletcher, Keane, Hargreaves excelled, and why they were so vital in Europe, because they resisted that physical challenge and quickly found the more expansive free player. Defensively you need to be mobile and positionally defensively strong, and against certain midfields you need an actual physical presence. For example stopping Toure's surging runs.
You have talked a load of **** because you want Dembele. You mention the semi in 2006-2007, and then ignore the rest of the key games, also Hargreaves often played the DM role while Scholes was in front. So that doesnt hold up.
What is United's current weaknesses?
Lack of any real aerial presence
Lack of LB cover
Loss mobile physical versatile destroyer
Lack of goals/chance creation from an advanced central position
Kagawa fixes one, Dembele fixes none, Fellaini fixes 2.
Only a fool buys what we have, and doesnt buy what we dont have.
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Jones as a destroyer? Bollocks. You are just grasping at straws to find reasons to play Dembele, trying to make do ( we actually used Jones as a runner, not a destroyer) rather than fixing the actual problem you know exists because you lamented the fact we didn't buy Vidal. Just get a mobile versatile destroyer who has a good all round game.
Most of the key games we lined up 3. Carrick actually sat very very deep, Scholes advanced, Giggs tucked in on the left, Ronaldo high and wide, Rooney in the hole, Tevez up top.
Ok lets me put it simpler terms, I never said Dembele is a DM, i just said he averages 3 tackles per game so he is not defensively liability. We need someone who is good on the ball so Dembele/Modric type player fits the bill.
We need player who can keep the ball under pressure rather than hoof it when under pressure.
Not arsed to multiquote anymore. Same points over and over again. In big games it was plain for all to see how bad we were at retaining possession, hence I love players who are good on ball.
And for a record we dont use DMs. That's what SAF confirmed few weeks back. Players who are good defensively are not DMs just like how Fletcher was never a DM.
We need player who can keep the ball under pressure rather than hoof it when under pressure.
Not arsed to multiquote anymore. Same points over and over again. In big games it was plain for all to see how bad we were at retaining possession, hence I love players who are good on ball.
And for a record we dont use DMs. That's what SAF confirmed few weeks back. Players who are good defensively are not DMs just like how Fletcher was never a DM.
Oh please just because I said we want Vidal doesn't mean Fellaini is as good. Vidal is not just a destroyer. He is one of the complete CMs in the world who can tackle, pass, dribble and shoot from distance and works incredibly hard.
He even played behind the striker for many games and excelled at it by scoring goals.
We can use Carrick in deeper role, Jones in Fletcher role (How we used to play against Arsenal) and Dembele to do creative work.
No, nonsense because it's nonsense.
Quite apart from the fact that you're using the sodding Community Shield as an example of a competitive match, Toure still trampled you whenever he came up against you. In the 1:6 at Old Trafford, he was rampant, and at the Etihad in the return match he was arguably the game's key player.
You know why you gave the ball back? Not because you were lacking passing ability, but because the opposition just outmuscled you in midfield. Tiote, Cabaye, Toure, Iturraspe, Martinez: all of them had field days.
Bolded is the most critical part. No matter what the **** you do with the ball afterwards, FIRST you have to win it. And the point is, you weren't winning it. Not winning it back, not winning 50/50s. Your ball retention is good. At the moment, finding someone who can retain the ball even more is not a priority. Finding someone who can actually get the ball is.
Anderson was never good at winning the ball. He ran a lot. 1.8 tackles per game, 1.1 interceptions last year. Not good figures.
Right, but you fail to understand winning tackles is not the same as defensive positioning. Dembele can win tackles, but his actuall defensive positioning is poor. Right dont see you point on Fletcher, he was a mobile versatile destroyer who had more to his game. What you call him is irrelevant, what he is is what matters: Have supremely good positioning, screen the back four, win the tackle, hold on to the ball under immense pressure, move it to a creative player, press the opposition in unison up the pitch, act as runner if needed, provide the occasional goal threat if needed. We do not have that player any more, we have always had that player. That is a player who needs to be found.
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You realise you've pretty much just described Fellaini, right?
And then when that falls apart, what then? When Dembele and Jones go running off up the field because they're happy-go-lucky types and leave Carrick stranded by himself, what then? No amount of Carrick's amazing positioning can remedy a 4-on-4 counterattacking situation.
Never said he was, but he is in exactly the same mould. Dembele is not.
Jones isnt anything like fletcher, so why sign Dembele to do creative work, when that is not the problem?
Just like I feel yours as.
No. Mike said 4 times so it was just correction.
Bollocks. We gave the ball back as our mobility was ****, no one to pass the ball to so just hoofed it to give the ball back. Anything to support physically imposing midfielders. Most of the times we get overrun as we play 2 CMs and come up against 3. Outnumbered.
Winning and hoofing it back is no better either.
Convenient use of stats. Anderson averaged 2.3 tackles and 1.8 interceptions this season whereas Fellaini averaged 2.9 tackles and 1.6 interceptions per game. Hardly any difference.
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So creativity from the midfield is not our problem?
Are we not just signing Kagawa? Who is a big part of the solution to that problem.
and not as much as getting overrun, as we still create sackload of goals down the flank, and can now create them through the middle with the signing of Kagawa.
So you agree with the principle. Maybe now you can see what we're getting at.
If you have no options, the best thing you can possibly do is retain the ball by hook or by crook. As you said, passers can't do that, since the likes of Scholes are Carrick are too slight and frail. A burly destroyer, on the other hand, could. There's no need to hoof the ball if you can retain it through sheer physicality.
Which is exactly what a passer has to do if there's no options.
Anderson only started 8 league games this year, hence why I didn't use his stats from this year. All of his appearances came when you were rampant at the beginning of the season, not when you actually needed someone to step up and do the dirty work.
I will address this Kagawa point, he plays closer to the striker, not someone who carries ball from deep.
He did few times when played on counter (for example in games against Bayern), but he is much better when played just behind striker. We need someone who can link attack and defense and I consider Kagawa as attacker as he rarely does defensive job in our own half.
He comes up with moments of magic by unlocking defense but we need someone to retain the ball in the midfield and link it to the attack.
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You address the more major problems first. Kagawa's more or less tied up, so attention can be turned away from creativity through the middle for the while and address the most important problem first, that of a midfield destroyer.
So in other words, someone mobile, to link defence to attack. Someone who's good at defending, to counteract Kagawa's own defensive lapses. Someone who can retain the ball, carry it upfield or play it short to someone close by who can do the job with a pass. Maybe even pass it long himself accurately. Basically, a good all-round player.
How about that Fellaini chap? You know, from Everton?
That is what Carrick does, especially when freed by having that mobile destroyer with more to his game( I say destroyer but in reality he is a good all round player) whose role I have just described. We are going to be playing a 4-2-3-1, we will be creating much high up the pitch than in a 4-4-2. Not only that we also plug our other weakness of being physically overrun. Which is why as we have shown so many times, Dembele, while a good player, is not the answer. In fact that player allows Carrick to drop off into space.
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I just have to bow down to this. I said something and somehow you ended up linking to Fellaini lol.
One more attempt, here is my point ".".
Yeah just a full stop, I know you can link up some how to Fellaini.
Err no. I described Vidal. Not poor man's.