Upgrade on every CM we have bar Carrick. That itself is good enough reason. If we can add one more defensively solid player then our squad will be complete.
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Upgrade on every CM we have bar Carrick. That itself is good enough reason. If we can add one more defensively solid player then our squad will be complete.
Yaya Toure and Khedira are far superior players when it comes to defensive positioning. This has stemmed from them starting as defensive players.
The point is, for a position that requires positioning as a key pre requisite, you dont buy someone with out it. I'd rather buy 2 CMs with that key pre requisite.
No its not. Again you ignore the basis of the 4-2-3-1.
craig curtis
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If we sign dembele i would be very dissapionted united do not need him and personelly not that great a CM,plays better just behind STR imo and is not positionally adept at playing in a 4-2-3-1 formation and money should go else where. Good player for team like fulham or mid table team, would sooner money go on martinez,moutinho,strootman,fellaini all would fit in great to 4-2-3-1 formation in possitional sense/abilaty.
You said Dembele's interception rate is not high for a CM, so I gave 2 examples who played as CM from day 1 but still average only 0.2 interceptions more than Dembele who played only one season as CM. Like how stats was used to prove his positioning, I used to analyze Yaya's and Khedira's who would have improved us in any formation.
He is better than Cleverley and Anderson.
I haven't watched him play more than once or twice. But if he is everything that I have heard of then will be good signing. Him and Dembele
Edit: I'm done with this, you think his positioning is weakness which to an extent I agree with, but for a player who played his first season as CM he has done very well. I can see him improving every season and become much better player. Him and one defensive minded player, then we are all set.
I never once mentioned his interception rate, I talked about his defensive positioning, which is poor.You said Dembele's interception rate is not high for a CM, so I gave 2 examples who played as CM from day 1 but still average only 0.2 interceptions more than Dembele who played only one season as CM. Like how stats was used to prove his positioning, I used to analyze Yaya's and Khedira's who would have improved us in any formation.
He is better than Cleverley and Anderson.
I haven't watched him play more than once or twice. But if he is everything that I have heard of then will be good signing. Him and Dembele
Yes, better than Cleverley and Anderson, which reinforces my point. We have lots of cover for the front 4 roles. Even buying Moutinho etc it means we have only 2 quality CMs for the 2 deep CMs, which means if we are buying 2 cms they should both be positionally brilliant, so we have quaility cover, leaving Cleverley to learn and be the 4th. Buying Dembele is pointless as it doesnt strengthen an area we are weak in.
Not today, last time we had this discussion Dembele's interception average was brought into discussion to prove his defensive positioning.
Again something that can be improved by playing time.
Edit: Small correction, he didn't play whole season as CM, he played only half a season. Probably that explain his poor interception rate as he played half the season as AM.
Edit2: Again repeating, I'm not saying to sign Dembele only, I just said if he is available we should sign him along with another CM as he is quality player who has all the attributes to become very good player.
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Not by me.
This is boring, now because you are repeating the same thing. We dont have the cover, but you want to bring in some who hasnt got the key part needed, when there are players like Strootman, available for a similar price who do. That is foolish. The fact that you like him does not mean you become blind to the requirements of the role. That would be thick.
Why buy a player adapting, when you can buy a natural suited to the role?. Of course you're done, because it doesnt make sense to do so.
craig curtis
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Anyone know if the reports are true about chilean STR signing?
Bolded part is just BS. I want to sign him as I like him AND I believe he is good player.
Because he has shown more than enough to prove he can play that role. So every player transfer can be broken into pieces, what if Strootman fails to adapt to the league? Why buy someone who takes time to adapt over someone who has already proven in league?
And no I'm not repeating same points, it's you about positioning and I have already addressed that saying that is something that can be improved. And also I have said 4 to 5 times that Dembele is not the only CM I want, I would like 2 CMs and Dembele is one of them as he will be available for cut price and is better than our CMs. So that itself will improve our team and squad.
Also why you ignore "Was dribbled" part? Which shows he won't let players pass him where Carrick is really weak at?
Edit: Also when was the last time we signed a player who improved us straight away? Some 3 years back if we consider Berbatov which is debatable as we had Rooney and Tevez of 2008.
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craig curtis
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Chilean STR anyone?
Read that we have option till 2014 and either this summer or in Jan we will use it to buy him. Haven't watched him at all to comment on his performance though.
craig curtis
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Cheers mate just caught somethinhg about it online saying we have signed him and will loan him back,also said was the chilean RVN
So buy a player who can improve, but already has the basica requirements, like Strootman? That's what makes buying Dembele think. Dembele isn't even proven in the role! Good one!
Buy 2 CM's who fit what the role needs. Common sense, anything else is wasting money. Buy players to fit and grow into the system, as long as the they have basic requirements, anything else is wasting money.
Role requires a deep CM, you want to buy someone who is nowhere near that. Wasting money.
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Good player =/= correct player.
What has he shown? He's shown he can spend half a season as an attacking midfielder with no defensive responsibilities, and another half a season as the more attacking of a high midfield pair.
Strootman might fail to adapt, but he is at very least the correct type of player, who understands his role.
But you haven't addressed why United would want to go out and buy a player patently not suited to the role when there are better options available. Why buy someone who has to learn on the job when you can go and buy Strootman for a similar price, who is a perfect fit? You keep saying that Dembele is better than your current CMs, but you completely fail to understand that he's only better at the things he excels at and isn't better at any of the things that United need from their midfield destroyer.
There are so many wrong things about the last statement. Not only would Dembele break the 4-2-3-1 box that is what the formation relies upon due to his poor positioning - already messing up the entire team - but United would be forced to buy someone like Fellaini, who can actually break up play. Now this isn't bad in itself, but then United cannot field a regista. As such, it would be tremendously easy for them to lose control of a game.
Oh, and don't try to claim Dembele is a regista, or ever could be.
Lol, nope. All that shows is his lack of defensive responsibility. This is a prime example of why you shouldn't take stats in isolation. If what you were assuming is true, then Andy Johnson, Clint Dempsey, and Pavel Pogrebnyak are ALL BETTER defensively than Dembele. We can throw the net wider than Fulham: Yakubu, Emile Heskey, Hugo Rodallega, Andy Carroll and even MARIO BALOTELLI are all better defensively. Even if we restrict it to midfielders, we get Stewart Downing, Jamie Mackie and Florent Malouda. Tell you what, Dickson Etuhu has lower stats for it than Dembele, sign him up!
Cheers mate just caught somethinhg about it online saying we have signed him and will loan him back,also said was the chilean RVN
Yeah even I read that he is more a box striker (I mean fox in box).
I didn't say we should sign Dembele only. I said we should sign 2 and Dembele should be one of them. If we can afford to buy only one then yeah I would prefer different players. I wanted to buy him as he is available for cut price.
No where did I say we should sign Dembele only. I thought I made it clear.
Regarding your other part, Meh, I never said he is mobile destroyer, Regista or whatever **** it is. I said We should sign defensive minded player along with Dembele. In case you failed to spot it, I also said it along with Fellaini, or even Strootman. Not just Dembele.
Why buy someone who can learn the job and become better player? I don't know. Ask SAF why he always buys players who aren't finished products.
Never said we need him as destroyer. Repeating it for 10th time. I said right from first post, sign him along with other CM (Fellaini) not just him. Re your what has he proved point, he has proved he can play as CM and took us to a ride at OT playing superbly. He showed he can play as CM and all he needs is time and games to improve his weak areas.
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Here's a thought, buy 2 CMs who are both deep players naturally, and can improve.
Now that strikes me as simple common sense. Moutinho and Strootman. Not finished product in the latter BUT HE ACTUALLY KNOWS THE ROLE OF A DEEP CM.
Now that strikes me as simple common sense. Moutinho and Strootman. Not finished product in the latter BUT HE ACTUALLY KNOWS THE ROLE OF A DEEP CM.