The Manchester United Thread

[GodCubed]

I didn't say we should sign Dembele only. I said we should sign 2 and Dembele should be one of them. If we can afford to buy only one then yeah I would prefer different players. I wanted to buy him as he is available for cut price.

No where did I say we should sign Dembele only. I thought I made it clear.

And I made it clear - in a part of my post that you incredibly conveniently ignored - that playing Dembele alongside anyone wouldn't work. Not only does his lack of positional discipline mess up the box between the CMs and centre-backs, but if you pair him with a destroyer you lose control of the midfield, and if you pair him with a regista you're stuck in the same situation with no midfield destroyer.

Regarding your other part, Meh, I never said he is mobile destroyer, Regista or whatever **** it is. I said We should sign defensive minded player along with Dembele. In case you failed to spot it, I also said it along with Fellaini, or even Strootman. Not just Dembele.

Mmyep, covered that already, predictably.

Why buy someone who can learn the job and become better player? I don't know. Ask SAF why he always buys players who aren't finished products.

Or perhaps you could ask SAF where the logic behind buying a player that wouldn't fit your midfield at all is.

Ferguson buys players who aren't finished products. He doesn't buy the WRONG players.

Never said we need him as destroyer. Repeating it for 10th time. I said right from first post, sign him along with other CM (Fellaini) not just him. Re your what has he proved point, he has proved he can play as CM and took us to a ride at OT playing superbly. He showed he can play as CM and all he needs is time and games to improve his weak areas.

Perhaps you need to read what I said, or do you only read the parts that you quoted? He would not fit with any other CM in United's two-man midfield.

He played CM IN A 4-4-2. It is totally different to what Ferguson is asking of his central midfielders. United's formation is by all intents and purposes a 4-2-3-1, in which the two central midfielders have to position themselves deep and form a box with the centre-backs. A midfield two in a 4-4-2 is all about energy. United's midfield two is about positional discipline, sensible passing, and setting tempos.

 

[Joel`]

So we have posters here who said Kagawa can play as CM and went about 2-3 pages about how he can, and at the same time thinks Dembele can't for us.

And again before quoting me, show me where I said we have to sign Dembele only (today) rather than we have to sign as we can get quality player for cut price. I never said he will solve all our midfield problems, all I said was he is an improvement over all our CMs other than Carrick.

People said Kagawa can play CM later in games against teams who are sitting deep against us to provide an extra man from deep in attack. Difference.

 

[GodCubed]

So we have posters here who said Kagawa can play as CM and went about 2-3 pages about how he can, and at the same time thinks Dembele can't for us.

Except when Mike. said that, he wasn't advocating using it as a permanent measure. Rather, if United needed to chase a game or felt confident in their ability to control the midfield with Kagawa playing deep, it could be a stop-gap option. Unlike you, who claims that an attacking midfielder/second striker could play permanently in a deep midfield two.

Cool selective memory though bro.

 

[sunilvk7]

And I made it clear - in a part of my post that you incredibly conveniently ignored - that playing Dembele alongside anyone wouldn't work. Not only does his lack of positional discipline mess up the box between the CMs and centre-backs, but if you pair him with a destroyer you lose control of the midfield, and if you pair him with a regista you're stuck in the same situation with no midfield destroyer..

Which I have already addressed few hours ago that positioning is something you can improve. Which answers rest of your post.

 

[Mike.]

People said Kagawa can play CM later in games against teams who are sitting deep against us to provide an extra man from deep in attack. Difference.

Yup as an ultra attacking gambit, never as a regular part of a 4-2-3-1. Because that would defeat the point, as would playing Dembele.

 

[Alcaraz]

People said Kagawa can play CM later in games against teams who are sitting deep against us to provide an extra man from deep in attack. Difference.

More to provide driving runs from the midfield to try and overload deep defenses than really play it in a double pivot. Agree with you here anyways, Kagawa can adapt to a CM role to give United more options but that does not mean you want him playing there from the start because he is unsuited to the role United generally likes to play with its CMs

 

[sunilvk7]

People said Kagawa can play CM later in games against teams who are sitting deep against us to provide an extra man from deep in attack. Difference.

Except when Mike. said that, he wasn't advocating using it as a permanent measure. Rather, if United needed to chase a game or felt confident in their ability to control the midfield with Kagawa playing deep, it could be a stop-gap option. Unlike you, who claims that an attacking midfielder/second striker could play permanently in a deep midfield two.

Cool selective memory though bro.

Apologies, I deleted it as soon as I realized before seeing your posts. My mistake and I admit it.

 

[Joel`]

Dembele hasn't even played 20 games in CM. Pass on wasting any money to experiment with him.

 

[Alcaraz]

Which I have already addressed few hours ago that positioning is something you can improve. Which answers rest of your post.

Your saying the same points over and over again. Why buy a player who will take time to understand the role and improve on the necessary attributes when you have players availiable who already understand the role and have the attributes to adapt at a greater pace

 

[sunilvk7]

Your saying the same points over and over again. Why buy a player who will take time to understand the role and improve on the necessary attributes when you have players availiable who already understand the role and have the attributes to adapt at a greater pace

Because you lot fail to understand it. Dembele takes time and can become better player. Never said he will address our problems now, that's why I said we have to sign other CM as well as Dembele who can become quality player.

 

[Alcaraz]

Because you lot fail to understand it. Dembele takes time and can become better player. Never said he will address our problems now, that's why I said we have to sign other CM as well as Dembele who can become quality player.

Strootman will take time and become a great player as well. Plus there would be no risk associated with his signing as he already naturally understands the role he will have to play at United unlike Dembele who may not fully comprehend it and end up being a flop

 

[GodCubed]

Which I have already addressed few hours ago that positioning is something you can improve. Which answers rest of your post.

Your saying the same points over and over again. Why buy a player who will take time to understand the role and improve on the necessary attributes when you have players availiable who already understand the role and have the attributes to adapt at a greater pace

^ summed up perfectly. Moreover, it takes more than a couple of months crash course to learn how to position yourself properly, you know. Most defensive midfielders enter their peak at about 30. Why wait 5 years and spend 15 or 20 million for Dembele to - maybe, since it's very possible and even likely he wouldn't - learn how to be a defensive midfielder when there are so many other options available that can fix the problem now, and wouldn't have to learn on the job?

 

[Shiraz]

The basic facts are that buying Dembele to play in a deeper midfield role would be more of a risk than buying someone who has played in a deep-lying role more often. In addition to his age, too much of a risk, and frankly we should not be taking that chance at the moment.

 

[sunilvk7]

Strootman will take time and become a great player as well. Plus there would be no risk associated with his signing as he already naturally understands the role he will have to play at United unlike Dembele who may not fully comprehend it and end up being a flop

Where did I say anything against signing players like Fellaini or Strootman. ****** ****, for one last time, I'm not saying Dembele as our only signing, I believe he can become very good CM in the future, we also should sign one more CM who is defensively sound.

To put it even more clearly, we should sign Fellaini or Strootman (or any defensively solid player available) and also along with them we should also sign Dembele as he will be available for cut price and can go on to become good player.

 

[Mike.]

Where did I say anything against signing players like Fellaini or Strootman. ****** ****, for one last time, I'm not saying Dembele as our only signing, I believe he can become very good CM in the future, we also should sign one more CM who is defensively sound.

To put it even more clearly, we should sign Fellaini or Strootman (or any defensively solid player available) and also along with them we should also sign Dembele as he will be available for cut price and can go on to become good player.

Because of the point that everyone has said: Why not just ignore Dembele, and get 2 defensively solid players who offer more. For example: Moutinho and Strootman, or Fellaini and Strootman, or any cominbation of those 2 players. Because while they are all unfinished, they all naturally understand the role, and can become great players in it.

 

[Alcaraz]

Where did I say anything against signing players like Fellaini or Strootman. ****** ****, for one last time, I'm not saying Dembele as our only signing, I believe he can become very good CM in the future, we also should sign one more CM who is defensively sound.

To put it even more clearly, we should sign Fellaini or Strootman (or any defensively solid player available) and also along with them we should also sign Dembele as he will be available for cut price and can go on to become good player.

You should not buy Demble on the basis that he may go onto become a good CM. I very much doubt he will. If you are buying him its for a more attacking-orientated position as compared to a double pivot

In my opinion, best signings for Man Utd would be Modric and Moutinho. A pure regista and a all-round disciplined destroyer

 

[Shiraz]

Where did I say anything against signing players like Fellaini or Strootman. ****** ****, for one last time, I'm not saying Dembele as our only signing, I believe he can become very good CM in the future, we also should sign one more CM who is defensively sound.

To put it even more clearly, we should sign Fellaini or Strootman (or any defensively solid player available) and also along with them we should also sign Dembele as he will be available for cut price and can go on to become good player.

But we have midfielders who can adequately play that role role already! We do not have a more defensively solid midfielder and that should be a priority. Not using some of the funds we have to sign players that might turn out to be good in the future as a CM. We are in a situation at the moment where a risk like that, if it backfires, could cause us to be knocked out of Europe early and drop further down the League table.

Especially with how strong City are and how many good players Chelsea have bought. In addition, I think Liverpool and Spurs will do really well next season.

 

[GodCubed]

Where did I say anything against signing players like Fellaini or Strootman. ****** ****, for one last time, I'm not saying Dembele as our only signing, I believe he can become very good CM in the future, we also should sign one more CM who is defensively sound.

To put it even more clearly, we should sign Fellaini or Strootman (or any defensively solid player available) and also along with them we should also sign Dembele as he will be available for cut price and can go on to become good player.

And I already pointed out that no matter who you sign, Dembele won't work with him. Unless you end up buying some cross between Andrea Pirlo and Sergio Busquets, playing Dembele as a central midfielder will not work:

Not only does his lack of positional discipline mess up the box between the CMs and centre-backs, but if you pair him with a destroyer you lose control of the midfield, and if you pair him with a regista you're stuck in the same situation with no midfield destroyer.

 

[Vanjagl]

Boring and annoying. He's not even a CM, he's not even a AM, he's a striker.

 

[sunilvk7]

^ summed up perfectly. Moreover, it takes more than a couple of months crash course to learn how to position yourself properly, you know. Most defensive midfielders enter their peak at about 30. Why wait 5 years and spend 15 or 20 million for Dembele to - maybe, since it's very possible and even likely he wouldn't - learn how to be a defensive midfielder when there are so many other options available that can fix the problem now, and wouldn't have to learn on the job?

Again its assumption. He may or maynot go on to learn it, but any player with basic game intelligence will after playing regularly in that position. Just like how we hope Anderson will improve, how Cleverley will improve.

Sign a player like Fellaini and play Dembele against bit weaker teams won't hurt much isn't it? I would any day take punt on Dembele to avoid playing Rafael, Park as CMs.

We have only Carrick as our midfielder, not sure we will keep Anderson and Cleverley has not played more than Dembele as CM. He played as winger and AM on loan spells and this season he played less games than Dembele as CM.

That leaves us only with Carrick as reliable CM. So signing player like Fellaini and Dembele will improve the depth of the squad.

You lot make it sound as if I'm saying Dembele as our first choice CM and given the choice I will sign Dembele only.