The Manchester United Thread

[Anthony]

 

[Legend Incredible]

Please....


All this talk of "they have no leaders". Roy needs to realize his type/style of leadership cannot be replicated today.

 

[Vanjagl]

Simply put, United is better without Pogba. Both he and United needs to move away from eachother.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

It was more of poor performances all round tbf. Some players couldn't complete 2 yard passes. If I'd praise any arsenal player, it would be Gabriel (should've seen a second yellow tho).

Yeah more this than anything. Partey was decent but nothing more. But decent was good enough to make our shambles in CM look absolute rubbish. Knew that diamond was gonna have the chance to be a disaster, having only used it once.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Starting 2 holding midfielders at home? Load of ****. Then we need a goal and he takes Fred off for Matic still leaving 2 holding midfielders? Then takes Bruno off for VdB instead of Mctominay. Its like he set up for a draw, same as the Chelsea game. Playing 2 holding midfielders at home and playing for draws is a disgrace.

That’s where the diamond failed big time. There was actually no shape whatsoever, it was a complete mess. At times we actually had Bruno playing/coming to get the ball next to/from Fred and McTominey. Pogba was playing more LW because he couldn’t be **** to keep tracking there WB and coming back in tho make the diamond when we had possession. Worked flawlessly midweek but worked like ***** yesterday. Always gonna be a chance with a new formation.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

10 touch Pogba. He slows everything down to a snails pace and holds the ball far too long

Then ends up losing it trying to beat his man ??‍

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Yep time for VdB to replace Pogba in the starting 11. Pogba has looked better since the Newcastle win coming off the bench and being an impact sub.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Please....


All this talk of "they have no leaders". Roy needs to realize his type/style of leadership cannot be replicated today.

Sorry mate but that’s an absolutely ridiculous thing to say off that clip.

What Keane said there is, has and always will be exactly what makes a successful side. And Utd have none of that leadership within the group. Solksjaer’s completely clueless. We know that. But he hasn’t got a changing room that polices itself he doesn’t have to worry about that translates onto the pitch with players who actually care, set the example and make sure their teammates care and do the right things.

Yeah, individual talent wise they will flat track bully certain lesser sides and have the odd stunning result. But invariably when they are challenged, they collapse quicker than a soggy digestive biscuit. With absolutely zero leadership or pride among them to stop that happening.

Keanes bang on there and always will be for any side in football at any time in that regard.

 

[Bujakaa92]

Passlines are drawn if the players pass 5+ to each other. Thicker it is the more passing is made. Your back four made huge amount of passes compared to upper field.

Just comparing to Arsenal if interested:

 

[Legend Incredible]

Sorry mate but that’s an absolutely ridiculous thing to say off that clip.

What Keane said there is, has and always will be exactly what makes a successful side. And Utd have none of that leadership within the group. Solksjaer’s completely clueless. We know that. But he hasn’t got a changing room that polices itself he doesn’t have to worry about that translates onto the pitch with players who actually care, set the example and make sure their teammates care and do the right things.

Yeah, individual talent wise they will flat track bully certain lesser sides and have the odd stunning result. But invariably when they are challenged, they collapse quicker than a soggy digestive biscuit. With absolutely zero leadership or pride among them to stop that happening.

Keanes bang on there and always will be for any side in football at any time in that regard.

Imo, a bulk of that needs to be instilled by the manager. If you look at city for example, do they have any stand out leaders? I don't believe they've had one since Kompany left however, it doesn't affect how they play. Guardiola provides that leadership by bollocking the players from the sidelines and making smart tactical changes.

I agree that having leaders makes it easier but it shouldn't be a make or break deal. The game has become too tactical to have that make a difference. If you're tactically being outclassed and you have a Roy Keane trying to rally up his team mates, nothing will change

 

[Bujakaa92]

Imo, a bulk of that needs to be instilled by the manager. If you look at city for example, do they have any stand out leaders? I don't believe they've had one since Kompany left however, it doesn't affect how they play. Guardiola provides that leadership by bollocking the players from the sidelines and making smart tactical changes.

I agree that having leaders makes it easier but it shouldn't be a make or break deal. The game has become too tactical to have that make a difference. If you're tactically being outclassed and you have a Roy Keane trying to rally up his team mates, nothing will change

I would argue that their mentality shifted alot after Kompany left and even more now when Silva is not in the squad. Yeah they play well, but they are definetly missing some unity and that guy who pushes others to make a comback.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Imo, a bulk of that needs to be instilled by the manager. If you look at city for example, do they have any stand out leaders? I don't believe they've had one since Kompany left however, it doesn't affect how they play. Guardiola provides that leadership by bollocking the players from the sidelines and making smart tactical changes.

I agree that having leaders makes it easier but it shouldn't be a make or break deal. The game has become too tactical to have that make a difference. If you're tactically being outclassed and you have a Roy Keane trying to rally up his team mates, nothing will change

City is a great example. No, they don't have leaders, on or off the pitch, and look at how easily they throw the towel in? They gave up on last season well before Christmas and you see it if a team scores on them. Sound when they're on top. But as soon as the opposition stands up and fights back, forget it. They don't want to know. What leadership exactly is coming from the manager? City to me just appear to be following his completely defeatist attitude where he can't deal with being the chasing side. We beat them Sunday that's them done as far as I'm concerned as a threat to the league. Just into November. There's NO backbone in that side at all.

Conversely, the team they are chasing is rammed full of leaders and captains. They were gonna' collapse without van Dijk, weren't they? Wasn't that the narrative? Yet here they are, despite countless VAR and injury setbacks, going behind in games et al, getting on with it, pulling themselves together, and continuing to find a way to win games of football. Whereas City lose Laporte last year and that was that.

One team is a team full of 'Mantality Monsters' who just instantly put adversity behind them, pull together, and refuse to let standards slip.

The other just crumbles when things aren't going their way. Pretty much like this current Utd squad.

If you don't have leaders within your team to sort things out between themselves on the park you have nothing. That will NEVER change in football.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I would argue that their mentality shifted alot after Kompany left and even more now when Silva is not in the squad. Yeah they play well, but they are definetly missing some unity and that guy who pushes others to make a comback.

Your game against them is a great example mate.

First 20, they came out of the gates, completed dominated, and it looked how it should, A top class side in total control of the game against a newly promoted one. Then you had one chance, doubt sets in, and for the remainder of the game Leeds ran them ragged and should have won. The complete collapse from City was unreal to watch.

KDB is an absolutely World-class footballer for example. Well arguably the most talented player in the league. But the amount of times he COMPLETELY disappears from games when the going gets tough and City aren't having it all their own way is marked. And that's right through that side.

As fantastic as they can still be to watch, walloping teams all over when it clicks, there's little to no backbone for a fight in that group from the manager on down.

'Hard work without talent will always beat talent that doesn't work hard.' And that's a pertinent saying here for teams that don't have fully committed leaders to make sure they do work their behinds off and pull together as a TEAM whatever the adversity put in front of them.

 

[Legend Incredible]

City is a great example. No, they don't have leaders, on or off the pitch, and look at how easily they throw the towel in? They gave up on last season well before Christmas and you see it if a team scores on them. Sound when they're on top. But as soon as the opposition stands up and fights back, forget it. They don't want to know. What leadership exactly is coming from the manager? City to me just appear to be following his completely defeatist attitude where he can't deal with being the chasing side. We beat them Sunday that's them done as far as I'm concerned as a threat to the league. Just into November. There's NO backbone in that side at all.

Conversely, the team they are chasing is rammed full of leaders and captains. They were gonna' collapse without van Dijk, weren't they? Wasn't that the narrative? Yet here they are, despite countless VAR and injury setbacks, going behind in games et al, getting on with it, pulling themselves together, and continuing to find a way to win games of football. Whereas City lose Laporte last year and that was that.

One team is a team full of 'Mantality Monsters' who just instantly put adversity behind them, pull together, and refuse to let standards slip.

The other just crumbles when things aren't going their way. Pretty much like this current Utd squad.

If you don't have leaders within your team to sort things out between themselves on the park you have nothing. That will NEVER change in football.

Fair enough mate. I know we've been missing leadership for a while now. I'd say the only true leader we've had post-fergie was Zlatan. He was quite the persona and generally kept Pogba in check.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Fair enough mate. I know we've been missing leadership for a while now. I'd say the only true leader we've had post-fergie was Zlatan. He was quite the persona and generally kept Pogba in check.

Klopp's L'pool are now what Ferguson's great United sides were mate. Full of leaders that are, 9 times out of 10, just NEVER beaten. Whatever setbacks they have to overcome. ****, we had, with the greatest of respect to him, an as limited as they come, bang average young lad making his PL debut at CH Sat'day. Who might well not play another game for the club. But who stepped up and defended heroically in another fantastic win where the whole team pulled together, despite the injury setbacks, more VAR controversy, going behind et al and found a way to win. That's what wins you titles and that's the mentality you need through your whole club as you well know from the Ferguson years.

Keane and co were apart of that and know exactly what it takes to be successful and win titles. Which this Utd group just doesn't contain.

That's all he's saying.

 

[zzeezzy]

I’m so torn on Ole, he can get the players up for a big game undoubtedly but there is just NO consistency whatsoever In the league.

This board will bleed this situation as long as they can until they have to sack him, but right now they are probably going to live off the last few CL results before making a decision.

But for me, unless we win the next few league games, we need to probably sack him. Can’t linger around in the bottom half until January/February and hope for a miracle again.

 

[Bujakaa92]

Your game against them is a great example mate.

First 20, they came out of the gates, completed dominated, and it looked how it should, A top class side in total control of the game against a newly promoted one. Then you had one chance, doubt sets in, and for the remainder of the game Leeds ran them ragged and should have won. The complete collapse from City was unreal to watch.

KDB is an absolutely World-class football for example. Well arguably the most talented player in the league. But the amount of times he COMPLETELY disappears from games when the going gets tough and City aren't having it all their own way is marked. And that's right through that side.

As fantastic as they can still be to watch, walloping teams all over when it clicks, there's little to no backbone for a fight in that group from the manager on down.

'Hard work without talent will always beat talent that doesn't work hard.' And that's a pertinent saying here for teams that don't have fully committed leaders to make sure they do work their behinds off and pull together as a TEAM whatever the adversity put in front of them.

Apriciate the praise!

Definitly it is related to player personalities, but I feel Pep is not a good leadership maker, but definetly some players could made or directed in the right directions with right manager. This is what Klop and Bielsa have managed to do, definetly are others also. I think even Man Utd fans felt it with Herrera who came under Bielsa hand.
Pep usually has had one that does it and controlles the group on the pitch for each of his team. He tries to push players himself being very vocal and emotional side of the pitch - thats a good thing, but might not be enough and I think Ole is missing this. Understand that managers work differently, but if it is game time, he should be the extra man next to the pitch. Specially as we have no fans on the stadium and manager voice can be heard much better.

City should make the switch and try out with Poch while he is still available. He has similar enough playstyle but enough difference to switch things up and bring freshnes to the side. Grazy to think thet KDB is already 29.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Fair enough mate. I know we've been missing leadership for a while now. I'd say the only true leader we've had post-fergie was Zlatan. He was quite the persona and generally kept Pogba in check.

Thinking about it Keane’s a great example. The amount of times Utd lost him through injury/ suspension whatever, and it left you with false hope as an opposition fan that it would effect Utd and they’d drop off now their captain and heartbeat was out of the team. But the team always pulled together, and someone filled in. You ground the results out and carried on as normal.

Flip that to now, and say Fernandes goes down. The whole attitude within the squad would be defeatist and looking for the injury excuse. Like City with Laporte last year.

Thata the difference bud in having that mentality from leaders and not. Obviously the manager sets the tone for the whole group but he’s not out on the pitch and you need leaders to follow his example out their and sort things out when they go wrong in games.

 

[Legend Incredible]

I’m so torn on Ole, he can get the players up for a big game undoubtedly but there is just NO consistency whatsoever In the league.

This board will bleed this situation as long as they can until they have to sack him, but right now they are probably going to live off the last few CL results before making a decision.

But for me, unless we win the next few league games, we need to probably sack him. Can’t linger around in the bottom half until January/February and hope for a miracle again.

This is a fallacy. It's not really about motivating players for big games but he's rather one dimensionally. If PSG decided to just stay compact and allowed us to have the ball, they'd rip us to shreds. Why? Cos we basically wouldn't be able to break them down and they'd hit us on the break with Neymar and Mbappe.

The reason he's good at big games is because big teams tend to attack us and hold onto the ball. I said this the other day to a few mates that I'm more scared facing arsenal than city. They got a laugh at it however, it's not about the individual quality to moreso about how they play.

 

[Bujakaa92]

Manager/ Games In Charge/ Wins/ Win Rate

• 1. Jose Mourinho - 144 games, 84 wins, Win Rate - 58.33% , 2 Trophies
• 2. Ole Gunnar - 100 games, 55 wins, Win Rate - 55%
• 3. David Moyes - 51 games, 27 wins, Win Rate - 52.94%
• 4. Louis Van Gaal - 103 games, 54 wins, Win Rate - 52.43% , 1 Trophy
• 5. Ryan Giggs - 4 games, 2 wins, Win Rate 50%

Only Premier League (as cup trophies can be different level)

• Moyes - 34 games, 17 wins, 50% win rate, 1.68 ppg
• LVG - 76 games, 39 wins, 51.31% win rate, 1.79 ppg
• Jose - 93 games, 50 wins, 53.76% win rate, 1.89 ppg
• Ole - 65 games, 32 wins, 49.23% win rate, 1.74 ppg

To give different view. Saw comment that Klopp 100 first games(League + cups) win ratio was something like 49%
Poch first year at Spurs 49,2% Poch after 5 years at Spurs54.6%