The Manchester United Thread

sunilvk7 said:
I wouldn't say Rooney played as AMC against Stoke. He played few mins there but RVP dropped deeper and created chances. And then Welbeck interchanged position with RVP and Rooney too.

When Newcastle switched we moved to 4-3-3 (4-5-1) , which is what I'm saying we should be playing.

I wouldn't mind Rooney in advanced CM position but I would like to see players playing in their natural positions. Anderson has done well when given chance and this should be make or break season for him and should be given chances to prove himself.
Click to expand...

Rooney was actually AMC. That shows you just how fluid it was. He was the AMC, and yet his movement scored him two goals inside the 6 yard box. That interchanging play will cause havoc against Chelsea. 4-3-3 makes us more rigid.

No, 4-3-3 negates Rooneys best asset, and that his link play with the main striker. Anderson will get his time, but no point making an arbitary change for such a game just to give him time. Welbeck was playing as an inside forward.
 
Mike. said:
Rooney was actually AMC. That shows you just how fluid it was. He was the AMC, and yet his movement scored him two goals inside the 6 yard box. That interchanging play will cause havoc against Chelsea. 4-3-3 makes us more rigid.

No, 4-3-3 negates Rooneys best asset, and that his link play with the main striker. Anderson will get his time, but no point making an arbitary change for such a game just to give him time. Welbeck was playing as an inside forward.
Click to expand...

Like I said Rooney started as AM but IMO he spent most of the game ahead of RVP (Which I think even RVP confirmed after the game). I think if anyone can get heat map for Rooney, Welbeck and RVP it will make very interesting viewing as we were very fluid and it was hard to say with 100% confidence that so and so player played in this position. I think it's bit easy for Welbeck as he stayed wide for most of the game but for Rooney and RVP it was very tough as they were changing regularly.

Against Stoke, it was easy as they sat deep and we enjoyed lion share of possession but against Chelsea we will be pushed back so I dont think Rooney can play bigger role in the final third if he starts in the midfield.

Anyways it will be interesting to see how we line up, as long as Giggs doesn't start we will be ok with any midfielder helping Carrick (if Scholes then we have to play 3 in the middle).
 
SBOYJ.png


And below is the actual average positioning:

pe0da.png


Rooney is practially in the same place, Rvp (20) has been dropping deep, Welbeck (19) attacking inside and Valencia keeping wide
 
sunilvk7 said:
Like I said Rooney started as AM but IMO he spent most of the game ahead of RVP (Which I think even RVP confirmed after the game). I think if anyone can get heat map for Rooney, Welbeck and RVP it will make very interesting viewing as we were very fluid and it was hard to say with 100% confidence that so and so player played in this position. I think it's bit easy for Welbeck as he stayed wide for most of the game but for Rooney and RVP it was very tough as they were changing regularly.

Against Stoke, it was easy as they sat deep and we enjoyed lion share of possession but against Chelsea we will be pushed back so I dont think Rooney can play bigger role in the final third if he starts in the midfield.

Anyways it will be interesting to see how we line up, as long as Giggs doesn't start we will be ok with any midfielder helping Carrick (if Scholes then we have to play 3 in the middle).
Click to expand...

See below.

Actually Chelsea push forwards give him more space, as they are not compressing the gap. Especially if they start lampard. They will have to track his runs or simply be battered by him, which creates space for other players.

Thats why im such an advocate for 4-2-3-1. So much movement you were not even sure he was an AMC
 
Last edited:
Mike. said:
And below is the actual average positioning:

pe0da.png


Rooney is practially in the same place, Rvp (20) has been dropping deep, Welbeck (19) attacking inside and Valencia keeping wide
Click to expand...

Yeah, this helps. RVP and Rooney almost played in the same position.

If they start Lampard then Rooney can enjoy the space but if it is Ramires, Mikel and Oscar then we won't be having much space to attack and will be pushed back because of Torres, Hazard's pace and directness.
 
sunilvk7 said:
Yeah, this helps. RVP and Rooney almost played in the same position.

If they start Lampard then Rooney can enjoy the space but if it is Ramires, Mikel and Oscar then we won't be having much space to attack and will be pushed back because of Torres, Hazard's pace and directness.
Click to expand...

The threat then comes from deep and wide, hence why we must have wide players and not a diamond. If it becomes a battle of the flanks, we win.
 
Mike. said:
The threat then comes from deep and wide, hence why we must have wide players and not a diamond. If it becomes a battle of the flanks, we win.
Click to expand...

Diamond means not a narrow one like Milan, Cleverley and Anderson/Kagawa provided width when attacking.

Also if it becomes battle of flanks, not sure we will win as Hazard and Mata will give any team run for their money and Ramires is good enough to destroy us from middle.

If it's a battle of flanks, who do you expect to start? Young is not match fit, Nani is off form, Valencia is in poor form too, didn't see him taking on full backs at all this season, even against Stoke he was average.

What will be your line up? (complete line up).
 
sunilvk7 said:
Diamond means not a narrow one like Milan, Cleverley and Anderson/Kagawa provided width when attacking.

Also if it becomes battle of flanks, not sure we will win as Hazard and Mata will give any team run for their money and Ramires is good enough to destroy us from middle.

If it's a battle of flanks, who do you expect to start? Young is not match fit, Nani is off form, Valencia is in poor form too, didn't see him taking on full backs at all this season, even against Stoke he was average.

What will be your line up? (complete line up).
Click to expand...

A wide diamond leaves you undermanned against 3 in the middle, its why we changed vs newcastle to 4-5-1 when they went 4-5-1.

Newcastle 0-3 Manchester United: Ferguson’s diamond forces Newcastle to change shape | Zonal Marking explains it better than i can.


Phase two – Newcastle go 4-5-1
After the second goal the away side were clearly in the ascendency, so Pardew was forced to make a tactical change. In 2012 he’s often made switches between 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 and 4-4-2, using Ba as either a forward or a wide midfielder and tucking Jonas Gutierrez inside. Today’s change was different – he moved Gutierrez into the middle, but shifted Cisse rather than Ba to the (right) flank, which meant Hatem Ben Arfa moving to the opposite wing. This was a recognition that Ba was Newcastle’s main attacking threat, having scored all five of their previous league goals.
neww3.jpg
Phase three - formations 56 minutes - full-time
​
The move unquestionably steadied the ship. It would have been natural for Manchester United to sit back more with a 2-0 advantage, but statistics demonstrate the change. Between 15 and 45 minutes the possession figures were now 49-51 (quite a difference from 22-78), and Newcastle had eight attempts compared to Manchester United’s zero. The extra man in the centre of the pitch was helping Newcastle compete, and this forced Rooney into a deeper position, where he defended well, but was unable to offer much attacking drive.



Ramires doesn't rampage from deep that often, and he cant because he leaves Rooney unattended, who will pick apart Mikel one on one. Remember the battle goes both ways, he cant make a run without leaving his opposite man open.

Welbeck and Valencia, who is good form, if not stellar, but more importantly keeps the width and pins his full back in his own half, and tracks back. That knocks out half of Coles game.

De Gea.

Rafael rio evans evra

carrick cleverley

Valencia rooney welbeck

Rvp
 
Last edited:
neww3.jpg


Yeah I have read that article few days back and this is exactly what I was saying (when I said Valencia instead of Kagawa to provide width).

Just Anderson in Rooney's position with Rooney playing in Welbeck's position, drifting centrally.

Also
The extra man in the centre of the pitch was helping Newcastle compete, and this forced Rooney into a deeper position, where he defended well, but was unable to offer much attacking drive.
Click to expand...

This is what I think will happen, Chelsea will be on top and we will drop deeper, and like the article said, he will do his role but I don't think he will do much damage in final third. (I know this was in the first half when Newcastle switched formation but with Hazard, Mata, Oscar, Torres in the line up, I think we will play cautiously, dropping deeper in the process).

If we start like we did against Newcastle then Rooney can have impact even from midfield but if we drop deeper like we did after 2-0 lead (even after Valencia's introduction) Rooney won't having much impact at the other end.
 
sunilvk7 said:
neww3.jpg


Yeah I have read that article few days back and this is exactly what I was saying (when I said Valencia instead of Kagawa to provide width).

Just Anderson in Rooney's position with Rooney playing in Welbeck's position, drifting centrally.

Also


This is what I think will happen, Chelsea will be on top and we will drop deeper, and like the article said, he will do his role but I don't think he will do much damage in final third. (I know this was in the first half when Newcastle switched formation but with Hazard, Mata, Oscar, Torres in the line up, I think we will play cautiously, dropping deeper in the process).

If we start like we did against Newcastle then Rooney can have impact even from midfield but if we drop deeper like we did after 2-0 lead (even after Valencia's introduction) Rooney won't having much impact at the other end.
Click to expand...

That wont happen because you are not playing a long holder, you start with two holding players anyway. 4-3-3 plays into their hands not ours. None of our central players play best as a lone holder, all play best as part of a twin. 4-2-3-1 is easily our strongest best. This game is about us attacking as well, you are not taking that into consideration. 4-3-3 negates all our best attacking play, because it immediately kills off our short interlinking passes.
 
Last edited:
Munroe said:
Oh come on, that's ancient news lol. I haven't heard anything about him since but I'm pretty sure he's still with us. He's getting on now so we should see him playing with James Wilson & co soon enough.
Click to expand...
Lol i know mate its been that long forgot about him till someone was asking about him on redcafe.Will be interesting to see how hes developed bit strange its gone all quite about him,cant find anything recent on google might be due to his age.
 
Manchester United should look into getting Ilkay Gundogan, he has impressed me so much from what I have seen of him and is definitely one of their unsung heroes. His performance against Manchester City was sublime and he has the tactical and defensive awareness we so badly need along side say a Carrick or Scholes would compliment them perfectly.

Here is a short piece about him:

He has the technical and creative ability to play killer through-balls, but it not afraid to slow the tempo and has the touch and technique to do so.

What's most impressive about this young man is that he has the awareness and maturity to pick and choose the moments to play a reverse through-ball or nutmeg an opponent, and when to keep it simple.

The closest active player by comparison is probably another German, Bastian Schweinsteiger, or even Arsenal's Jack Wilshere.

​
 
zzeezzy said:
Manchester United should look into getting Ilkay Gundogan, he has impressed me so much from what I have seen of him and is definitely one of their unsung heroes. His performance against Manchester City was sublime and he has the tactical and defensive awareness we so badly need along side say a Carrick or Scholes would compliment them perfectly.

Here is a short piece about him:
He has the technical and creative ability to play killer through-balls, but it not afraid to slow the tempo and has the touch and technique to do so.

What's most impressive about this young man is that he has the awareness and maturity to pick and choose the moments to play a reverse through-ball or nutmeg an opponent, and when to keep it simple.

The closest active player by comparison is probably another German, Bastian Schweinsteiger, or even Arsenal's Jack Wilshere.

​
Click to expand...

One thing you missed out...he has a bromance with Shinji Kagawa. Reports have picked up over the past couple of days linking us with him, hopefully it's not just made up nonsense because I really like this guy. Having one of his closest friends at the club would give us the edge over any rival suitors, but getting Dortmund to sell will be tricky....I think we could get him for around £20M though.
 
Munroe said:
One thing you missed out...he has a bromance with Shinji Kagawa. Reports have picked up over the past couple of days linking us with him, hopefully it's not just made up nonsense because I really like this guy. Having one of his closest friends at the club would give us the edge over any rival suitors, but getting Dortmund to sell will be tricky....I think we could get him for around £20M though.
Click to expand...

Would be very tricky to acquire him but if he is an absolute beast of a player and hopefully Shinji could sweet talk him haha :P

This lad is going to be a brilliant player in the future, he is quite the player right now.
 
Apparently there's a crossing bug in FM13.
With the way this match is going, you gotta think that the crossing bug isn't really a bug.
 
Puddz said:
Apparently there's a crossing bug in FM13.
With the way this match is going, you gotta think that the crossing bug isn't really a bug.
Click to expand...
There's a glitch when you go on player position page. It show that player is natural in playing central defender, but really, it's awkward for him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

FMBase

Beta

Resources

Back
Top