Never said that, just cant scapegoat the manager and pretend that some of the players haven't delivered.
The Manchester United Thread
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Never said that, just cant scapegoat the manager and pretend that some of the players haven't delivered.
Saw an interesting piece on lack of identity, startlingly accurate. Moyes needs to go from reactive to proactive, not been helped by a frankly awful transfer window.
Can't blame Woodward entirely. Moyes didn't trust previous scouting reports. **** he didn't even believe Thiago is the player we needed after previous manager scouted him for 3 years. He pulled off from Strootman deal who is looking great in Serie A.
If the reports are to be believed we made bids for Khedira on the last day and chased Fabregas whole transfer window. We paid 27 Million for Fellaini, so money was available but it was Moyes who failed to identify targets.
And neither did I say the players shouldn't take part of the blame ... All I am saying is that if this continues, one would assume the manager would be sacked rather than the players being sold. The buck stops with the manager at any club
Completely forgot about the Thiago fiasco, admit it Mike, Moyes dropped the ball there
Yeah. I for one don't mind if we lose few games and meanwhile try to build something for the future.
We lack identity. Clubs like Bayern Munich, Dortmund even Madrid have one (I'm excluding Barca as they are out of this world). Bayern built it for few years but they had a system in place and slowly integrated players. We lack that.
Our game play is so frustrating to watch. Long ball, diagonal pass to Valencia and hope one of the smashed cross finds the target.
Even yesterday Rafael was so much better attacking but he was subbed off and Valencia was kept on. He lacked awareness of a FB to cover his far post and that cost us. Welbeck somehow played 80 mins when he was unfit. Some of the decisions are just poor.
Why not start Nani who was fit rather than half fit Welbeck, Kagawa had few moments so why not just keep him ad sub off Welbeck and Valencia for Nani and Januzaj?
If we don't spend big money on a CM this Jan then I really think we will finish outside 4. Not that team is not good enough but Manager is not brave enough to go for the wins. Someone like Cabaye would be brilliant.
Also what did Anderson do to not get a single start? At least he brings some urgency to the game and only CM who can bring ball forward.
Hang on, where exactly did I say he carried no blame, oh right I didnt.
Agree with that. Our main problem right now is the severe lack of identity. Even when we were playing bad football last season, the team always have that gritty and determined attitude that makes them extremely hard to be beaten and would always score that last minute goal. However, we have lost even that this season and instead of playing as a team, we are now just having 11 random players on the field hoofing the ball. Even the likes of Southampton and Everton are playing way more attractive football than ours. The football we played are of mid table quality, and our position in the table justifies that. If it wasn't because of the amount of quality we have in our squad (mainly Rooney and RVP) we would be lingering below the mid table.
What's worse is our record at home. Even freaking Hull City have a better home record than ours, and we have only scored 8 goals in 7 home games. Abysmal stuff for the reigning champions. And Moyes' tendency to play safe is really ******* me off. He would rather put on 5 defenders to preserve the 1-0 lead instead of scoring more goals and put the game beyond any comeback potential. The result is us conceding last minute goals again and again.
So tell me, what should I look forward to as a Man Utd fan? Our football isn't attractive (nor has Moyes' team ever played attractive football), our results are depressing, and the team selection had been baffling. Yes, I believe the team and Moyes will most likely improve in the future, but would we ever be good enough to be title challengers again under Moyes when we don't even have any football identity?
And where did I accuse you of saying so? Oh right, I didn't
Define identity. What kind of identity did United lose? When we lost it?
Where did I say United lose identity? I said we don't have identity for starters.
United's lack of identity is an ongoing thing for quite a while, but it has as much to do with style as with a lot of iconic players leaving or being on the way out.
Many of my friends (casual football fans) have been ******** that Devils aren't devils anymore. To be honest it didn't really start with Moyes.
Many of my friends (casual football fans) have been ******** that Devils aren't devils anymore. To be honest it didn't really start with Moyes.
Sheer force of will, there was a reason new talent was injected every 3 years. It all comes down to midfield. It needs a projection of will.
Fergie is incomparable to Moyes, no-one expected Moyes to be anywhere near the level of Fergie, especially in his first season! And just because Mart?nez won at Old Trafford once, against a United side in transition, means next to nothing - Villas-Boas managed a win against City in his Chelsea reign, but I'll find you'll agree it was far from successful. One-off wins are meaningless, to be honest.
Moyes should get blamed for the current crisis, of course, but so should the players (and Woodward for the shambles this summer). And yes, United have better midfielders than Everton, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be playing better football, just perhaps that they should be winning more than Everton.
Identity is overrated. I mean, c'mon, wouldn't you rather you won the league playing some 'bad' football (technically there is no such thing as 'bad' football, just winning football or losing football) and won the treble or that you finished 3rd playing beautiful, counter-attacking/Tiki Taka football? And anyway, United had an identity last season (not so much this season, maybe), albeit one which is less obvious than others - they used to be able to win games by scrappy, opportunist goals at the right moment. United's success under Fergie was basically based on brilliant teamwork, with good partnerships throughout the pitch, and the right mentality. If that isn't an identity then I don't see what is, to be honest.
United are going through a rough patch with Moyes at the moment, that much is obvious, but you have to look at the bigger picture. If they sack him, what happens next? After 27 years with one manager, the next step was always going to be difficult, but if you start sacking your manager after six months, then that sets a precedent for rash sackings in the future which will much, much worse for the club in the long term. He should stay at least until February/March, where the situation can be re-assessed, but it's still too soon to make a decision on him. He's made more than his fair share of bad decisions this season, that much is granted, but don't forgot United've played well in some games under him - such as the 4-1 thrashing of Swansea; the 1-0 win against Liverpool (in the Capital One Cup); the 1-0 win against Sociedad and the 5-0 thrashing of Leverkusen! Just give him time, he's not a bad manager by any means.
I completely disagree with the one off wins being meaningless-completely. That one off win could kickstart a winning run for a club that's threatened with relegation, push a club on back pages and give them major exposure potentially drawing in more fans. It could win a club a major trophy further down the line. It could also guarantee a caretaker boss a permanent job-or on the flipside, cost a manager his job. Ergo a "one-off win" being meaningless is the opposite. 3 points is 3 points. And in the Premier League 3 points=priceless. Higher the finish-more cash the club gets
If a win is the thing that kickstarts a winning run, then it's not really one-off. And the examples you've stated are unlikely, managers don't keep their job after one win if they're under a lot of pressure, nor does a single win significantly draw in many fans for clubs. And yes, three points is important, regardless against who, but if it's against better opposition, then it's a more important result - provided you can also beat 'lesser' teams too.
Right? Used to be THE team to watch. Now even the good performances and moments of individual brilliance sort of blend in with rest of the season.
Strong identity is what keeps those sponsorship deals coming and how you attract top players.
Its either that or you're City and have to attract them... with insane wages.
You said we lack identity. So I'll ask again, what is Manchester United identity? When did this 'lack of identity' start?
Are we talking about playing identity here (i.e. tactical style) or club image? If it's playing identity, this isn't true - success is a bigger factor in persuading players to join a club; and if we're talking about club image, then success plays a large part in determining a club's image.Right? Used to be THE team to watch. Now even the good performances and moments of individual brilliance sort of blend in with rest of the season.
Strong identity is what keeps those sponsorship deals coming and how you attract top players.
Its either that or you're City and have to attract them... with insane wages.