The Manchester United Thread

[sunilvk7]

Regardless of whether PSG can do better or not, if they target Cabaye which reports in France have indicated, it would be much harder for you lot

Also whether it's sole motivator or biggest factor, my point still stands. They can offer competitive wages and transfer fees to anything you can offer along with the prospect of guarenteed CL football for whatever that counts

I honestly have no intention of picking a fight, you are the one who is always so aggressive all the time

Even with being champions and CL football we can't compete with sugar daddy clubs. Nothing new here.

Edit: Saying that I don't believe everything that is published by media. If I do that then I will lose track of players we are linked with. Like I said if PSG are targeting Cabaye then there is something wrong with them.

 

[Sherkey]

Edit: Saying that I don't believe everything that is published by media. If I do that then I will lose track of players we are linked with. Like I said if PSG are targeting Cabaye then there is something wrong with them.

I do, when I get bored. It can be quite fun to read through those rumours sometimes, lol;; Atm, we're linked to Draxler, while Arsenal want Griezmann. Could have sworn it was the other way around, a couple of days ago or so. Oh, and Cavani. Strange stuff happens.

 

[Alcaraz]

Even with being champions and CL football we can't compete with sugar daddy clubs. Nothing new here.

Edit: Saying that I don't believe everything that is published by media. If I do that then I will lose track of players we are linked with. Like I said if PSG are targeting Cabaye then there is something wrong with them.

You could compete all right because you could offer things that they couldn't such as the chance to work under one of the best managers in the game under Ferguson, CL football and stability

Now the likes of City and Chelsea can offer those three as well including stability so its not as simple as throwing enough moneh at a player to make him join as clubs above you can do the same yet offer other benefits. Believe me, I am not saying that United will be destroyed if they don't qualify for the CL. I just feel some people are taking it way too lightly as zzeezy said as it could very well end up as a disaster

Oh and I agree with you on Cabaye ...

 

[sunilvk7]

You could compete all right because you could offer things that they couldn't such as the chance to work under one of the best managers in the game under Ferguson, CL football and stability

Now the likes of City and Chelsea can offer those three as well including stability so its not as simple as throwing enough moneh at a player to make him join as clubs above you can do the same yet offer other benefits. Believe me, I am not saying that United will be destroyed if they don't qualify for the CL. I just feel some people are taking it way too lightly as zzeezy said as it could very well end up as a disaster

Oh and I agree with you on Cabaye ...

Recent examples proved that Money matters most and that's the reason Hazard joined Chelsea and Lucas joined PSG (not saying PSG didn't have other factors like superb city and a major spending power) but 2 players in year or 2 rejected ManUtd with one of the greatest ever manager because some other clubs offers bigger wages and agent fee.

I don't see this changing at all. Clubs that pays the bigger wages will get the players.

 

[Alcaraz]

Recent examples proved that Money matters most and that's the reason Hazard joined Chelsea and Lucas joined PSG (not saying PSG didn't have other factors like superb city and a major spending power) but 2 players in year or 2 rejected ManUtd with one of the greatest ever manager because some other clubs offers bigger wages and agent fee.

I don't see this changing at all. Clubs that pays the bigger wages will get the players.

Wasn't PSG managed by Ancelloti when they bought Lucas Moura? Not sure, I could be wrong ...

Also out of pure curiousity, how is Lucas doing in Paris? I read that he hasn't settled well at all

 

[Sherkey]

Wasn't PSG managed by Ancelloti when they bought Lucas Moura? Not sure, I could be wrong ...

Also out of pure curiousity, how is Lucas doing in Paris? I read that he hasn't settled well at all

Too much competition for game time. He's not that settled yet. United are linked to him in the Summer; I, for one, wouldn't mind et all if Moura decides that OT is where he wants to play.

And sure, Moyes' international standing may prove to be a stumbling block, which could possibly be compounded by lack of finishing in top 4. But, that won't automatically mean that we're going to have a horrid time in getting in players. Sure, if we were a former great gone down, then yeah, maybe. But we're not. Our history is excellent, and more importantly very recent. I don't think anyone is expecting that United are on a complete decline, this is a stumbling block until things stabilize.

It won't be as hung out as it is being made of, but a bit difficult? Yes. This is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world, and we've never been a club that overspends like ****. Doesn't mean we've not got world class players before, doesn't mean we won't in the future..

And more importantly, we've mostly brought in normal players, won stuff, and made them superstars, upon whom other teams splurge.

 

[Alcaraz]

Too much competition for game time. He's not that settled yet. United are linked to him in the Summer; I, for one, wouldn't mind et all if Moura decides that OT is where he wants to play.

And sure, Moyes' international standing may prove to be a stumbling block, which could possibly be compounded by lack of finishing in top 4. But, that won't automatically mean that we're going to have a horrid time in getting in players. Sure, if we were a former great gone down, then yeah, maybe. But we're not. Our history is excellent, and more importantly very recent. I don't think anyone is expecting that United are on a complete decline, this is a stumbling block until things stabilize.

It won't be as hung out as it is being made of, but a bit difficult? Yes. This is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world, and we've never been a club that overspends like ****. Doesn't mean we've not got world class players before, doesn't mean we won't in the future..

And more importantly, we've mostly brought in normal players, won stuff, and made them superstars, upon whom other teams splurge.

Your points make no sense tbh. Moyes international standing HAS proved to be a stumbling block and it WILL be compounded by a failure to finish in the top 4. No one said you are going to have a horrid time in getting players but the job will be much more difficult for obvious reasons, especially for top players. I don't think anyone can possibly deny that

History means squat and you know it. To the average footballer on the move, they look at the future of the club rather than the past. No one said that you won't get world-class players in the future but if you think that is going to happen without qualifying for the CL and/or offering them astronomical wages, they are being stupid

Regarding your last statement, so have West Ham and Southampton. What's your point? Again let me make it clear that I am not proclaiming the end of United but I don't know how anyone can sit there and say a failure to finish in the Top 4 won't make this rebuilding job much harder. Anyways these discussions are getting rather bland, for me anyways, as I feel United will be in the top 4 at the end of the season

 

[dasty]

Wait, what? I agree with your call in the January window, but in the summer too, seriously?

So who can we sign in the summer that is significantly better than Cabaye? Vidal and Fabregas is nothing but a dream. There is a reason why we took the whole of last summer to find a midfielder and ended up signing Fellaini in panic.

And it's amazing how lowly people here rate Cabaye. He had made 2.4 tackles and 2.4 interceptions per game, which is significantly higher than anything that our midfield can offer bar Carrick. He also made 1.7 key passes per game and has scored 7 goals in the league, which is higher than the sum of all of our midfielders' goals.

 

[zzeezzy]

Pjanic is reportedly "flattered" with the interest, this guy is the one we should chase if not Cabaye in this January. There is really no excuses not to try and sign one out of these two, despite what people are saying, United or Newcastle? Don't be silly, the step up is monumental, even having one of our worst seasons for god knows how long and we're doing better than Newcastle.

I still think top 4 has a huge bearing on players, like I think Gundogan generally would come to United if we finished in the top 4. Because he seems a pretty level-headed guy who wants to play and has been seen before watching United games. So going to another team like Real Madrid wouldn't be logical due to how much quality they have in midfield, although you could argue Khedira may be gone in the summer, but if that's the case we should jump in for him too.

But anyway going back to my point, however if we didn't have Champions League next season, I really couldn't see Gundogan coming and even if he didn't have a club he fancied. Could be better off staying at Dortmund anyway. So top 4 is pivotal for me... I mean think about Khedira and Gundogan alone... these players won't want to join clubs without Champions League.

 

[rephlex]

So who can we sign in the summer that is significantly better than Cabaye? Vidal and Fabregas is nothing but a dream. There is a reason why we took the whole of last summer to find a midfielder and ended up signing Fellaini in panic.

And it's amazing how lowly people here rate Cabaye. He had made 2.4 tackles and 2.4 interceptions per game, which is significantly higher than anything that our midfield can offer bar Carrick. He also made 1.7 key passes per game and has scored 7 goals in the league, which is higher than the sum of all of our midfielders' goals.

Cabaye is a quality player, I'd like to see him at Arsenal next season if he is still to be snapped up for a decent price. Good workrate, protects his defence well, nice shot on him, vision, technique, and a France international. Considering Fellaini went for 28m, and the going market rate for players at the moment, 20m on Cabaye to Utd shouldn't be a difficult decision at the moment.

(Plus RVP would love him dropping passes on his left boot)

 

[zzeezzy]

Still think Moyes was to blame for large-part yesterday as well.

Returning two players back from the sidelines to feature in the starting line up (Jones and Young) which were to me pointless changes. The team last week against Swansea did well and most importantly got us 3 pts. Then he decides to take Fletcher out and replace him with Jones, who is basically a 'play him where we can' player right now, feel sorry for him to be honest, can't be having any positive impact on his potential in his primary position as a CB.

Moving on, he also brings back Young when Kagawa had a really good game the week before and Januzaj was on the left-wing. So what does he do, he doesn't play Kagawa at all when it would be the ideal opportunity again in the hole behind the striker, to see if he can maintain some form. Puts Young on the left and therefore moves Januzaj to the centre. Admittedly he's got a lot of versatility in his position, but it's things like this what really make me question Moyes.

 

[Joel`]

Moyes international standing HAS proved to be a stumbling block and it WILL be compounded by a failure to finish in the top 4.

Prove it.

No one said you are going to have a horrid time in getting players but the job will be much more difficult for obvious reasons, especially for top players. I don't think anyone can possibly deny that

Hyperbole. Again. If we were any other of the big clubs in this situation, the response would be they'll just spend to be back where they should. So much desperation for us to fail.

History means squat and you know it. To the average footballer on the move, they look at the future of the club rather than the past. No one said that you won't get world-class players in the future but if you think that is going to happen without qualifying for the CL and/or offering them astronomical wages, they are being stupid

Playing for one of the most famous clubs in the world, in one of the best stadiums in the world every week always has its appeal. The future of the club? Like the ?200m in the bank ready to be invested to put us back up there? Again, you constantly state that you don't think it's the demise of the United if we finish outside the top 4, yet it's implicit in every point you make. You say the rebuild job is much harder without the top 4, yet all recent evidence is against you, with none to support it.

 

[rephlex]

Still think Moyes was to blame for large-part yesterday as well.

Returning two players back from the sidelines to feature in the starting line up (Jones and Young) which were to me pointless changes. The team last week against Swansea did well and most importantly got us 3 pts. Then he decides to take Fletcher out and replace him with Jones, who is basically a 'play him where we can' player right now, feel sorry for him to be honest, can't be having any positive impact on his potential in his primary position as a CB.

Moving on, he also brings back Young when Kagawa had a really good game the week before and Januzaj was on the left-wing. So what does he do, he doesn't play Kagawa at all when it would be the ideal opportunity again in the hole behind the striker, to see if he can maintain some form. Puts Young on the left and therefore moves Januzaj to the centre. Admittedly he's got a lot of versatility in his position, but it's things like this what really make me question Moyes.

Disagree with the Jones options, I felt Jones overall did well, and he's one of your best players when it comes to man marking, he was unlucky with the first goal, but playing him to provide the energy and mobility over Fletcher was actually more of a positive decision, as Jones bustling was always likely to provide more going forward than Fletcher.

Young, on the other hand, was lazy, didn't help Evra out, and when you're facing good teams with wingbacks who can stretch play this proves lethal. I didn't think United played badly, with RVP on the pitch you could have scored two chances, just Chelsea were clinical and closed the game out well. As an Arsenal fan, I know if Moyes sets up like that with a combative lineup against us it'll be a hard ask to avoid conceding and to win, especially if Rooney and/or RVP are back by then.

There is a lot of taking the **** out of Moyes and wanting him to fail, but it is mainly because United have dominated for such a long time and whiskey nose is actually held in high regard by most opposition fans. Moyes resets a lot of that respect, and the sense of refreshing a pretty stale match up for many teams (play United, get tonked heavily) is exciting. I do think he makes a few mistakes, but that is what subs are for and a manager who can adapt. Look at Liverpool against Villa, set up dreadfully (manager mistake), should have been 0-4 by half time, and managed to salvage a point by changes at half time. I think United could have got better and Moyes isn't in that 'world class' manager league yet, but can he get there? Yes. The argument is more about should he be learning how to get there at Man United, but obviously Ferguson thought if the United fans were kind enough to him, they'd be kind enough to somebody else as they grow into the role.

 

[sunilvk7]

Playing for one of the most famous clubs in the world, in one of the best stadiums in the world every week always has its appeal. The future of the club? Like the ?200m in the bank ready to be invested to put us back up there? Again, you constantly state that you don't think it's the demise of the United if we finish outside the top 4, yet it's implicit in every point you make. You say the rebuild job is much harder without the top 4, yet all recent evidence is against you, with none to support it.

And also we don't need major rebuild.

De Gea

Rafael Smalling Jones LB

Carrick CM

Nani Rooney Januzaj

RVP
​

There is an argument for needing first choice CB depending on Vidic's performance and we have Evans also.

LB is a must.

CM is tricky. We need at least 2 CMs.

So a LB and a CM or 2 is a must. We have Fellaini who might finally make a step up. So at max we will be needing 2-3 players for the first team.

For squad we have

Lindegaard

Fabio Evans Vidic Buttner

Fletcher Cleverley

Valencia Kagawa Welbeck

Hernandez

​

So it's the case of making sure we have absolute quality in the first 11 as we have good enough squad players.

 

[Alcaraz]

Prove it.



Hyperbole. Again. If we were any other of the big clubs in this situation, the response would be they'll just spend to be back where they should. So much desperation for us to fail.


Playing for one of the most famous clubs in the world, in one of the best stadiums in the world every week always has its appeal. The future of the club? Like the ?200m in the bank ready to be invested to put us back up there? Again, you constantly state that you don't think it's the demise of the United if we finish outside the top 4, yet it's implicit in every point you make. You say the rebuild job is much harder without the top 4, yet all recent evidence is against you, with none to support it.

1. Isn't that why many top players didn't want to go to United last summer? De Rossi or Fabregas. Even then I can't quite understand why you brought this point up... It's pretty obvious that a managers reputation is a factor in a players choice and Moyes does not have that kind of stellar record

2. You think it's simply about throwing money at players and normally I would agree with you but really, you have to understand that their is a lot of competition now. The likes of City and Chelsea can also offer that type of money plus CL football plus the chance to work under great managers. Agreed that they can't possibly buy all the top players but if they enter a chase for a player, odds are that they will be favoured

All I am saying is that attracting new players will be much harder if you fail to qualify for the CL because A) Your manager is not a big-name and failing to qualify for the CL won't do any good to his reputation, B) Your rivals for transfer targets can also offer comparative wages and transfer fees which means you can't exactly entice players on money alone

 

[Alcaraz]

And also we don't need major rebuild.

De Gea

Rafael Smalling Jones LB

Carrick CM

Nani Rooney Januzaj

RVP
​

There is an argument for needing first choice CB depending on Vidic's performance and we have Evans also.

LB is a must.

CM is tricky. We need at least 2 CMs.

So a LB and a CM or 2 is a must. We have Fellaini who might finally make a step up. So at max we will be needing 2-3 players for the first team.

For squad we have

Lindegaard

Fabio Evans Vidic Buttner

Fletcher Cleverley

Valencia Kagawa Welbeck

Hernandez

​

So it's the case of making sure we have absolute quality in the first 11 as we have good enough squad players.

Still you agree that failing to qualify for the CL would make it harder to entice players to come to United? Because that's my sole point all along ... Also you have to remember that while you spend the summer spending to try and catch up, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and City will not exactly be sitting on their arses waiting for you to do so

I just don't think you lot should treat a failure to qualify for the CL so lightly that's all

 

[sunilvk7]

I didn't know ManUtd had a bid accepted for De Rossi and Fabregas and players turned down the move.. Should have missed most of the summer rumors then.

 

[Joel`]

1. Isn't that why many top players didn't want to go to United last summer? De Rossi or Fabregas. Even then I can't quite understand why you brought this point up... It's pretty obvious that a managers reputation is a factor in a players choice and Moyes does not have that kind of stellar record

2. You think it's simply about throwing money at players and normally I would agree with you but really, you have to understand that their is a lot of competition now. The likes of City and Chelsea can also offer that type of money plus CL football plus the chance to work under great managers. Agreed that they can't possibly buy all the top players but if they enter a chase for a player, odds are that they will be favoured

All I am saying is that attracting new players will be much harder if you fail to qualify for the CL because A) Your manager is not a big-name and failing to qualify for the CL won't do any good to his reputation, B) Your rivals for transfer targets can also offer comparative wages and transfer fees which means you can't exactly entice players on money alone

1. Again, proof? Fabregas was never realistic, De Rossi gave a verbal agreement that he wouldn't leave Roma after a certain date, and we came in after that date. I don't recall seeing a single quote in even the gutters of the media that said a player thought, "Davey Moyes, nah you can **** off".

2. I didn't say that in the slightest. You're really gonna quote Chelsea and City in an argument about whether you need CL to attract players? Really? Don't forget, I'm not saying this because it's United, I said it when Chelsea wanted to sack AVB after he lost a game too.

You said it yourself, players look to the future. Players aren't imbeciles and they know that, when City and Chelsea first came about, that with their spending power they'd sooner or later be not only in the CL, but challenging for it. By the same token, players aren't imbeciles and know that a club of our stature and size, with the money we have to invest, aren't going to be in this position for long. Our squad isn't even awful, it lacks quality in a few key areas.

 

[sunilvk7]

Still you agree that failing to qualify for the CL would make it harder to entice players to come to United? Because that's my sole point all along ... Also you have to remember that while you spend the summer spending to try and catch up, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and City will not exactly be sitting on their arses waiting for you to do so

I just don't think you lot should treat a failure to qualify for the CL so lightly that's all

How many times do I need to remind you that players moved to clubs with no CL whatsoever just because clubs offered massive wages?

Chelsea, City, Arsenal can sign whomever they want, at the end of the day what matters is scope of improvement. Where can City improve and do the players they need to are available? I don't think so. But for ManUtd there is a massive scope of improvement and players will be available.

When players move to clubs (with no past glory at all in their recent history) just because they offer wages, why don't they move to ManUtd who are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and by far the biggest in UK? Just because they missed out on CL for 1 year? Meh.

Wonder did anyone tell likes of Pirlo, Vidal and few others that Conte is in experienced and they don't have CL when they moved.

 

[Alcaraz]

How many times do I need to remind you that players moved to clubs with no CL whatsoever just because clubs offered massive wages?

Chelsea, City, Arsenal can sign whomever they want, at the end of the day what matters is scope of improvement. Where can City improve and do the players they need to are available? I don't think so. But for ManUtd there is a massive scope of improvement and players will be available.

When players move to clubs (with no past glory at all in their recent history) just because they offer wages, why don't they move to ManUtd who are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and by far the biggest in UK? Just because they missed out on CL for 1 year? Meh.

Wonder did anyone tell likes of Pirlo, Vidal and few others that Conte is in experienced and they don't have CL when they moved.

Lets face it though, everyone thought Pirlo was done and dusted. Hardly any other big team was genuinely interested in Vidal

Oh and look again I agree with you on the wage part totally ... Argh was going to type it out but the argument is going around in circles so I prefer to end it. Can't seem to get my point across properly and can't really grasp yours as well. Happy to agree to disagree?

Anyways apparently United are interested in Moreno. Not sure if he is ready for the EPL though ... Very talented player either way