The Manchester United Thread

[zzeezzy]

3 summers. As much as you want to forget it Moyes first season was also with Woodward.

Yeah forgot Juan Mata. That's 4 big name signings in 5 transfer windows. Big deal.

You talk about we spent money like no mans business but you fail to see the context. Intentional? I'm sure it's intentional. How many players have left United in the last 2 years? How many replacements do we need to sign? Only 5 or 6 players are left from Fergie squad, so to replace them you have spend money.

Wait, Glazers allowed United to spend money. I thought they are the root of all evil.

Glazers allow a club to spend its own debt money, wow aren't I the grateful one then. All this budget they have supposedly given us we could of got from our own money we have paid back in dept repayments over the years. Probably way more money we would of had actually.

But anyway this is getting away from the point, we can argue all day long about this but Woodward has a galactico vision and there is no even debate about this anymore.

I don't really understand what players who have left have got to do with this either? They have mostly been average or over the hill players who once were something. Or in the case of Di Maria and Falcao, galactico signings that failed miserably and had to go after one season.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

You need to re-read how Coefficient points work.

Next season 2011-12 points won't be considered, so 4 point advantage is gone.
This season 8 English clubs started and 2 are already eliminated. So total will be divided by 8.
Italy started with 6 and 5 are still there. So total will be divided by 6.

It's not just aggregate. It's total divided by number of teams started in Europe.

I know exactly how it's worked out ta. The point you've misguidedly picked up on was that we currently have one more team capable of adding more points the knockouts than the Italians do. Given they've gained nottin' on us this year thus far.

Even taking into account the 5 year cycle from next year, we'd still have to do exceptionally bad and Italy exceptionally well to be overtaking in 2017.

Total if somewhat related aside, but I personally think the 4th Champions League spot should be given to the FA Cup winners regardless. It would make everything in England so much more competitive and doubtless improve the overall product.

 

[steveorobbo]

Steve, we still hold a healthy advantage over Italy. There's no danger of England losing the 4th place any time soon and certainly not next season.

Plus we have 6 teams left in still to their 5 so they'd have to another second half the European season like last and us not to begin threatening immediately.

No there is a big threat. It will come in to play at the end of next season. So its the Champions League places for the 17/18 season. The co-efficients work over the previous 5 years. So our 2011 final appearence wouldnt be counted. In the years that will be counted, we have had 2 group stage exits along with City. Knocked out of the Europa early along with City (if they made it into it by finishing 3rd). We have had no semi-finalists for a good few years. Juventus have a final appearance, also other teams going to the latter stages of the Europa. Unless our 3 remaining teams go far, and im talking two of the three in the semi's, and good runs from us and Liverpool/Spurs in the Europa (Southampton also failed to qualify which has a big effect), we will lose our 4th place come the end of next season.

 

[Equilibrio]

3 summers. As much as you want to forget it Moyes first season was also with Woodward.

Yeah forgot Juan Mata. That's 4 big name signings in 5 transfer windows. Big deal.

You talk about we spent money like no mans business but you fail to see the context. Intentional? I'm sure it's intentional. How many players have left United in the last 2 years? How many replacements do we need to sign? Only 5 or 6 players are left from Fergie squad, so to replace them you have spend money.

Wait, Glazers allowed United to spend money. I thought they are the root of all evil.

Glazers aren't the problem, it's Louis.His training methods, tactics are oriented on keeping the ball, which is something the fergie era players are not used to, so they didn't work in the system, what did he do?He sold them of course.The real kick in the teeth for me?Chicharito, scoring goals for fun at Leverkusen while we watch united try helplessly to up the tempo against Southampton and finally lose to a late goal...Really, yesterday night's loss was saddening

 

[steveorobbo]

I know exactly how it's worked out ta. The point you've misguidedly picked up on was that we currently have one more team capable of adding more points the knockouts than the Italians do. Given they've gained nottin' on us this year thus far.

Even taking into account the 5 year cycle from next year, we'd still have to do exceptionally bad and Italy exceptionally well to be overtaking in 2017.

Total if somewhat related aside, but I personally think the 4th Champions League spot should be given to the FA Cup winners regardless. It would make everything in England so much more competitive and doubtless improve the overall product.

In the Champions League, we have three and they have 2. Chances are Roma will be out playing Real. Juventus v Bayern is a coin toss. If Juve lose thats 2 out. Two of ours will probably be out at the same stage also. Arsenal and Chelsea. That only leaves City, but barring a good draw, they will probably be gone in the next round.

In the Europa we have 3 each. But the key game is Fiorentina v Spurs. All our other are expected to progress. If fiorentina beat Spurs, thats a massive plus for the Italians co-efficient aswell. Its really close at the moment. And our CL exit, plus Southamptons failure to qualify has put them in the driving seat really.

 

[sunilvk7]

Glazers allow a club to spend its own debt money, wow aren't I the grateful one then. All this budget they have supposedly given us we could of got from our own money we have paid back in dept repayments over the years. Probably way more money we would of had actually.

But anyway this is getting away from the point, we can argue all day long about this but Woodward has a galactico vision and there is no even debate about this anymore.

I don't really understand what players who have left have got to do with this either? They have mostly been average or over the hill players who once were something. Or in the case of Di Maria and Falcao, galactico signings that failed miserably and had to go after one season.

You don't understand what's the point of playing leaving? We would have had 6 players in the squad if they were not replaced. So just to fill out the squad you have to spend money.

Go back and check what was our commercial income in 1990s and in 2004, see the percentage increase and see how much it increased once they took over.

 

[sunilvk7]

I know exactly how it's worked out ta. The point you've misguidedly picked up on was that we currently have one more team capable of adding more points the knockouts than the Italians do. Given they've gained nottin' on us this year thus far.

Even taking into account the 5 year cycle from next year, we'd still have to do exceptionally bad and Italy exceptionally well to be overtaking in 2017.

Total if somewhat related aside, but I personally think the 4th Champions League spot should be given to the FA Cup winners regardless. It would make everything in England so much more competitive and doubtless improve the overall product.

England having more teams won't make difference as they have 2 eliminated already. So total will be divided by 8, whereas Italy's total will be divided by 6. That itself gives them advantage as england have 2 teams eliminated whereas Italy have 1. So England have to do better than Italy to cover the difference.

Italy and England are seperated by 3 points. In 2011-12 England made 4 points more than Italy. So at the start of next season England will be behind Italy if both England and Italy perform same this season (England are already doing worse).

 

[steveorobbo]

Another key factor is how this seasons top 4 end up. If Leicester and Spurs get top 4, can we honestly say they will do anything in the Champions League next season? Spurs maybe, but because of their poor co-efficient, they would likely be in pot 3, maybe 4, so could end up with a tough group. Same goes for Leicester. Not a chance would they get out of a group from pot 4. Infact I would go as far as to say they could be fighting relegation next season if they qualified for the Champions League. Playing Saturday/Sunday - Tuesday/Wednesday will be a big strain on them. Plus if they lose their key players from this season, its a complete rebuild job. The key players need replacing, plus a load of extra players to build a squad capable of rotation for all the extra games.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

In the Champions League, we have three and they have 2. Chances are Roma will be out playing Real. Juventus v Bayern is a coin toss. If Juve lose thats 2 out. Two of ours will probably be out at the same stage also. Arsenal and Chelsea. That only leaves City, but barring a good draw, they will probably be gone in the next round.

In the Europa we have 3 each. But the key game is Fiorentina v Spurs. All our other are expected to progress. If fiorentina beat Spurs, thats a massive plus for the Italians co-efficient aswell. Its really close at the moment. And our CL exit, plus Southamptons failure to qualify has put them in the driving seat really.

Lot of continued presumptions that we'll do exceptionally bad the knockouts and they won't. And the same again next year.

It's not as imminent a threat as is being made out unless you believe that will happen.

 

[sunilvk7]

Lot of continued presumptions that we'll do exceptionally bad the knockouts and they won't. And the same again next year.

It's not as imminent a threat as is being made out unless you believe that will happen.

Wrong. Italian should just match England next season and that's it. 4th place is gone.

 

[steveorobbo]

Lot of continued presumptions that we'll do exceptionally bad the knockouts and they won't. And the same again next year.

It's not as imminent a threat as is being made out unless you believe that will happen.

But history backs up the fact that they will do well and we wont. Our clubs dont take the Europa seriously. Theirs do. They dont have all the extra games and strain like we do. We will put a **** team out, as will Liverpool probably. The Europa is primarily used to rotate the team, saving ther best for weekend. Only Spurs have to play a strong team really if they are to beat Fiorentina. When February comes and it time for the Europa, if Spurs are still in the top 4, maybe even 3rd by then, and have a comfortable gap to 5th, they will almost certainly prioritise the League over a Europa run.

Same with us if we are closing the gap to 4th, or if we are already in 4th by then. The league will take priority. So Europa league exits are imminent. The Italians take it seriously. Always have done. We dont. No reason to think otherwise.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Wrong. Italian should just match England next season and that's it. 4th place is gone.

Bookmark this. Please bump it at the ned of next year. Tell us again it's wrong.

 

[steveorobbo]

So many ifs...
As this season shows, u should not underestimate some teams. Cant see Spurs losing anyone if they go to CL. Maybe LEI will lose Machrez, but still CL might bring him around. Good addition to teams and they are good to go.

Man City couldnt even get out of a tough group from pot 3/4 when they qualified, and look at the players they had. Do you honestly think Leicester would qualify from pot 4? Not a chance. And also continue to perform in the league? Nah.

 

[sunilvk7]

Bookmark this. Please bump it at the ned of next year. Tell us again it's wrong.

Which brings back the initial point.I doubt you know how coefficients work seeing your posts.

 

[Equilibrio]

Nah, England's keeping it's 4th place trophy no doubt.
Juve will almost certainly lose to Bayern, the way they are going, Roma will lose to real.I really feel that Chelsea will win against PSG this season after what happened last season, you can bet on City going through against kyiv while United have the potential to make a deep run into the Europa league(dortmund's got their name minted on the trophy already, though)Spurs could beat fiorentina and make a deepish run too, I don't think that will result in England losing the 4th place trophy, will it?

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Which brings back the initial point.I doubt you know how coefficients work seeing your posts.

Dito. Remember to bump the 'wrong' post at the end of next year.

 

[Tyton]

Lol, did you guys see all this drama in the media about Mourinho allegedly writing a letter to United board with a repair plan?

Jesus Christ, the journos just have no shame anymore, do they? Mourinho and LVG are very old friends. Jose went on record countless times that he learned a lot while working with Van Gaal. LVG's wife knows Mou's wife. Their kids know each other.

Do these scumbags seriously expect me to believe, that Jose went and basically tried to get his old mentor fired, because, well, he just really wants United job?

And even if Jose actually was that much of a ****, which I don't believe - that Jose would be so dumb and leave a paper trail? Something that can be leaked?

The whole thing is some the most disgusting pile of horseshit I've seen from a sports media.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

But history backs up the fact that they will do well and we wont. Our clubs dont take the Europa seriously. Theirs do. They dont have all the extra games and strain like we do. We will put a **** team out, as will Liverpool probably. The Europa is primarily used to rotate the team, saving ther best for weekend. Only Spurs have to play a strong team really if they are to beat Fiorentina. When February comes and it time for the Europa, if Spurs are still in the top 4, maybe even 3rd by then, and have a comfortable gap to 5th, they will almost certainly prioritise the League over a Europa run.

Same with us if we are closing the gap to 4th, or if we are already in 4th by then. The league will take priority. So Europa league exits are imminent. The Italians take it seriously. Always have done. We dont. No reason to think otherwise.

Can't speak for Utd or Tottenham, but I'll be utterly shocked if we aren't all but full strength and taking it dead seriously again.

He's shown how important it is to him the groups.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Lol, did you guys see all this drama in the media about Mourinho allegedly writing a letter to United board with a repair plan?

Jesus Christ, the journos just have no shame anymore, do they? Mourinho and LVG are very old friends. Jose went on record countless times that he learned a lot while working with Van Gaal. LVG's wife knows Mou's wife. Their kids know each other.

Do these scumbags seriously expect me to believe, that Jose went and basically tried to get his old mentor fired, because, well, he just really wants United job?

And even if Jose actually was that much of a ****, which I don't believe - that Jose would be so dumb and leave a paper trail? Something that can be leaked?

The whole thing is some the most disgusting pile of horseshit I've seen from a sports media.

More deflating that it was a broadsheet who run it. The standard of British journalism really is at an all time low.

Mendez has completely laughed it off already.

 

[Equilibrio]

Lol, did you guys see all this drama in the media about Mourinho allegedly writing a letter to United board with a repair plan?

Jesus Christ, the journos just have no shame anymore, do they? Mourinho and LVG are very old friends. Jose went on record countless times that he learned a lot while working with Van Gaal. LVG's wife knows Mou's wife. Their kids know each other.

Do these scumbags seriously expect me to believe, that Jose went and basically tried to get his old mentor fired, because, well, he just really wants United job?

And even if Jose actually was that much of a ****, which I don't believe - that Jose would be so dumb and leave a paper trail? Something that can be leaked?

The whole thing is some the most disgusting pile of horseshit I've seen from a sports media.

I burst out laughing when I heard of that 'love letter' he might want the job, but the only time a manager writes a letter, it is to the fans or a farewell letter to everyone at the club, but in a world where Bale is thinking of returning to Spurs, anything can happen..