The Manchester United Thread

[zzeezzy]

Maguire vs Alderweireld feels like the Dier vs Matic debates from last summer. Let's hope we once again, get the superior foreign option.

Maguire makes more sense when paying that much on a player due to his age and his strengths match our weaknesses better. If we want someone to just defend solidly and not have any more to his game may swell stick with Lindelof and chuckle brothers as backup.

He's just had a good World Cup, was one of the better CB's last season in PL, I don't understand why people are disliking Maguire.

The price is ridiculous, but sooner pay it on someone for the next 10 years than someone who is not far off 30 already.

 

[RhQQ]

To be brutally honest, I'm a bit bored of signing players who "might be" great and be here for 10+ years. Jones & Smalling were supposed to be the Rio/Vidic, fast forward a few years they're now nicknamed "the chuckle brothers" - both were seriously rated at one point. Shaw & Depay was supposed to be our left hand equivalent of Neville/Beckham, and sorted for 10+ years.

United are in a financial position in which we're able to sign peak, world class players, ala Real Madrid. So let's just do it? Like the Sanchez signing, like the Matic signing. It is a sustainable cycle due to our financial privilege. If Maguire develops further in the next season or two, then we can talk about a world record CB fee for him, but it's very premature for that now. He's not even top 10 CB's in the league if we're being real about it.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

To be brutally honest, I'm a bit bored of signing players who "might be" great and be here for 10+ years. Jones & Smalling were supposed to be the Rio/Vidic, fast forward a few years they're now nicknamed "the chuckle brothers" - both were seriously rated at one point. Shaw & Depay was supposed to be our left hand equivalent of Neville/Beckham, and sorted for 10+ years.

United are in a financial position in which we're able to sign peak, world class players, ala Real Madrid. So let's just do it? Like the Sanchez signing, like the Matic signing. It is a sustainable cycle due to our financial privilege. If Maguire develops further in the next season or two, then we can talk about a world record CB fee for him, but it's very premature for that now. He's not even top 10 CB's in the league if we're being real about it.

Serious question but which 10 are better? You’ve mentioned Shaw, Jones, Smalling but tbh they have all been crocks. You mention Depay who was more interested about his cars and clothes than on field stuff.

Theres no no formula to transfers WC don’t mean success either Utd have there amount of WC duds in the past also.

 

[zzeezzy]

Matic was good last season, but don't think anyone can say with any confidence that Sanchez has done us more harm than good up till now when you consider how badly Martial has dropped off since.

I take your point about we are in a position to buy the best, but I think you're very harsh saying Maguire isn't in top 10 CB's. We can only go off last season and I'd say he easily was. Reason why we can't go further back is because he hasn't had many seasons in PL. Which I get is an issue in itself, but he has shown he can do it on the biggest stage of all, doesn't get any bigger than World Cup.

Going off last season I'd put him top 5 in PL.

 

[RhQQ]

Top 5?

Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Bailly, Van Dijk and Azpi are all unquestionably a level above. And imo, likes of Rudiger, Kompany (who would've been in the 'level above' category a season or two back, is still a fantastic, calculated CB), Otamendi, David Luiz and maybe a couple of others edge him comfortably.

He's a solid CB who is overrated because he's aggressive and English. Would I sign him? Sure, decent CB with some useful tools and an upgrade on Smalling. Would I pay a near world record fee for him and abandon signing Alderweireld as a result? **** no. That's just my opinion.

Same way I didn't want Dier over Matic or Fabinho last summer. The only English players I'd be going out of my way to sign would be Kane, Rose or Walker - because they're pretty much world class or borderline world class in their positions when fit & firing.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

Top 5?

Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Bailly, Van Dijk and Azpi are all unquestionably a level above. And imo, likes of Rudiger, Kompany (who would've been in the 'level above' category a season or two back, is still a fantastic, calculated CB), Otamendi, David Luiz and maybe a couple of others edge him.

He's a solid CB who is overrated because he's aggressive and English. Would I sign him? Sure, decent CB with some useful tools and an upgrade on Smalling. Would I pay a near world record fee for him and abandon signing Alderweireld as a result? **** no. That's just my opinion.

Same way I didn't want Dier over Matic or Fabinho last summer. The only English players I'd be going out of my way to sign would be Kane, Rose or Walker - because they're pretty much world class or borderline world class in their positions when fit & firing.

Bailly after 1 good season? Azpi is a FB/WB. Kompany cant play and not to any constant level now. Rudiger has been up and down like a yo yo at Chelsea! I’d give you Toby, Vert, Van, Ota but non of the rest. Rose and Walker WC! :O

 

[zzeezzy]

A lot of those you mentioned are error prone, Otamendi and David Luis wouldn't trust them to run a bath! Decent with their feet, but always exposed when defending... problem is with Pep they don't defend hardly, so it doesn't matter. Just look at Argentina in recent World Cup.

 

[Theatre of Dreams83]

If it was up to me I would just flog off Smalling, Jones, Rojo and bring in both Toby and Maguire

 

[wkdsoul]

Azpi hasnt been a FB for about 3 yrs now.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

I’d take Lescelles over Maguire any day of the week personally if you’re talking available English CH’s.

But I didn’t come to add to that. Just to correct z that the CL P all over the WC and has done for years now. Nothing is bigger than that.

 

[zzeezzy]

I’d take Lescelles over Maguire any day of the week personally if you’re talking available English CH’s.

But I didn’t come to add to that. Just to correct z that the CL P all over the WC and has done for years now. Nothing is bigger than that.

Fancy a Liverpool fan saying that aye? You lot don't ****** watch the WC mainly so a bit bias.

World Cup is biggest event in football still, this event far outshined this seasons CL overall.

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Fancy such a stereotypical B/S response coming from you z.

Knock me down with a feather .....

 

[zzeezzy]

Fancy such a stereotypical B/S response coming from you z.

Knock me down with a feather .....

Why did you even say it... everyone knows your opinion on WC and CL already.

But I digress, regardless of whether Azpilicueta is a CB now or not, who the **** would trust him more in a 2 man CB pair than Maguire? In a 3 at the back possibly he's decent, but not much use as a CB for any other system.

 

[RhQQ]

Bailly after 1 good season? Azpi is a FB/WB. Kompany cant play and not to any constant level now. Rudiger has been up and down like a yo yo at Chelsea! I’d give you Toby, Vert, Van, Ota but non of the rest. Rose and Walker WC! :O

Bailly is unquestionably better lmao. One of the most talented CB's in world football, rare skillset that only he, Varane and Koulibaly has (off the top of my head). Two CB's excellent tacklers & unbelievable athletes - obscene recovery pace. Each of them would excel in a Tony Pulis deep block or a Jurgen Klopp high line.

Rudiger was fantastic last season after he got settled in, and for Roma the season before (football does exist outside of England ). I'm sure most Chelsea heads would back me up on that.

And well in regards to Walker & Rose, they're both top 5 in their respective positions in world football, and are both the best in the PL when fit & firing, so I'd say they're definitely "border-line" world class? (Don't run away with what I said mate)

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Apparently not z as you’ve decided to take me not doing England, which a lot of Utd Mancunians don’t either come to that, and extrapolate that to me not liking the WC and Liverpool fans having no interest.

The CL dwarfs the WC in every respect (quality, viewing figures, financially et all. No bigger one off sporting event the planet than the CL Final) and has done for years. Now this was a really good WC for once. (The best since ‘82/ ‘86 for me.). But it still doesn’t alter the fact that it’s fallen WELL behind the CL the last 2 decades and more.

 

[zzeezzy]

Why are Rose, Walker, Azpilicueta even realistically in a CB debate when it comes to a Jose system? It's very unlikely we'll be playing 3 at the back, even if we do Walker and Azpi get exposed positionally/aerially.

 

[RhQQ]

I loved what England done in the World Cup, they were a breath of fresh air, but can we not act like beating Tunisia, Panama, dragged to pens by Colombia and beating a sub-par Sweden was anything out of the ordinary? Maguire had a decent, 6/10 tournament (what did he have to do?) which is acted like it was a 10/10 because of a few goals on top. But if I speak, I am in big trouble.

 

[wkdsoul]

CL wished it got the viewing figures and money of the WC. The generate about 25% of what the WC does.

 

[RhQQ]

Why are Rose, Walker, Azpilicueta even realistically in a CB debate when it comes to a Jose system? It's very unlikely we'll be playing 3 at the back, even if we do Walker and Azpi get exposed positionally/aerially.

What are you talking about lol

I said the only English players worth signing for a big fee are Harry Kane, Danny Rose & Kyle Walker. Let's not spin it into saying I want to play Rose or Walker at centre half

 

[Scouseinthehouse]

Bang on Rh.

They looked solid and defended sound against big grocks. As soon as they came up against Colombia and Croatia, with lads who had more about them with movement and intelligence at speed, they all got badly exposed back there.

Stones is twice the player Maguire will ever be and even he struggled as the class of opponent went up.